Trail permit sales down 35%

[polarisrider1]

HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE 5-5-2012 EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING.

MSA trail permit sales for last season appear to be 35% lower than last year. DNR trail permit sales are expected to be down by the same amount. The reduced sales will mean less dollars for trail maintenance and groomer replacements this upcoming year.

MSA has completed the move into the new office owed by MSEAF and the staff is working on unpacking and organization. Several people have stopped by to say hello. A donation of a front sign board and lettering was made by an MSA member. There are several maintenance projects still to be performed.

 

[Dave_B]

She-hit for snow will do that!! But what do I know!

Not to mention the MSA has almost zero presence to the general public!

How many of their board members are members of this site? Never seen a one!

They need to get there She-hit together as far as I'm concerned! Oh, I am a member of MSA and have a corporate membership in our local club in the UP. I do what I can to help in the off season with my limited visits up there. What do they do for actual hands on work??

Think about it. The number one Michigan snowmoblile site, and the MSA President isn't even a member???

Get on another board, Wayne!

 

[whitedust]

This alarmed me too since only rideable midwest snow was northern WI & UP. UP & Vilas,WI was packed every weekend to the point traffic tore up the trails & burned down conditions quickly. Resorts had a great year but trail permits down 35% was very surprising. What happens when snow is wide spread thruout the midwest?? People will ride close to home if they can. Down 35% is huge for UPMI & some questions need to be asked & answered before next season to prevent a lean snomo resort winter. If I owned a UPMI snomo biz I would be very concerned. 35% less trail permits = 35% less riders that are in MI riding trails & spending money. Why??

 

[Admin]

35% less trail permits = 35% less riders that are in MI riding trails & spending money.

Not necessarily true. Not all trail permits are bought by riders spending equal time in MI. For one, some MI permits are bought to ride the lower too, not the UP. Snow stunk there all season. Some permits are bought by folks that make many trips to the UP a season, some by folks that make just one. My guess is the drop off is most likely to be with those that make just one trip. Thus the visitor day drop is less impacted by the one-trippers.

Talking to quite a few of the businesses in my area, they all had a very good season with snowmobilers, some the best ever. Trail counter in Twin Lakes also had its second busiest count off all time (second to season of 2007).

Not saying that a 35% drop in trail permits sold is not a concern that should be addressed, just saying the math is not that simple. The only thing a 35% drop in trail permits means- for sure- is a 35% drop in trail permits sold.

I still think a weekend or 3 day pass at something like $15 would be a great idea. $45 is a lot of money for folks not planning a long trip or to make several trips. MSA needs to get on the ball with that one in my opinion.

Also agree that when there is snow elsewhere closer to home, folks will stay home to ride. That happened in 09, 10 and 11.

-John

 

[polarisrider1]

She-hit for snow will do that!! But what do I know!

Not to mention the MSA has almost zero presence to the general public!

How many of their board members are members of this site? Never seen a one!

They need to get there She-hit together as far as I'm concerned! Oh, I am a member of MSA and have a corporate membership in our local club in the UP. I do what I can to help in the off season with my limited visits up there. What do they do for actual hands on work??

Think about it. The number one Michigan snowmoblile site, and the MSA President isn't even a member???

Get on another board, Wayne!

Who took a dump on your oatmeal? JDee is not as big as you think. Shooting the messenger makes you look the fool. Bashing MSA??? what's your point?

 

[Dave_B]

I meant to get on the MSA Board oatmeal boy.

Not bashing, speaking reality.

Didn't mean to sink your dingy!

 

[polarisrider1]

I meant to get on the MSA Board oatmeal boy.

Not bashing, speaking reality.

Didn't mean to sink your dingy!

I feel your love.

 

[Dave_B]

Keep your hands to yourself carpal tunnel boy!

 

[polarisrider1]

John, I am all for a 3 day pass. Good idea, but needs to be for all riders not just out of staters. I bought permits for 4 states and Canada this past season. Rode MI about 100 miles total. I could of skipped it as many did and saved the $45. But I rolled the dice and took a chance. 90% of my MI riding is in the LP. Permits are a necessary evil. With less funding for next year it won't surprise me from all the anticipated whinning. MSA is what we make it. It is our state club that fights for our trail system. MSA is made up of mostly all volunteers. They (us) who are members are on JDee. Not sure what Dave B. expects, he needs to make the meetings maybe??? The trails are what we make them. Yes the riders, not just some older guys with a passion for the sport. Anyone can be an arm chair critic.

 

[Dave_B]

I don't expect much. I just think that the MSA should have a better line of communication with those arm chair critics you speak of. You know me and you know I am dedicated to the sport here in Michigan. Attending meetings doesn't make our commitment to the sport any more significant and members on the site is totally different than BOARD members on the site interacting with us who make the whole thing possible.

The trails are what we make them and we have on of the best clubs in the UP as far as I'm concerned and I mean no disrespect to the other clubs at all!

Permit sales down by 35% is for one reason. No snow. Not even John can cure that!

Wasn't trying to start a war, just trying to speak from a different angle.

Dave

 

[polarisrider1]

http://www.msaforums.com/forums/index.php?act=idx check this out.

 

[Dave_B]

That's my point Wayne. 597 members. I'm sure there are great posts on there but the exposure, or lack of it, is my point.

 

[rv245]

Permit sales down by 35% is for one reason. No snow.

ding, ding, ding.... we have a winner!!!!!!!

I have 3 sleds that I normally buy trail permits for. This year all 3 sleds seen ZERO miles. Not even one trip or ride even around the yard. I don't buy my trail permits until we are on the road and as such purchased no permits. The snow sucked big time for most of us. Those that can go at the spur of the moment or have weekends off faired much better than others.

 

[polarismike]

I guess time will tell as far as the reasons for decreased sales. How much of it was the economy? How many people got out of sledding? How much of it was poor snow year? Maybe some of it was the fee increase? Will have to see what next year brings. I picked up my permit at snow show in October last year. Plan to do the same this year. Did not get as much riding in as I wanted though. Hope next year will be better, but you still have to support the cause.

I do agree that some sort of temporary permit like a week-long permit would be a good idea for families that are just planning one trip per year. The die-hards will still buy the season permit.

 

[Hoosier]

I ride with 2 different groups (who sometimes all ride together). One of the groups is myself and two friends. We go on at least one trip north each year. This year, there was no snow the dates we picked so we went to Wyoming instead. So there was 3 trailer permits lost due to snow. We will be back next year (algore willing).

The other group I ride with is a group comprised of two extended families. During Christmas break, one of the families brings out all the old sleds to ride for a few days out of a cabin north of Eagle River. Most years, there are 4 - 5 sleds that are only driven during this time. Most years, Michigan trail permits are purchased for every one of these sleds, as they cross the border and ride in Michigan 2 or 3 days. This year, because of the price increase, these sleds stayed in Wisconsin. So there was probably 4 trail permits lost due to the price increase. Personally, $45 is ok with me, but it is not for them (which is fine, because it is their money).

Based on these two examples, I think there a lot of people in both camps - people that never got out last year due to conditions, and those one-long weekend riders who didn't think the $45 was worth the cost and chose to ride elsewhere. Conditions will improve, but IMO the MSA has to consider a shorter-term permit. I think either a 3 or 5 permit would be appropriate. If you are riding 2 different weekends or can get out more than 5 days in a row, I don't think the $45 is an issue. But if you are out 2 or 3 days, probably riding 100 or so miles a day, then yeah, that's a significant amount of money.

I will add that before the season, I thought the increase to $45 was no big deal and didn't understand the complaining. I've changed my mind. The people I've talked to are upset about it, as the price has increased every year (in their minds at least). I now think their concerns could be addressed by (1) a short-term permit and (2) more awareness of what the funds are going to (MSA should post on all major sites to keep awareness up as to what they do).

 

[xcr440]

Permit sales down by 35% is for one reason. No snow. Not even John can cure that!

X3

I guess time will tell as far as the reasons for decreased sales. How much of it was the economy? How many people got out of sledding? How much of it was poor snow year? Maybe some of it was the fee increase?

When it snows, people buy snowmobiles, when it doesn't, they don't. This has been proven for YEARS.

 

[whitedust]

I ride with 2 different groups (who sometimes all ride together). One of the groups is myself and two friends. We go on at least one trip north each year. This year, there was no snow the dates we picked so we went to Wyoming instead. So there was 3 trailer permits lost due to snow. We will be back next year (algore willing).

The other group I ride with is a group comprised of two extended families. During Christmas break, one of the families brings out all the old sleds to ride for a few days out of a cabin north of Eagle River. Most years, there are 4 - 5 sleds that are only driven during this time. Most years, Michigan trail permits are purchased for every one of these sleds, as they cross the border and ride in Michigan 2 or 3 days. This year, because of the price increase, these sleds stayed in Wisconsin. So there was probably 4 trail permits lost due to the price increase. Personally, $45 is ok with me, but it is not for them (which is fine, because it is their money).

Based on these two examples, I think there a lot of people in both camps - people that never got out last year due to conditions, and those one-long weekend riders who didn't think the $45 was worth the cost and chose to ride elsewhere. Conditions will improve, but IMO the MSA has to consider a shorter-term permit. I think either a 3 or 5 permit would be appropriate. If you are riding 2 different weekends or can get out more than 5 days in a row, I don't think the $45 is an issue. But if you are out 2 or 3 days, probably riding 100 or so miles a day, then yeah, that's a significant amount of money.

I will add that before the season, I thought the increase to $45 was no big deal and didn't understand the complaining. I've changed my mind. The people I've talked to are upset about it, as the price has increased every year (in their minds at least). I now think their concerns could be addressed by (1) a short-term permit and (2) more awareness of what the funds are going to (MSA should post on all major sites to keep awareness up as to what they do).

Yep living & riding Phelps,WI I buy MI Trail permit no problem & probably = use in WI & MI. I do agree the old iron hangs in Eagle River & most of Vilas county flat well groomed twistys since the area only had problem with 1 big snow in March that produced trail moguls which was torture for old sled riders. As soon as you head north of Lando you see many new sleds headed north on Trail 3 with tech that can handle the high speed sweepers & big bumps at speed. Gas up at the Lando BP head east on 6 & you pull up on family after family riding old iron in the Twistys. Perhaps an inexpensive 3 day trail permit would appeal to them to venture north at least to BC or so for the day & loop that area. $45 is too much for limted riding in MI for large families & they stay in WI at least this is what they say since the MI trail price increase.

 

[favoritos]

Surprising.

Traffic was a lot busier in the "special area" when we were up there this year. Sales of permits must be related to other areas that did not get the snow.

It was almost insanely busy sometimes.

 

[tomx]

Several Wisconsin riders I know said they did not buy an MI permit due to the increase in price. I'll bet they're not the only ones who feel this way. Could have contributed to the decreased sales, but as others have said time will tell.

 

[xcr440]

You guys suggesting a 3 day permit, how would they, or better yet, how COULD they enforce that? Different colors every weekend? How many colors would they need? Are they going to stop everyone to check dates on a pass if they don't use different colors every weekend? How many additional DNR boys would they need, and in how many different places?

I just don't believe it is a viable option. Sounds like a real PITA if you ask me.