Trespassing

eao

Active member
This was in the recent MiTRALE newsletter and I thought it worth sharing..

From The Desk of a Michigan Conservation Officer
The ORV Trespass Problem
One of the largest complaints related to ORV use in the state of Michigan has to do with trespassing. Whether accidental or intentional, law enforcement across the state has spent countless hours responding and following up on ORVs illegally operating upon lands of another person.
When the current ORV Act was written in 1995, there were multiple parts of the statute that were put in place to curb trespassing behavior. The law is unlike any trespassing law in Michigan. It requires the operator to possess written permission if they are on lands of another. Further, if a property owner confronts the operator and asks you stop and identify yourself - the operator is legally bound to do so. Failing to comply with either law is an arrestable 90-day misdemeanor in Michigan. It should be noted that there is no requirement that law enforcement provide a warning, nor is there anything requiring the property owner to post or fence the property. The responsibility is on the rider to know exactly where they are, at all times.
With the ORV sport booming, more and more people are buying machines and heading out to ride. If you’re over 16 years of age, nothing in the state requires you to take an ORV Safety Course, so it’s up to the new user to take the initiative to learn the laws and where to ride on their own. I would be willing to bet not many do.
During my time as a conservation officer in the northern lower peninsula, I’ve responded to more ORV trespass complaints than any other complaint involving the sport. I’m reminded of a spot along a state designated ORV route that is owned by an individual plagued with constant ORV and snowmobile trespass issues. From the state trail you can see a sandy hill on his property that has significant erosion issues because of ORVs. The property is posted as private property and has no trespassing signs conspicuously placed along the perimeter. The owner has taken the effort to bulldoze a berm and place stumps parallel to the trail to keep machines out. No matter what he did, people still took it upon themselves to leave the trail and climb the hill. In an effort to help him, I personally went out and pounded in the red crinite signs that the state uses that say “No ORVs” in an effort to support him with state signage. The signs didn’t make it through the first weekend before they came up missing.
While working the Saturday of Memorial weekend one year, I ended up conducting surveillance in the afternoon to enforce trespass at the site. In an hour I wrote over ten tickets – this was only writing the lead operator of the groups that trespassed. People were mad at me when they found out they were receiving a ticket. I vividly remember one gentleman telling me that if the person didn’t want anyone on his property, then he should fence it and place barbed wire on top-an illogical proposal when the property owner has 120 acres of wooded land. The notable thing is that during that hour working the site, not a single group passed by without stopping to climb the hill.
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It seems we have a societal change in mentality when it comes to the sport of recreation. To me, trespassing on land that does not belong to you is one of the most egregious things you can do as a sportsman. It shows a complete lack of respect for what others have worked for and earned in their life. Without a doubt the ORV laws can be confusing when it comes to where you can ride in relation to trails, county roads, forest roads, etc. There should be nothing confusing about operating on someone’s property though. It should go without saying to not leave the designated trail system unless you know for a fact that you are allowed to operate there.
I would urge every instructor to push the importance of ORV trespass in their classes. Let the new riders know how strict the law is and that they are liable for any damage that occurs if they operate on someone else’s property without permission. If you are not a property owner with this problem or a law enforcement officer responding to the complaint, most people have no idea how prevalent this problem is. We must take every opportunity to influence riding behavior before more restrictions are placed on the sport.
Cpl. Mike Hearn
 

wiscrev

Well-known member
I heartily agree. Thank you. I don't have that problem, as a property owner, but I do recreate [snowmobile], and whether it is by sled or orv, sxs, it ruins the sport. If nothing is done, soon there won't be any trails. Respect has gone right out the door in this age.
 

mrbb

Well-known member
as a land owner I can tell you,. his example is more the norm than the not,. when you own land near trail systems or area's where folks ride ATV's.UTV's MX bikes and so on
the amount of folks that just SEE tracks from others, seem to just assume that means its OK to also ride there, having NO clue if its private land or not, most don;t even care to learn, they just go where they want
when you confront them, most will admit they don't know if there allowed to, or will get aggressive and say they have every right to, and try and blame the land owner for some how not telling them in advance.!
posted signs seldom work as this, INFORMING them, deal too by the way! as apparently reading and comprehending what is read, doesn;t seem to register with mind sets much today, and don't care if there 10 yrs old or 80 yrs old, or what profession they work in!

the property I had the biggest problem on, actually had a posted sign every 20 to 30 ft around its 2 mile border
everyone I caught over the yrs , and that included current game wardens, fish wardens, a variety of law enforcement people, grand parents with there kids and grand kids!
in groups or single riders
I caught them all and not a one admitted they DIDN:T See a trespassing sign(minus the fish warden he TRIED to tell me he didn;t,
then when asked to show me where he crossed property line there wasn't a sign or several he could see, he back tracked and admitted he DID SEE THEM< but figured the owner just wouldnl;t care about HIM trespassing! HUMM entitlement at its best I guess??

the real problem IMO< on this topic minus the modern mind set issue is, the FINES and punishments are a JOKE to far too many, then IF your lucky enough to caught them, the process of getting folks fines and punished is not very easy to do, heck just getting law enforcement involved is hard, to get them to show up when there trespassing even harder!
as honestly far too many folks in law enforcement don;t seem to think trespassing is that big a deal
here in PA for an example, , when I call in for help for trespassing(lots of time in hunting season) I'll call the game commission, they have 100% full law enforcement authority same as ANY law enforcement agency in the state, as a FACT they have the HIGHEST powers of any in the state of PA.
EVEN if these trespassing hunters have KILLED Something, they will tell em to call the local police! as trespassing isn;t there thing, and don;t enforce it!
call local police and they will tell you to call the STATE police,
the state police will typically tell me to call the game warden, a big circle of NO help!
as to all of them,,they know the costs to enforce things far out weight the fines they MIGHT get if caught and punished, and the sad part is, they also know MOST land owners don't follow thru with punishments thru the legal system, it typically ends up costing the land owner more money and time, than the trespassers get in a fine if even any!

SO< this is the bigger problem IMO, if folks have no worrier about fines or punishment and know the local law enforcement don't seem to care all that much, and the laws are so weak!
there isn't a whole lot of deterrent from folks trespassing at will!
this game they play, there winning, that is until enough trails close to harm them, but by them things will be way too far gone to help

most ALL states IMO< need to adjust there fines and punishments on most ALL crimes, not just trespassing
the average income of the average person has changed a LOT since most of these fines were set, and to the folks with deep pockets, small fines mean nothing to them! if were honest!
me personally, I think fines should be based on a person NET income, from a prior tax return, hit them with a 5% of income fine or even 10% , and you'll soon see a different mind set! and more parents teaching there kids better, if kids under 18 the parents still get the fine!
like it or not the mighty dollar rules the world, make things have a costs most won't want to pay, and mind sets will follow FAST!
IMO!
 

WorkHardPlayHrd

Active member
If people grew up with my one neighbor as their neighbor, they would never trespass. The guy had spikes to flatten your tires,, and bear traps for anyone stupid enough to ignore his signs and hike in. After a few incidents no one would cross his property line. His signs that he had costum made were; "This is my land, I fought for this country for the right to own this land! If you trespass on my land I will go to war with you to." Back then the police and game warden took his part.

He wasn't unreasonable. If someone wounded a deer, and had proof that it happened on their property but crossed into his, he would happily help you avoid his traps and put the animal out of it's misery. Then he would help you carry it out. Just had to be by the book. Then it was OK.

If that land owner went and sunk spikes on the other side of his berm and blew out tires he would get sued. And likely the wrongdoer would win.
 

mrbb

Well-known member
If people grew up with my one neighbor as their neighbor, they would never trespass. The guy had spikes to flatten your tires,, and bear traps for anyone stupid enough to ignore his signs and hike in. After a few incidents no one would cross his property line. His signs that he had costum made were; "This is my land, I fought for this country for the right to own this land! If you trespass on my land I will go to war with you to." Back then the police and game warden took his part.

He wasn't unreasonable. If someone wounded a deer, and had proof that it happened on their property but crossed into his, he would happily help you avoid his traps and put the animal out of it's misery. Then he would help you carry it out. Just had to be by the book. Then it was OK.

If that land owner went and sunk spikes on the other side of his berm and blew out tires he would get sued. And likely the wrongdoer would win.
its illegal to place BOBBIE traps on your own land, so , doing anything like spikes or a bear trap, would for sure get you in trouble, , arrested and possibly in jail, for attempted murder if a kid or person got into a trap
add in having the signs he had, that would be worse for him as they would call it premeditated and planned to do harm!
its a screwed up world we live in where you own land is not something you can really defend , and today's trespassing laws are weak in most states!
and on a side note, I once read where, a person had large dogs, so they placed a sign saying beware of dogs
someone ended up on there land and got bite, and were sued,
the dog owner LOST< due to the fact he KNEW his dogs were dangerous, by placing the sign's, it proved he knew so!

the right lawyer can spin most things to favor those with the deepest pockets too IMO<
so be careful what you post about your property!
and kinda of sad that when is CAUGHT trespassing, is somehow the land owners fault, for not having the borders marked well enough for them to know its not THERE land to be on!!

It seems people just don't have to be responsible for one's actions (or where there at) when it comes to trespassing in most states!
 
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