White Fawn - Forest Glenn / Press Conference

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snocrazy

Active member
Forest Glenn was on the news. They just resurfaced FFH 13 using some new process that is saving $$$.
Senator Casperson was on site along with all the local government big wigs. All the TV news channels were there.

If you have stayed at White Fawn you will recognize the owner George Whitehead in the FOX interview. You guys are prob not used to seeing him in flip flops, shorts, and a t-shirt. The ABC interview has Georges Mom Jan. You would recognize her from working at the General Store.
The place is looking good with all of the rentals out front. They rent JetSkis, pontoons, canoes, kyacks, 4 wheelers, side by sides, fishing boats, and on and on. Just ask, I bet they have it. They have also remodeled several of their cabins. Place is hopping this summer for sure.

Fox interview - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhws2ZoJ8bQ

ABC interview - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtGuX8JbXK4
 
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frnash

Active member
FFH 13 was resurfaced, using "chip seal"???

That "chip seal" ("A new layer of asphalt emulsion + crushed angular chips") process was used in Phoenix through the 1970s & 1980s. What a nightmare! The old pavement was ripped up, a new new layer of asphalt emulsion was added, then the "crushed angular chips" were applied. Done. Just a quick pass by a roller/compactor ("Steam Roller" for any old folks) was used to start, then the real "compaction" chore was left to the daily commuter traffic, nominally with a temporary 15 MPH speed limit. Your windshield was often cracked by a barrage of flying asphalt coated stone chips, and your nice paint job was adorned with gobs of asphalt and scratches and dents from those sharp, angular stone chips. Oh joy!

Finally in 1989 AZ DOT abandoned that nightmare process when they started using rubberized asphalt. I will tell ya, it is much smoother with noticeably less road noise. The following is from AZDOT:
What is rubberized asphalt?
Rubberized asphalt consists of regular asphalt paving mixed with “crumb rubber” (a.k.a. ground up used tires) — recycled materials that otherwise would be headed to a landfill … what’s not to like?

The used tires are processed by separating the casings, fabric and steel. The extracted rubber then is ground to the consistency of ground coffee. Approximately 1,500 tires are used for every lane-mile of rubberized paving.

… rubberized asphalt is temperature sensitive and cannot be applied during very cold weather or very hot weather. That means rubberized asphalt can only be applied during the spring and fall in the Phoenix area.

Quiet pavement
Did we mention that rubberized asphalt pavement can reduce traffic noise levels by at least four decibels? If you’ve driven on a roadway paved with rubberized asphalt, you should be able to notice the difference.

Smooth
Drive on a roadway paved with rubberized asphalt and you’ll notice how smooth it is. Believe it or not, it takes only ½ to 1 inch of rubberized asphalt on the road surface to achieve this benefit. But don’t let its smooth exterior fool you — this stuff is durable, too. Despite millions of vehicles driving on it, a rubberized asphalt surface will last about 10 years. That means fewer dollars spent on replacing worn road surfaces, and that saves everyone time and money.
Click to expand...
 
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snocrazy

Active member
They did not even grind the surface. There was a tanker truck with sprayer wings. Sprayed the ooze of black over the road pretty thick (one side at a time). Then they used this machine that looked like the asphalt spreader but it was just evenly spreading the rocks. Then the rollers and broom.... Sounds like the exact process minus the surface grinding. It will prob be worse in this case compared to AZ lol. Add the snowplows and salt..... Yes lose rocks and even dust to boot before rains after they did it.

But they saved sooooo much..... ;)
 
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sweeperguy

Active member
Chip seal, and using rubberized asphalt are two completly different things. Chip seal is put down on top of the existing asphalt. With only sweeping the pavement, then applying a liquid asphalt, then a layer of rock. When the rock is put down and rolled, Approx. A week to 10 days later the excess rock (or chip seal ) is swept up. Then another sweep two weeks after that. Pretty much the same as sealcoating your driveway, except that a wear layer of new rock is added instead of just the asphalt liquid coating.
With using rubberized asphalt, it is a new overlay of asphalt. First the old surface is milled (surface is grinded) the top 1" to 3" is milled off and loaded onto trucks and brought to the asphalt plant to be used in production of new asphalt (100% recycled) then the milled surface is swept clean, a thin coat of tack oil is applied, (which is just a little bit thinner liquid asphalt used in chip seal ). Then a new asphalt wear layer is put down with paving machines. Either rubberized asphalt, conventional asphalt, or now they have a new blend of super asphalt that if you pick up a handfull of, when it cools enough that you can without burning your hands. Regular asphalt will crumble apart if knead it in your hand, the new SSA is way sticky, and gummy it has a consistancy of like taffy. Of course its expensive. New asphalt has a life expectancy of 10 to maybe 15 years depending on traffic load etc. Whereas chip seal probably adds something like 5 years to the road surface. Depending on how bad the existing surface was when applied. Different rock chip is used from super hard granite chip, to pea gravel. How they decide what rock to use is cost based and affects longevity. Commercial parking lots use chip seal alot, both for cost, as versus overlay of new asphalt. And with chip seal it can be put back into service right away, as with seal coating with just liquid like a driveway they would need to close it for a day or two. And they do get a new wear layer also.
 
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ezra

Well-known member
why don't more county's use the redish rock when chip sealing? I have been paying attention over the yrs and the red roads around me hold up much much better. could be a heat thing? less heat absorption? not to mention IMHO the redish ones look better
 
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sweeperguy

Active member
ezra said:
why don't more county's use the redish rock when chip sealing? I have been paying attention over the yrs and the red roads around me hold up much much better. could be a heat thing? less heat absorption? not to mention IMHO the redish ones look better
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what kind of rock the red chip seal is, but most likely answer is cost, its most likely a harder rock like granite, and probably more expensive. But the hardness makes for longer lasting wear. The shape of the rock chips makes a difference also, rock that crushes and grinds with alot of flats and not much dust, holds up better also. Some counties may tend to shy away from red, because its not really a normal color for roads. What most people expect to see. I agree I like the red seal coat, better than gray too.
 
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ezra

Well-known member
not sure on cost , not a black top guy. but also have wondered why people don't do chip seal on there driveways.that black seal they do is junk what 2 yrs poss 3 out of it and back to it.
IMHO people would be willing to pay for a upgrade . especially if u offered red rock /light gray marble/some higher end rock chip would deff sell . cost to install cant be that much a roller hot tar tank and 2 high school dropouts.
 
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