Use Realtor or For Sale By Owner???

[anonomoose]

I am a Broker in the State on MN- I never show FSBO properties on MLS cause its too much work having to deal with the seller unless it has a high payout for the commision. Around my area (St Cloud MN) a normal pay out is 2.5% to 2.7% of the sale price. If I see something higher is makes it worth my time. Put a 3.5% to 4% payout using the $400 listing fee to be on MLS and the Real Estate Agents will be pounding down your door to sell it.

I mainly sell properties that I flip and always payout 3.5% to the other agent. IF the house is priced right and super clean it will sell really fast! Most agents arent making too much these days so the big payout really helps.

I have sold 17 Flip properties that I have owned since November of 2009 and the longest I have ever had a property on the market on MLS had been 8 days and I know it is because of the big payout.

Hope this helps

"No offense bud but your justification is weak at best. Here is exactly what he said, I'm not sure how you neglected to over look it, maybe you can elaborate a bit on that

" I am a Broker in the State on MN- I never show FSBO properties on MLS cause its too much work having to deal with the seller unless it has a high payout for the commision"

ITS TOO MUCH WORK HE SAID, that is unless it has a larger commission. So, we know he does represent sellers but only under his personal terms of $$$$. It's just the way people are. He said "high payout", Didn't say average of good or anything like that. What's in it for him drives his motivation. I realize it's a job and a job is to make money but the seller is poorly represented. I can just see it now with everybody in the office, "who wants this one" and everybody looks at each other "you took the call so it's yours" , "but I cant do that one BECAUSE" bla bla bla No offense bud but your justification is weak at best. Here is exactly what he said, I'm not sure how you neglected to over look it, maybe you can elaborate a bit on that

" I am a Broker in the State on MN- I never show FSBO properties on MLS cause its too much work having to deal with the seller unless it has a high payout for the commision"

"ITS TOO MUCH WORK HE SAID, that is unless it has a larger commission. So, we know he does represent sellers but only under his personal terms of $$$$. It's just the way people are. He said "high payout", Didn't say average of good or anything like that. What's in it for him drives his motivation. I realize it's a job and a job is to make money but the seller is poorly represented. I can just see it now with everybody in the office, "who wants this one" and everybody looks at each other "you took the call so it's yours" , "but I cant do that one BECAUSE" bla bla bla "

Lenny, you left out some of the quote so I included it so you don't have to go back and read the post again. He said " I never show FSBO properties on MLS cause its too much work having to deal with the seller unless it has a high payout for the commission."

"The Seller is poorly represented"....the Seller has his own representative and it is NOT this Agent/ or his brokerage.

He also went into detail that he basically works for himself. "I mainly sell properties that I flip" Who is he working for here??? Not the Seller, himself. Can you blame him he dives in and get the fattest commission available...it is HIS paycheck.

" I have sold 17 Flip properties that I have owned since November of 2009 and the longest I have ever had a property on the market on MLS had been 8 days "
He's bragging a bit here, but clearly anyone who knows how to read should read this to mean that he is working for himself, and commission does count in the transaction, after all he is paying himself, and flipping the property and that all adds up to a bigger paycheck, which you can not blame him for.

Dumping on this guy, and flaming him for doing what he does best is like blaming a baker for making good Cinnamon buns...and making you gain weight.

 

[matman]

just for consideration-

Unfortunately real estate sales people like hookers have this in common-

The Value of the service is greatly diminished after the service has been performed.

 

[olsmann]

What we have hear is a failure to read and comprehend what was written and stated, CLEARLY.

This Minnesota Broker, CLEARLY states that he BUYS (READ THIS TO MEAN THAT HE IS REPRESENTING HIMSELF...and not others) and FLIPS property.

Because he is REPRESENTING HIMSELF, in these transactions, it is perfectly okay to ignore low compensation paid to the SELLING BROKER..AKA, HIMSELF as a measure of whether or not to show or to not show the property.

In fact this is obviously a smart agent/broker, who states the obvious in these transactions. Had he said that he REPRESENTED OTHER PARTIES in the transaction as a buyer's agent, THEN he would have a fiduciary relationship putting the interests of the party who hired him first and unless he said he would NOT show properties that compensated below...xxx percentage of the sale, he then would be in violation of the laws of all states.

What YOU have done is to ostracize this fellow for doing his job on BEHALF of himself, and YOU Mr. Olsmann, didn't read what he said. Futhermore your spelling ability makes me suspect of your limited level of education (Therefore, if I was looking for a Broker in Wisconsin and found an agent/broker with such short attention span and/or inability to read and comprehend what was stated, spelled like a 3rd grader....and about to enter into legal and binding transaction)..I would run....not walk from your business table. In short I wouldn't hire you unless I was desperate and you were the only agent within 140 miles of my home. You either can not read or can not understand what someone is writing. Neither one is a very good trait for a broker/agent who's livelihood depends upon clearly reading and comprehending what directives are important to "the" client.

Go back and read his post...and then next time try and comprehend what he was saying before your flame this guy for doing what he clearly does very well. He is an agent for HIMSELF and being selective about what he shows is all up to him, not you. And for pete's sake....get a spell checker before you flame someone for being ignorant.

Actually, I read and understood his post just fine. (I'm sorry you failed to read and comprehend mine) He did state that he mainly works for himself on his own properties and that is fine. However, he also CLEARLY stated he wont show any other FSBO properties in the MLS because they are to much work and he can't make enough money.(maybe you didn't comprehend that statement?) Which means either way in WI he would be working with a buyer or a seller other than himself. He has to represent one or the other. It's how he represents those clients I wondered about? If you had a brokers lic. you would have a better understanding of why making a statement like that is a no no. I'm sorry my spelling and post offended you. Im guessing you are a friend of this other broker. I certainly hope you never end up working with a broker that puts their own interests ahead of yours. (you might miss out on a great deal because your agent could'nt make enough money on the deal) But it sounds like you won't needing one as you have it all figured out.

Anytime an agent or broker makes a statement about putting his own interests ahead of a client its a problem.(unless he is representing himself) Which this broker CLEARLY did. Your response to defend him was weak or you failed to read his second sentence. Which is why you used my spelling to try to strenghten your point. Dont worry about me, I do just fine as a broker and have plenty of repeat clients that I have built over the years from hard work and fair and honest representation. You are right, he can choose to work with whoever he wants, but if one of his clients wants to see a house and he wont show it because he wont make enough money, thats a problem. Oh and thanks for the attack on my level of education. It was a clever way to call me stupid and try to stay within rule of "no personal attacks" Maybe when you respond to this to defend your friend again you can say something bad about my mother? I commend you on your spelling . However, a person can have great spelling and grammer and still be and sound ignorant.

 

[lenny]

Let's analyze this a bit!

You say as the sales price goes up, the commission rate should go down. Basically you are right and many brokerage houses charge a lower commission rate on the higher tiers of the price. 7% on the first 100k, and 5% on the second, and 2% on the third right on up to a million dollars and beyond. Why didn't you negotiate one with your realtor? If you have a clean product, shows like a gem, and you picked the right location when you bought it, demand for it is good, you should have looked for a broker who would take a more proportioned commission. Of course if you HAD to use THE broker in the area, then THE broker can charge you whatever HE wants because YOU had to have him because HE built a reputation on HIS business and getting the JOB done, didn't you? You want one builder, one plumber or one car company....then you are now stuck with whatever they charge because YOU won't go anywhere else. When this happens, EXPECT to leave money on the table....just supply and demand at work. His sales pitch sucked you in, and YOU paid the price. You can't fault him for that can you? Whining about it afterwords is simply sour grapes. YOU knew HE was the guy who moved product and YOU had to have him, didn't you?? Did you shop around, or hand it over to the "big guy" doing the job in YOUR neighborhood??? EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE...ISN'T IT?? You didn't do YOUR job at the time the papers were signed up and do YOUR best job to get the best deal you could. After the job is done, you are like the guy who said he paid too much to get his toilet unplugged and couldn't get it unplugged on his own. This just means that you were frustrated that YOU could do the job right and YOU had to hire the "expensive guy" to do it...or at least you THOUGHT you had to hire him...when in fact perhaps you didn't do your due diligence prior to hiring THE most expensive guy around who would NOT negotiate commission. Sometimes you just have to concede that they guy knows what he is doing and has built his reputation on good work, and can now enjoy the benefits of his reputation because of his expertise in the field. No different than any other business in the world. If you have it, people will come and pay you whatever you charge....they think YOU are the only one who can do the job...and maybe they are right!



Hey, I am NOT saying all brokers are worth what they charge, because many are very inexperienced, and often brokers are sought without the due diligence you should be paying attention to. Has he sold many properties like yours (I am not talking about his brokerage...but himself) or has he only been selling for a few months or years. Experience, like anything else is a huge factor in "been there done that" process that any transaction can fall into as it moves along the path to a closing. You probably spent more time on picking the brokerage than you did "interviewing" the agent who was the vital link in the transaction. Lack of experience is 90% of the problem when a problem comes up. Unfortunately, in many brokerage houses the actual broker who is supposed to be overseeing the deal never gets involved unless and or until there is a problem. Therefore things can go wrong because someone with experience is not there to recognize what needs to be done and when to do it.

Once again, did you ask ahead of time about this? Did your broker tell you that you would have to use a new survey even though you just did one a few years ago, PRIOR to signing his listing agreement. If you didn't do that then you are at fault for not getting costs cleared up before you signed on the dotted line? If he insisted and you knew that it wasn't necessary and would go on the record and attesting to that fact, then you should have found another broker who WOULD take a sworn statement prior to listing the property.

You say you just sold the camp yourself. Will you be sued (they have several years to uncover latent defects) when they find that the well fails this spring, or the septic, or the foundation settles?...you are NOT out of the woods on that one for quite some time and many people saved a nickle but toss back dollars because they cut a corner and didn't even know enough to protect themselves at the time of closing. Even an attorney doesn't always know enough to get the right documents signed at closing and therefore you might still pay. Did you find a real estate attorney to close the deal or did you simply shop for a local attorney who does many things, but none of them really well because he was "cheap" to use and would "only" charge so much for "reviewing the documents" leaving glaring issues and dwelling on a sewer bill that has limited concern? I have seen hundreds of attorney's over look things that they surely should have been concerned with because they were not savvy to current issues or simply did not have the where-with-all to know how to properly protect a client. They lacked experience and didn't do real estate closings for a living and protect their client because they simply didn't know. Would you go to a general practitioner to have him do specialized surgery on your heart? Why not?? He probably would be cheaper. Common sense enters here my friend, and you need to have proper education and experience to do a good job and that process doesn't change for plumbers or brokers or candlestick makers.

you continue to prove my point again and again which is the crooks are highly motivated by $ signs. There needs to be a balance where the realtor and seller are mutually comfortable with all aspects of the sale. If you sign with a highly recommended, reputable broker than you should expect that broker to convey all the details of the job otherwise you may as well do it yourself. If we all knew the details than we wouldn't need them now would we?

You tell me I should have negotiated with the broker to a lower commission, I did and that was the best they would do. So than I should go look elsewhere to find a better broker. Maybe the last one was excellent in 90% of aspects but was simply greedy. Maybe the next one will not be greedy but is lazy. Your all knowing qualities are unrealistic. I know there are realtor's out there that are honest, not greedy and will offer up all details of a contract without you needing to pry it out of them. They ought to be willing and wanting to see us as happy as we could be so they can build their business. Sometimes you just have to do what you gotta do and complaining about it is the learning process. I have made mistakes and I am to blame but I don't repeat them. There are realtor's I would never consider again to sell for me but you insist I needed to be just as knowledgeable as the broker himself to make the educated decision. I ought to be able to inquire with multiple local realtor's and base my decision upon the interview, that's what we all do you dummy! Are we realtor's? do we know the game inside and out? NO! but we look for the representative to do right by us. Sometimes we get a not so great a deal because we thought we did just that.

You on the other hand don't allow any room for error on the part of the realtor and blame the seller for his horrible decision. Some people live out in the country and use a broker in a nearby city because that is all that's available to them so they don't have the luxury of being "all knowing" like yourself. The problem I see with your mentality is that us sellers have to be 100% educated to get the right broker, have to have ALL the right questions. We try our best and find the problems as we go and make adjustments. You have discounted and questioned nearly ever aspect of my lifetime experience with realtor's, you pointed ever error I made and chalked up every success to chance or misunderstanding. You are an unreasonable person and I hope you never represent a seller because the fact remains. There are many ways to do a job right and realtor's are not the only way. So go ahead and continue to protect the traditional practice of home sales, hold on as long as you can but you cannot protect a inferior system forever. Good luck with that.

When I sell my services (general contractor) to a perspective homeowner I make knowledge available to the person in order for them to see what they are getting, regardless if I am right or wrong. I will not with hold info just to get a contract. I want repeat customers who trust me and tell others about me. That is my work ethic. If I can save them money I will tell them how to achieve that goal. I have not received this same performance from the majority of realtor's from where I came. You say the process doesn't change for plumbers, candlestick makers etc,,,your right but you should expect the person you hire to be the professional, especially with the reputation and recommendations.

Summary, some Realtors are better than others, just like plumbers and candlestick makers. You do your best to pick the right one and still get bent over. How do you like car dealers, they operate on selling for the highest price, STRICTLY, a good example of another industry run muck. The best negotiator gets the best deal, how about a good product for a fair price. That's the way the majority used to work but now days we see greed dominate the markets and the consumer (seller) gets the shaft and record record profits climb and climb (example, insurance companies). This my friend is cultural evolution and not all of us are going down without a fight!

Put that in your smoke and pipe it!

 

[olsmann]

you continue to prove my point again and again which is the crooks are highly motivated by $ signs. There needs to be a balance where the realtor and seller are mutually comfortable with all aspects of the sale. If you sign with a highly recommended, reputable broker than you should expect that broker to convey all the details of the job otherwise you may as well do it yourself. If we all knew the details than we wouldn't need them now would we?

You tell me I should have negotiated with the broker to a lower commission, I did and that was the best they would do. So than I should go look elsewhere to find a better broker. Maybe the last one was excellent in 90% of aspects but was simply greedy. Maybe the next one will not be greedy but is lazy. Your all knowing qualities are unrealistic. I know there are realtor's out there that are honest, not greedy and will offer up all details of a contract without you needing to pry it out of them. They ought to be willing and wanting to see us as happy as we could be so they can build their business. Sometimes you just have to do what you gotta do and complaining about it is the learning process. I have made mistakes and I am to blame but I don't repeat them. There are realtor's I would never consider again to sell for me but you insist I needed to be just as knowledgeable as the broker himself to make the educated decision. I ought to be able to inquire with multiple local realtor's and base my decision upon the interview, that's what we all do you dummy! Are we realtor's? do we know the game inside and out? NO! but we look for the representative to do right by us. Sometimes we get a not so great a deal because we thought we did just that.

You on the other hand don't allow any room for error on the part of the realtor and blame the seller for his horrible decision. Some people live out in the country and use a broker in a nearby city because that is all that's available to them so they don't have the luxury of being "all knowing" like yourself. The problem I see with your mentality is that us sellers have to be 100% educated to get the right broker, have to have ALL the right questions. We try our best and find the problems as we go and make adjustments. You have discounted and questioned nearly ever aspect of my lifetime experience with realtor's, you pointed ever error I made and chalked up every success to chance or misunderstanding. You are an unreasonable person and I hope you never represent a seller because the fact remains. There are many ways to do a job right and realtor's are not the only way. So go ahead and continue to protect the traditional practice of home sales, hold on as long as you can but you cannot protect a inferior system forever. Good luck with that.

When I sell my services (general contractor) to a perspective homeowner I make knowledge available to the person in order for them to see what they are getting, regardless if I am right or wrong. I will not with hold info just to get a contract. I want repeat customers who trust me and tell others about me. That is my work ethic. If I can save them money I will tell them how to achieve that goal. I have not received this same performance from the majority of realtor's from where I came. You say the process doesn't change for plumbers, candlestick makers etc,,,your right but you should expect the person you hire to be the professional, especially with the reputation and recommendations.

Summary, some Realtors are better than others, just like plumbers and candlestick makers. You do your best to pick the right one and still get bent over. How do you like car dealers, they operate on selling for the highest price, STRICTLY, a good example of another industry run muck. The best negotiator gets the best deal, how about a good product for a fair price. That's the way the majority used to work but now days we see greed dominate the markets and the consumer (seller) gets the shaft and record record profits climb and climb (example, insurance companies). This my friend is cultural evolution and not all of us are going down without a fight!

Put that in your smoke and pipe it!

Lenny, which is why that broker making that comment makes us good realtors look like crooks.

 

[anonomoose]

Lenny, you are rambling and I am running out of patience to argue with you.

Suffice it to say that as a general contractor, you try your best to explain the "costs" raw and those that can't be relied upon at the time you cut your deal with your customers. Prices jump before you get the job done, sometimes you eat the cost, sometimes you say, this has to be passed on to the project.

When you listed your home, it was YOUR job...not the Agent's job to ASK "what is this going to cost me"? If he was a good realtor, he sat down and did a net out including some "possible costs" and "hard costs" that he knew you would face. Included in there was the commission. You agreed...end of discussion there. If you weren't happy...nobody put a gun to your head, you signed the agreement of your own accord, and now you're unhappy because he charged you what he said he was going to charge you?

Are all contractors honest and fair...hardly pilgram....many will stick your eyes out if they can, and your job should you chose to do it, is to ask questions get referrals from others who have used this guys services, and do everything possible to be sure that WHO you picked is the best available. Then negotiate the best that he will do for you, and then live with it or do it yourself.

This isn't a perfect world, and maybe you needed to turn this sale over to yet another middle man such as some legal representative, or your mother, to do since it upsets you that when the job gets done you can't go beat up on them since you hired them to do this job for you??

This is actually a model for all life. Do your homework. Don't sign just because. Get referrals from those you do trust as they will likely have some realtors who have done a good job and remember them. Repeat business is a realtor's life blood. He gets more business because he did a good job and ask questions. Once all the costs are sorted out, and you can live with it and sign and he does his job...then stop complaining for the sake of complaining because you got what you should have expected.

You can't please everyone...and sometimes, you can't please people who just won't be pleased. Nobody likes a crybaby, and if you think you can do a better job of taking your appendix out, or building a car or truck, or a 50 story building...have at it...ain't nobody going to stand in your way. But as most attorney's will tell you, when you go to court and represent yourself, you have a fool for a client.

Good luck.

 

[xcr440]

Put that in your smoke and pipe it!

I'll gladly put what I want in my pipe and smoke it, not what someone tries to give me. I'm sure you feel the same.

Your generalization that brokers and real estate agents are crooks is a crock of you know what.

We are all sorry that you have obviously had such a bad experience, and we are also happy that you are now more educated for it.

Smile everyday, including today, and have a nice one.

 

[lenny]

Lenny, you are rambling and I am running out of patience to argue with you.

Suffice it to say that as a general contractor, you try your best to explain the "costs" raw and those that can't be relied upon at the time you cut your deal with your customers. Prices jump before you get the job done, sometimes you eat the cost, sometimes you say, this has to be passed on to the project.

When you listed your home, it was YOUR job...not the Agent's job to ASK "what is this going to cost me"? If he was a good realtor, he sat down and did a net out including some "possible costs" and "hard costs" that he knew you would face. Included in there was the commission. You agreed...end of discussion there. If you weren't happy...nobody put a gun to your head, you signed the agreement of your own accord, and now you're unhappy because he charged you what he said he was going to charge you?

Are all contractors honest and fair...hardly pilgram....many will stick your eyes out if they can, and your job should you chose to do it, is to ask questions get referrals from others who have used this guys services, and do everything possible to be sure that WHO you picked is the best available. Then negotiate the best that he will do for you, and then live with it or do it yourself.

This isn't a perfect world, and maybe you needed to turn this sale over to yet another middle man such as some legal representative, or your mother, to do since it upsets you that when the job gets done you can't go beat up on them since you hired them to do this job for you??

This is actually a model for all life. Do your homework. Don't sign just because. Get referrals from those you do trust as they will likely have some realtors who have done a good job and remember them. Repeat business is a realtor's life blood. He gets more business because he did a good job and ask questions. Once all the costs are sorted out, and you can live with it and sign and he does his job...then stop complaining for the sake of complaining because you got what you should have expected.

You can't please everyone...and sometimes, you can't please people who just won't be pleased. Nobody likes a crybaby, and if you think you can do a better job of taking your appendix out, or building a car or truck, or a 50 story building...have at it...ain't nobody going to stand in your way. But as most attorney's will tell you, when you go to court and represent yourself, you have a fool for a client.

Good luck.

you are out of touch with reality, keep conforming to the system. Hope it serves you well. You obviously have no understanding of service and are unwilling to learn. Some people are inovative and take risks, question the norm. You my friend operate in the box and follow the lemming right off the cliff. "You are loosing patients with me",,, nice!!

Now your wasting my time!

 

[lenny]

I'll gladly put what I want in my pipe and smoke it, not what someone tries to give me. I'm sure you feel the same.

Your generalization that brokers and real estate agents are crooks is a crock of you know what.

We are all sorry that you have obviously had such a bad experience, and we are also happy that you are now more educated for it.

Smile everyday, including today, and have a nice one.

I think your right about my generalization of realtors, I would have to concede that more are better than worse.

 

[lenny]

Looking at moving. Can list house on MLS for about $400 and probably have to pay buyer-side realtor either way. Is using a realtor worth the extra money?

Hey, I apologize for my ramblings and hi-jacking your thread, you didn't ask for all this crap. Sorry, Lenny