Why aren't groomer drivers paid???

R

Running Bear

New member
Wondering why all groomer drivers aren't paid in Michigan. This is a question thats been buggin me for awhile. Our club "Watersmeet" pays their drivers. My understanding is if we turn in the proper paperwork the club is reimbursed and thats how we pay the drivers. The Club gets so much money per mile groomed and they keep a portion to cover the fuel and a portion pays the drivers. I hear the "all volunteer drivers" all the time and how unhappy they are and wanting to quit...I guess I just don't get it...yes theres the love of the sport which both paid and volunteer drivers share and I understand if you do volunteer you are helping the club make money. But to us getting paid sure makes the long nights and dealing with stupid much easier. Our club isn't broke (not rich either) and we don't do many fundraisers....we have all paid groomer drivers and we always make ends meet. If its just a matter of turning in paperwork then why not do that and pay the drivers? Please help me understand.

Linda
 
R

rsvectordude

New member
I've often wondered that myself. It seems only right that these guys get compensated for the hard work they do. I just assumed it was a money issue. Glad to hear your club has money for grooming, fuel, repairs and paying the drivers. You must be doing something right!!
 
Admin

Admin

Administrator
Staff member
I seriously doubt that they are not turning in their paperwork and that is what is causing them to be volunteer drivers.

The MI DNR reimburses what are called grant sponsors for miles groomed in the grant sponsor's designated trail system. The money can then be used for anything related to the grant sponsors task of grooming, groomer maintenance brushing, signing, etc. I know that here in the Keweenaw, the money we get from the DNR basically pays for the fuel used and most of the upkeep of the equipment, but not all. We run our groomers on two shifts a day, which means they are out 14-16+ hours a day, with the down time for maintenance. The high volume of visitors on the trails requires us to groom double (sometimes triple or quadruple) each day, unlike some areas that can get by once a day or even less than once a day. That is a lot of wear and tear on equipment and really costs a lot to keep the 5 groomers going all the time.

So basically no money is left from the DNR reimbursement to pay our drivers, so we draw from a fund from the Convention and Visitors Bureau. I suspect that other grant sponsors (or clubs) that have volunteer drivers are faced with the same challenges, but do not have a fund to draw upon like we do from the KVB.

Incidentally, we are trying to reduce our dependence on the KVB fund and anyone visiting the Keweenaw will see donation boxes put out by Keweenaw Trail Services. Please do not be shy about filling those boxes with your spare change or a buck or two to help us keep the trails smooth. A lot has changed in the past 5 years and visitors will find our trails in much better shape than they were 5-7 years ago, but this kind of change does not come cheap!

-John
 
R

Running Bear

New member
John....Thank you for helping me understand......I know first hand the hard work the groomer drivers put in and always wondered why everyone wasn't paid. I always thought if it was paperwork I love to do it for them for nothing just to help the drivers get paid. I knew all a long we were lucky to be paid for something we love to do and I guess hoped everyone else would be able to be paid also. Maybe thats why the raise of the trail stickers dosen't bother me a bit. Does your club own all their groomers? 5 is a lot to maintain...we only have 2 ...do you have to pay the mechanics to work on them or they volunteer also? This has always interested me what other clubs do
 
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G

groomerdave

New member
The $4.22 per groomed mile isn't enough to pay operators. It covers fuel, payments, regular maintenance, and overhead. I use the term overhead loosely, club costs, equipment payments (not as much as a couple years ago), overrun of maintenance costs, minor trail maintenance, and brushing / signing (which we get $90 / mile / season, but gets paid over 4 months). If you have a clubhouse or groomer barn, that takes money too.
You have a chance of covering operators pay if you have machines that are really fuel efficient, or your club is older / bigger, and has built up equity / capital in something. Our clubs machine burns 7 gallons/hour. On a good night we average 10 mph. Fuel cost right now is 2.75 / gallon. After fuel cost you would have $22.95 left over per hour. Seems like a lot, but as everybody knows, money goes fast! Servicing the machine every 250 hours at $500 a crack eats a chunk of money. Repairs eat up a ton of money too. If the repair is under a $1000, you will have to pay for it on your own. A few of those and add a stuck groomer in there and you are broke!
Think Snow! -Dave
 
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L

loriwlrc

New member
great threads keep educating the public, there's more to the sport then self pleasure,think how grand things could be if everyone just gave a little bit of their time,grooming, doing maintance on the trails or equipment. Get involved join a club especially in the areas you ride. Those beautiful trails are because of land owners and workers that love the sport. Trust me very few business owners get involved or even join the local clubs ( which I'd love to post on that issue but know that would just open up a whole new can of worms!) but the ones that don't sure love getting their fair share of the pie. Think about it how many riders are there in Michigan, how many are involved? If everyone would just put a $1 in containers you see think of the exra money generated. ( unlike a few weeks back when one of our clubs containers was stolen from a local business, hope the money got them far) Hats off to posters and this web site that can educate all areas of this sport.
 
Admin

Admin

Administrator
Staff member
Running Bear

Our organization partially owns a few machines. Several years ago, the DNR would pay a percentage of the cost for a new groomer and/or drag. So those that were purchased under that arrangement have partial ownership from us and partial ownership from the DNR. A year or two ago, the DNR went to a 100% coverage for the cost of a new groomer and/or drag, so we technically do not own the groomer we got last year and this year, but we are responsible for their upkeep.

Many of our groomer drivers are heavy equipment operators and can perform the general maintenance, but when it comes to things like transmission work or other big jobs, the machine has to go back to the dealer. So then we not only have to incur the cost of repair, but also to ship the machine to the dealer (one brand in Wausau and I think the other is in MN) and back.

For the heck of it, I looked up how many miles were groomed in our trail system last year and it as a little over 33 thousand. That was the highest in the state and more than double what most grant sponsors in MI do and even triple and quadruple what others do in a season. We also have one of the lowest ratios of miles in trail system (233) to groomers in system (5) in the state.

-John
 
K

krupps_resort

New member
In Michigan, if our trails are brushed and properly signed on Dec. 1st, we are paid $90.00 per mile for that brushing and signing.
When we have enough snow to start grooming, it's as Dave stated, for the grooming we are paid $4.22 per mile for each groom.
Superior Snowmobile Club groomers average about 7 MPH for the season. This 7MPH is figured by the total miles groomed for the season divided by the total hours in the groomer.
 
R

Running Bear

New member
Since both the clubs we belong to pay their groomer drivers and we know other clubs that do the same I guess that’s where my question came from. Our club in Michigan receives the same as the others posted… so I guess they have been around a while in order to do what they do for the drivers.

Do the clubs any of you belong to have many members? Do you do any fundraisers? We have a hard time with fundraisers…. us the people in the club that live here spend so much time caring for the trails we find it hard to have the time to run a fundraiser. Do any of you have the same problem? Do you think more club members and fundraisers would help to pay groomers?
 
oldguy

oldguy

Member
Here in MN we are paid by the mile, it is called performance grooming. The pay per mile depends on what part of the state you are located in. The southern part of the state gets about $275.00 per mile, so if they have 100 miles of trails, all they would receive is $27,500 for the entire year. The northern part of the state gets between $500.00 and $650.00 per mile of trails, so they would receive between $50,000.00 and $65,000.00 per year for the same 100 trail miles. This would have to cover all expenses including the purchase of the groomer, fuel, all repairs and anything else that comes up including pay for the groomer drivers, if they do pay them. This per mile is based on one way miles, so if you groom 100 miles and most times you are actually putting on 200 miles, out and back. Every state has a different way to do things, but one thing for sure nobody is getting rich off of it.

Running Bear, in MN we do have a big advantage that most other states including MI does not have. If a club decides they want to make the commitment, they can participate in chartable gambling---PULL TABS. This brings in thousand of extra dollars to the club. The law also requires us to donate a large percentage of our earnings to the community we have the pull tabs in.
 
indy_500

indy_500

Well-known member
the club gets paid back for grooming, i don't see why the groomer should get paid. then again i'm from wisconsin and i know michigan's trail system is a little different
 
J

jr37

Well-known member
In Wisconsin I believe you can not be reimbursed for the time that the operator is in the groomer. The DNR pays so much per mile depending on the width of the drag and the type of power unit pulling it. Any man hours that have anything to do with maintaining the trails are reimbursed, exept grooming. Grooming is a flat rate; power unit, drag, and operator all in one. I believe this to be true, but it has been a few years since I took care of our clubs time sheets.
 
J

jr37

Well-known member
It depends on what you are grooming with. A Tucker with a 9'6" drag will be worth more per hour than a SkiDoo Alpine pulling a 4' drag. The Tucker for instance with a 9'6" drag gets $60 an hour. But there is a maximum amount that each club can recieve, depending on how many miles they maintain and whether or not the trails are open to ATVs or not. Once the max. is met you have to apply for supplement money. That amount is only a percentage and will not be for the full amount that is turned in. On a year that the whole state has snow, that percentage is low. On a low snow year, the percentage goes up.
 
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