triple points VS doolies

[whitedust]

I've got a 12 polaris IQ 550 fan. Stock skis no studs, 121, 1"lugs. Aggresive Trail riding is the norm, BIG MILES. I like to play off trail but harder to find these days. And this sled is under powered for deep powder. Usually very fast in corners and throwing the back end out to accelerate out of the corner. I'm usually chasing 14/15 800 switchback pro s or 800 assaults is what the crew i ride with most times. Ride it HARD even on rough trails, since the suspension travel I have on this compared to my 97 indy I'm not riding a bull anymore. I know it doesnt compare to the pro- xc suspension, but its such an upgrade for me I give it all its got.
Scott didn't take my order, a gal answered the phone. So no conversation on riding style. She asked if I was easy in corners or into taking them hard, so she suggested to go with 8's since i corner hard and fast.

For a 550 fan no studs 1" track 12" of carbide is very problematic. I'm surprised none of your buds said anything as gas mileage must have been poor as well for a 550 fan & what a chore to steer all that carbide on a big mile day. 12" of carbide is going to follow any rut in the trail & imo would be only used on a hyper performance many studded trail banger sled that can push all that carbide thru groomed trail conditions. Studs & no studs can make a huge difference in carbide selection as traction products can over power short carbides but you don't have studs so not a consideration. You are an aggressive rider so with that in mind up to 6" of any carbide design should perform well for you. Certainly nothing longer than 6"on a 550 fan no matter how hard you ride. It would be best to use 1 set of skis & tune your sled to that front end performance. Only reason to change skis would be if you want better floatation off trail with a powder ski. After you install new carbides tune your sled by the center shock adjustment harder setting softer pressure on front skis, softer setting & more pressure on front skis. I would not draw the limiter strap in as you need all the travel you can get but easy to do if you still want more pressure up front.

As Gary said Scott will exchange the 8" carbides for 4" or 6" triple points and make sure you talk to him about best carbide recommendation. The 12" of carbide is causing your darting problem and is 2x the maximum of what you need. If still darting after reducing carbides tweak your front end adjustments as listed above and all will be good. Let us know what Scott says and how it all evolves. Good luck!

 

[G]

You don't need 12 inches of carbide on a 550 IQ with a 1 inch track and no studs. Even if you had an inch and 1/4 ripsaw with 192 studs you would not need 12 inches of carbide on a 550 IQ. Put 6 inches on it and get some weight off the skis and that is all you need. Shim whatever carbide you use and you will be fine.

 

[sweeperguy]

Thanks for all the input. I didn't know carbide length would impact handling so much. On ice sure, but on trail I was under the impression the skags (host bar) and the keel of the ski, were the handling factor, thought the carbide just protected the bar when on pavement, and longer carbide for longer life. Only rode these 12's one good ride and one short, didn't get around to tweaking ski pressure by adjusting track shock yet.
Grub, you said to shim whatever carbide I use. Are you meaning to shim under the rubber on the ski? Or is there another shim technique I don't know.

 

[whitedust]

Yep talking about shimming at ski rubber which allows your carbide to run flat to snow instead of wearing down in front. Wear rod host bars are not hard and wear quickly but shimming makes the ski travel on the carbide not the host bar. If wearing host bar instead of carbide the ski is tillted forward causing the wear and/or you have way way too much front ski pressure which also will cause hard steering & darting. You will like 6 inchers max once you get the sled adjusted & set up correctly. Any set up is better than 12 inch carbides even doolies will be a holiday after 12".

 

[sweeperguy]

This is going to sound dumb as h.ll, Went to Wi. Late season last year, Had checked wear bars, should have been okay, maybe I didn't look well enough think the carbides must have come out of host bar. Wore completely through the bars, actually wore off about an 1/8 inch or 1/4" off the plastic skis. Late season lots of shoulder and asphalt running to get trail to trail. Gas etc. I feel really dumb, NEVER in all my years of riding ever wore through skags.

Anyway found the wear on ski is totally square and flat to the ski. Left ski a little more wear than right, but very even front to back. Must be perfectly flat on the ground. With this in mind, would you still use shims? I did spend time trying to get setup right when new in March of 14, think I nailed it.

 

[G]

Thanks for all the input. I didn't know carbide length would impact handling so much. On ice sure, but on trail I was under the impression the skags (host bar) and the keel of the ski, were the handling factor, thought the carbide just protected the bar when on pavement, and longer carbide for longer life. Only rode these 12's one good ride and one short, didn't get around to tweaking ski pressure by adjusting track shock yet.
Grub, you said to shim whatever carbide I use. Are you meaning to shim under the rubber on the ski? Or is there another shim technique I don't know.

If you have a few miles on your present carbides like you do it is easy to figure out how to shim your skis. Get your sled off the ground and check to see which end of your carbides are wearing more - the front or the back. You are going to want to shim the front or the back of the rubber stopper to even out the wear. That is what you want. Even wear. Make sure your rubber stoppers are not completely destroyed or ripped or cracked or otherwise crappy. You are going to use little metal screws to hold your shims in place and they have to hold on to the rubber stoppers so they have to be not too bad. They are cheap anyway if you have to buy new. Go and find some 1/8 aluminum flat stock as wide as your rubber stoppers are. Aluminum because it won't rust and look like crap. If the back of the carbide is wearing put your shim in front of the spindle to force the front of the ski down. Vice-versa if the front is wearing faster. Secure the aluminum to the bottom of the rubber stop with 1/4 inch flat headed aluminum screws. (You have to take the skis off to do this if you haven't figure that out yet) If you are anal you can countersink them in the aluminum stock. It is possible to do this process to the ski saddle itself. It really doesn't make any difference. You are going for even wear along the whole length of the carbide no matter how long/short carbide you use.
The manufacturers have engineered whatever sled you buy as a kind of one size fits all initial set-up. They have no idea how the consumer intends to use the sled. They don't know how much the consumer weighs. They don't know if they are selling it to a speed demon or a really sedate rider. That is why all factory delivered sled have crap for front wear bars. I'm sure they work just fine for some folks but are not that aggressive and most folks will want to try something else. Also spindle angles are engineered to satisfy many applications. Ease of steering, bump steering, and clearing other moving control arms and such. Again, one size fits all.
If you have 12 inches of carbide installed you don't necessarily have 12 inches of carbide biting unless it is all hitting the snow evenly. That is what you are trying to accomplish. Try 1/8 shim for a few miles and check to see how it affects wear. And how it feels to you. Maybe you would want to ad another 1/8 shim. I have found that a rearward wear pattern just about always causes worse darting. I think that is because the whole front of the ski has time to hunt for a groove before it hits the cutting part of the carbide. If anything I try to have just a slight bit more pressure on the leading edge of the carbide. It works for me anyway. Every sled is different. The better you get the skis the less you have to screw around with the rear suspension front shock pressure. I like to leave that alone so it can function as it was intended from the factory. The only time you should really have to play with that is if you are really heavy or really light. That is if your skis are shimmed correctly. I hope this I have explained this in such a way that it makes sense to you. Good luck.

 

[G]

This is going to sound dumb as h.ll, Went to Wi. Late season last year, Had checked wear bars, should have been okay, maybe I didn't look well enough think the carbides must have come out of host bar. Wore completely through the bars, actually wore off about an 1/8 inch or 1/4" off the plastic skis. Late season lots of shoulder and asphalt running to get trail to trail. Gas etc. I feel really dumb, NEVER in all my years of riding ever wore through skags.

Anyway found the wear on ski is totally square and flat to the ski. Left ski a little more wear than right, but very even front to back. Must be perfectly flat on the ground. With this in mind, would you still use shims? I did spend time trying to get setup right when new in March of 14, think I nailed it.

If you are the same front to back you are OK. Leave it alone. If you wore out your stock skis in Wisconsin check out some aftermarket skis if you plan to replace skis. Your left ski wore more because it probably caught less snow than the right ski. Typical of shoulder running. Normal.

 

[sweeperguy]

If you are the same front to back you are OK. Leave it alone. If you wore out your stock skis in Wisconsin check out some aftermarket skis if you plan to replace skis. Your left ski wore more because it probably caught less snow than the right ski. Typical of shoulder running. Normal.

Was looking at aftermarket skis, but being as cheap as i am, found a pair of rush skis with like 800 miles on them when he replaced them with C&A skis no wear or damage to plastic. $125 sounded like to good of deal to pass on.

 

[whitedust]

If you are the same front to back you are OK. Leave it alone. If you wore out your stock skis in Wisconsin check out some aftermarket skis if you plan to replace skis. Your left ski wore more because it probably caught less snow than the right ski. Typical of shoulder running. Normal.

Agree with Grub but if you ran carbides thru you really had crap conditions or way too much front skis pressure. The 8" triple points come with shims & ski savers and the ski savers would have saved your skis. 8" still too much for your application but up to you. I used 8" triple points on Apex XTX with 144 ice ripper at 165 ish HP and had a little push as the carbides wore but still got 5000+ miles out of them & I have to run 10 miles RT on snow covered roads everytime I ride. Scott thought 6" would have been aok for me so like I said he is conservative & you are usinng too much carbide imo. Good luck with adjustments.

 

[mjkaliszak]

Well here goes my .02....
I run Berg's and have no problem spending the money for them. In fact I know of know other manufacturer of anything.... that sells a product that is nearly impossible to wear out ! I have sold sleds w/ TP's that had 5k & 6500 miles and although they were not brand new.... still had a decent amount of life in them.
When it comes to the Woody's doolies.... I would not run those, we ( our group ) and some close friends have caught those freezing up in between the bars, several years ago. We attribute it to the ever changing conditions of the snow & trails throughout the day. Once they pack the snow between the bars it may freeze solid and at that point the steering control goes " south ".
I would also like to add the Studboys Duece into the mix.... that would be a better choice, no problems we have ever seen since the runners are closer together . Even the Shaper bar is pretty robust.

All in all... the Berg's are #1 in this camp.

( JIMO )