UP is having hard time surviving??

Dave_B

Active member
I read that article yesterday. I really didn't think the stats were that much of a surprise. I think in Michigan, not just the UP, the same thing applies. People are leaving for greener grass. I have several friends down here who have left. I think that, being the UP, each sole counts that much more as the population is so much more sparce and each of those leaving has a more profound impact in the community they reside in.

Look at the other areas. Marquette for example. Not one comment was made on the incredible expansion that has gone on there in the past 10 years. Walmart, Gander Mountain, Target even Red Lobster for crying out loud! Eventually those that live there now will migrate out into the smaller communities and the cycle will begin again.

In a nutshell, I think it was much to do about not much. Just a sign of the current times everywhere.

Dave
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
I noticed this in the article:

Some hope for a revival of the mining industry that created prosperity a century and more ago. A nickel mine is under construction in Marquette County but has drawn protests and lawsuits from environmentalists.



In my view, the UP will need to rely on its natural resources for job growth - logging, mining, etc. Perhaps that world is behind us now, but if not the tree-huggers are going to be an issue. I don't see the UP becoming a leader in manufacturing, as most growth in manufacturing is going on in states where it is less expensive to operate a business, both in costs of regulations and labor. Plus, it probably doesn't have the best location for that either (not really located on the major interstates).

Tourism can serve a role, but I've never seen tourism as a big job creator, at least for career-type jobs that support a family.

Perhaps it will always continue to be a place to live for people who are small-business minded and willing to do whatever it takes to make ends meet, and for those who value the way of life more than the financial rewards they can strive for elsewhere.

All of this is just an opinion, not trying to start a debate.
 

yamahauler

Active member
One thing I find interesting is when I was a kid in the 80's and early 90's I never really thought of going to the UP. We grew up snowmobiling a lot and only went up to the UP one time and that was to visit a family friend. I didn't see the UP really take off with tourism stuff until about the 2000's, is that what everyone else noticed? Or am I just too young to remember the older days?

Anyway, my point being that if not that many people are going up there, it may fall back into the place less traveled for some time and then something will happen and it will ramp back up to the place to be. The only thing that sucks is the hurt it puts on the people up there that really on tourism to make a living.

Just a side note. I do plan on taking my family up there when I can so I'm not leaving, lol.
 
I didn't hesitiate to go away for college and still live out of state. Once you start your worklife elsewhere you eventually start a family and get established it would be a big life change to go back.

I consider myself lucky to have grown up in the Copper Country where the influence of Michigan Tech results in more opportunities as a wider variety of people move in and out of the area plus the facilities etc.

I place a high value on the natural beauty of the UP and return regularly, now with recreational property. I often wonder what life would be like if I had stayed and tried to eek out a living. I have no regrets as I am close enough to drive to the UP after a day of work and spend the weekend when I want.

I'm interested in what is to become of the UP but don't have a solid idea of what the next 30 years will bring. When I look back 30 years it's a bit sad that so much land has been posted and closed off. Growing up the vast majority of land was company land (mining or lumber or paper) or state or federal and we were free to roam wherever. This included miles of beaches, lakes for fishing etc. The mentality is changing as evidenced when a new house goes up and a beach is closed off at the property line, trails are blocked and such. Even areas like Brockway Mountain are currently in jeopardy.

The economy of the UP is also evolving. What gets me is that there are many natural assets going for the area that are tough to capitalize on right now. Looking worldwide and in the US southwest clean water is of great value. In 50 or 100 years the water could translate into an influx people and business into Michigan but the trouble is people need to get by now. I also suspect the growing season will be longer in 100 years.

I'm really starting to ramble but basically the UP will get by. Desperation across the state will have Lansing looking to sell and exploit the state land but over time things will even out. Expensive gas puts the pinch on the travel business but in time with alternative fuels and technology the UP could become a place that is mostly owned, visited and part-time inhabited by "outsiders". Just compare the home and land prices in the UP vs. Northern Wisconsin and Northern Minnesota. As the populations around Milwaukee, Madison, and the Twin Cities grows by millions in coming decades there will be recreational spill-over into the UP, when we aren't as dependant on expensive gas.
 

squat

New member
I go up there almost every other weekend. Western UP and I drive 28 and 2 all the time. At least once a month I see something go out of business. Seney is the latest. The store is now closed and I think the only rooms there are at the Fox River Motel. Crossing the bridge this weekend was easy. No delay like it was a few years ago. So far in the last 2 years I have seen the toll booths go from having 3 or 4 open down to as little as 1. 2 were open last Friday going up. Trafic is nill. The only trafic is in the Western side. People from WI and MN are doing much better than us trolls so the east and central are taking a huge hit. Way more than like in this story. Sad but the fishing is unreal. People are missing out big time.
 

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I grew up in the Yoop and absolutely loved it. After graduating from NMU I moved to Wisconsin in 1980 for a job. Got married to a WI girl and we've raised our family in SE Wisconsin. I always say, even though I'm not in the Yoop, I sure was lucky to land in WI. That said, 12 years ago we bought land in the Yoop and then built a vacation home on it 6 years later. We love spending time up there and always look forward to the next trip. We love it so much (yes, even the WI girl) that we're planning to retire there in a few more years. The Yoop is a special place...whether you live there or just visit.
 

anonomoose

New member
As a former NMU'er, I knew it as a place of wilderness yet surrounded by water resources that is unique for all states save for the lower of Michigan where I grew up.

If you apply logic and common sense, much can be cleared up about this land where loyalty is as fierce as the winters.

Gas prices KILL tourism. Tourism has been on the wain since the mid 1950's. Some resurgence occurred in the 60's, late 70's and into the 80's and even the 90's but it has been a long battle which leaves abandoned buildings in it's wake. If tourism is a main draw for this place, then it makes sense that as travel expenses increase, longer distance places will take a hit. Staying closer to home but leaving farther away places the the Upper off the agenda.

When I was a kid, the Yoopee was the land of big bucks, big bears, big fish and cheap living. You went there to enjoy all those things and a fairly inexpensive place to vacation. Now for a family in Columbus, it is a hefty fetch. Too bad...all those little tiny overnite cottages used to be brimming with vacationers beginning as soon as school let out until just about Thanksgiving.

That has all ended...for the most part....logging boomed as forests regenerated, but now with paperless communication increasing, paper companies are waining and this will continue to put a squeeze on the economy. Mining will increase as precious metals continue to increase in value, but I hope that comes with far more oversight than in the past. Wrecking the streams and rivers that flow into the big waters isn't worth extractions and a handful of jobs that will leave long term scaring of the lands. If it is done right, and reclaimed afterwords with little threat to other valuable assets that the country provides, then it should be included in the viability of the economy.

With the increased costs of just living in a harsh climate, this will further strain the population. Lack of interstate highway systems will inhibit growth along with other high demand services folks are used to.

Still this land is of great importance, and few people who visit have something bad to say about it. On the contrary, they usually come back again and again once they find out that it has such raw beauty and such a diverse terrain. I mean is there any place in the world as pretty as the sandy beaches of lake Superior?

After doing time in the Marquette area for several years, it is in my blood, and I never ever fail to relax when I hit the bridge, leaving life behind and all too soon regret having to head back down south again.

I see it as one of the nicest places on the earth, and I hope we can keep it that way...with a population increase or not. I know lots of displaced Yoopers, who grew up there and want to go back as soon as they retire. It is the sort of thing that stirs your soul, and fortifies the body....and in the end...that's all the really matters besides family.

From a long history of stout people who timbered, mined, built towns and organized life from nothing....it takes a special breed to live there and little that Washington, or Lansing can do will ever change that...once you get a tast of this place Yoopers call home.
 

polarisrider1

New member
As a former NMU'er, I knew it as a place of wilderness yet surrounded by water resources that is unique for all states save for the lower of Michigan where I grew up.

If you apply logic and common sense, much can be cleared up about this land where loyalty is as fierce as the winters.

Gas prices KILL tourism. Tourism has been on the wain since the mid 1950's. Some resurgence occurred in the 60's, late 70's and into the 80's and even the 90's but it has been a long battle which leaves abandoned buildings in it's wake. If tourism is a main draw for this place, then it makes sense that as travel expenses increase, longer distance places will take a hit. Staying closer to home but leaving farther away places the the Upper off the agenda.

When I was a kid, the Yoopee was the land of big bucks, big bears, big fish and cheap living. You went there to enjoy all those things and a fairly inexpensive place to vacation. Now for a family in Columbus, it is a hefty fetch. Too bad...all those little tiny overnite cottages used to be brimming with vacationers beginning as soon as school let out until just about Thanksgiving.

That has all ended...for the most part....logging boomed as forests regenerated, but now with paperless communication increasing, paper companies are waining and this will continue to put a squeeze on the economy. Mining will increase as precious metals continue to increase in value, but I hope that comes with far more oversight than in the past. Wrecking the streams and rivers that flow into the big waters isn't worth extractions and a handful of jobs that will leave long term scaring of the lands. If it is done right, and reclaimed afterwords with little threat to other valuable assets that the country provides, then it should be included in the viability of the economy.

With the increased costs of just living in a harsh climate, this will further strain the population. Lack of interstate highway systems will inhibit growth along with other high demand services folks are used to.

Still this land is of great importance, and few people who visit have something bad to say about it. On the contrary, they usually come back again and again once they find out that it has such raw beauty and such a diverse terrain. I mean is there any place in the world as pretty as the sandy beaches of lake Superior?

After doing time in the Marquette area for several years, it is in my blood, and I never ever fail to relax when I hit the bridge, leaving life behind and all too soon regret having to head back down south again.

I see it as one of the nicest places on the earth, and I hope we can keep it that way...with a population increase or not. I know lots of displaced Yoopers, who grew up there and want to go back as soon as they retire. It is the sort of thing that stirs your soul, and fortifies the body....and in the end...that's all the really matters besides family.

From a long history of stout people who timbered, mined, built towns and organized life from nothing....it takes a special breed to live there and little that Washington, or Lansing can do will ever change that...once you get a tast of this place Yoopers call home.

Maybe not Washington or Lansing can change the UP but Walmart has put a dent in it. Marquette looks like any large city in the lower half of the state.
 

samc

New member
Maybe not Washington or Lansing can change the UP but Walmart has put a dent in it. Marquette looks like any large city in the lower half of the state.
X2! The University's really help Marquette and Houghton's economy's but the little towns will only survive if the UP can market the tourism industry better.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
The tourism issue for the UP is tough. The UP product is, oh, let's call it "Active Nature". That is, the UP is where you go to participate in nature, not view it. It is not a theme park, it is a reality show.

In general I think we can all agree that the "Active Nature" market is declining. We hear about fewer deer hunters, fewer sledders, etc. This is from a US Fish and Wildlife Service report Feb 2011:
Results of the he report include the following:

- The number of turkey hunters has increased since 1991.

- The number of duck and deer hunters has been stable since 1991. (total US pop grew 24%)

- Rabbit and squirrel hunting have lost half their participants since 1991.

- The overall number of hunters has declined, largely due to a decrease in small game and dove hunting.

- Participation in both freshwater fishing and saltwater fishing has decreased


So, while the UP may do Active Nature as well as anyone, the overall market for that is declining. To get a bigger share of a declining market usually means slugging it out, generally on a price basis. That is painful, because you compete with your neighbor rather than with the neighboring state.

When you add in that the UP does not have an overall promotion strategy or message and its promotion is not funded by a UP room tax it means that individual properties and communities are left to deliver their own message. That's hard to do, and the message delivered by an individual property in a declining market generally is price.

Additionally, people want to be connected, even when in nature. When you add in the generally poor cell phone coverage and lack of high speed internet in the UP vacation areas it becomes a hard sell. I know there will be a post that says "I like that I go to the UP and be disconnected, it's a relief", but that is a very declining segment of America. My wife loves to sled in the UP. But when she gets off that sled she needs to be connected to the internet, as she is a consultant and has to serve the client.

The UP does what it does better than anyplace else in the Midwest. Unfortunately, without a unified tourism effort it will not be able to attract a larger share of the declining market. And that's the "death spiral" of tourism, as I cut my price to steal my neighbors room nights.

The entire UP needs to attract NEW tourists, who have different needs than the current customer base, and steal share of the existing customer base from surrounding states.
 
The locals are not always conducive to 'outsiders' coming to their republic. I own a cabin near Iron River Mi and know many locals. Most are good people with good morals, but there sure are some real hum-dingers, especially the one that vandalized my truck last year while I was fishing on a nearby lake.

HH
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Very sad to see Ma & Pa's biz fold in UP. I have been visiting UP for over 20 years & it just is not what it used to be. With $4+ gas you just don't travel 60 -70 miles RT for a meal or other service just too expensive to do that. Unfortunately I don't see things getting better it is like watching a loved one dying of cancer each day things decline a little more & you are helpless to turn things around. Snomo biz is where it is at in UP but even that seems unsustainable in the near future. With more & more people getting out due to high costs of ownership & renting sleds fewer hours on the trail less time in UP less money for Ma & Pa. I hate seeing the UP decline but it is fact for sure.
 

Hoosier

Well-known member
The tourism issue for the UP is tough. The UP product is, oh, let's call it "Active Nature". That is, the UP is where you go to participate in nature, not view it. It is not a theme park, it is a reality show.

In general I think we can all agree that the "Active Nature" market is declining. We hear about fewer deer hunters, fewer sledders, etc. This is from a US Fish and Wildlife Service report Feb 2011:
Results of the he report include the following:

- The number of turkey hunters has increased since 1991.

- The number of duck and deer hunters has been stable since 1991. (total US pop grew 24%)

- Rabbit and squirrel hunting have lost half their participants since 1991.

- The overall number of hunters has declined, largely due to a decrease in small game and dove hunting.

- Participation in both freshwater fishing and saltwater fishing has decreased


So, while the UP may do Active Nature as well as anyone, the overall market for that is declining. To get a bigger share of a declining market usually means slugging it out, generally on a price basis. That is painful, because you compete with your neighbor rather than with the neighboring state.

When you add in that the UP does not have an overall promotion strategy or message and its promotion is not funded by a UP room tax it means that individual properties and communities are left to deliver their own message. That's hard to do, and the message delivered by an individual property in a declining market generally is price.

Additionally, people want to be connected, even when in nature. When you add in the generally poor cell phone coverage and lack of high speed internet in the UP vacation areas it becomes a hard sell. I know there will be a post that says "I like that I go to the UP and be disconnected, it's a relief", but that is a very declining segment of America. My wife loves to sled in the UP. But when she gets off that sled she needs to be connected to the internet, as she is a consultant and has to serve the client.

The UP does what it does better than anyplace else in the Midwest. Unfortunately, without a unified tourism effort it will not be able to attract a larger share of the declining market. And that's the "death spiral" of tourism, as I cut my price to steal my neighbors room nights.

The entire UP needs to attract NEW tourists, who have different needs than the current customer base, and steal share of the existing customer base from surrounding states.

Sad to see the numbers declining on the "active market." Unfortunately, most kids would rather play video games these days...
 
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LarryD

New member
In my mind the fishing in Upper WI went to **** once the Indian spearing and netting started and that was the beginning of the end for summer tourism. I used to go up 8-10 times a year fishing and now I have a hard time justifying one trip. The thing that really gets me is no one complains about it anymore-just like a bunch of sheep we just get in line and follow the leader regardless of where we are going or what is happening.
 
As for gas prices, fill up in Iron River if passing through. Paid $3.94/gal cash and best part is the gas is ethanol free!

HH
 

scottd

New member
I have not read all of the posts but hasn't the UP been declining for a LONG time (longer than most of us can remember)? Since about the 20's when the copper mining mostly stopped in the Keweenaw hasn't it really been in decline? In the Marquette area to me it seems like the airbase closing had a huge impact and declined since (that could be also that our camp is close to there so it seems even more so). That said on a big summer weekend like the 4th I still see lots of fancy boats, jetski's, etc and still amazed at the number of high dollar sleds I see at an average fuel stop on any given weekend trip in the winter.
 
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