Would you recommend your outdoor wood boiler/Why?
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L
lenny
Guest
as soon as I can afford one I am going this route. Gonna run pex tubing in the basement on the underside or the first floor ceiling. I don't like forced air drying out my nose all the time. Up here we don't need central air so away with the forced air. Be sure an get a gasification style if you do go this route. There are downsides to all these systems. I know a guy has an outdoor boiler and recently he went out of town for a week. He ran the propane forced air furnace while he was gone. When he returned from Canada he first started the boiler before he even went in the house. After he went in the house he found the temp to be 22 inside and furnace not working. By starting the boiler with frozen pipes he ruptured the reservoir in the furnace and now it's done. The freeze split many lines in his home (PVC). He bought the system in a poor used condition and had a jumbled up mess to begin with. With a professional install a guy should be good for many many years and that's where they will pay off, just ask JD. The boiler had nothing to do with the problem of frozen pipes. The problem was the electronic thermostat batteries went dead,,,so he says
As long as your willing to get wood and feed it than you should be good, it does require work obviously.
As long as your willing to get wood and feed it than you should be good, it does require work obviously.
toddspolaris
Member
Take a look at the Garn wood boiler systems. I've buned alot of wood and my friends have also. Just had a buddy of mine install one of these Garn to heat his house and floor heat in his 5000 sq ft building. They are expensive but the most awesome wood boiler I've yet to see.
I have the unit from Central Boiler and love it. Here are the tips I would recommend:
1) Keep the boiler as close to what you are heating as possible. I realize that this can mean some smoke near the living quarters, but if you put it on the downwind side of the living quarters (for main heating season), then the smoke will mainly blow away from the quarters. I say to put it close to what you want to heat because you do lose a noticeable amount of heat with the pex runs from the boiler to the structures you want to heat.
2) Get the good pex/insulation for the runs from the boiler to the structures. I opted for the lower end, which consists of basically the 1" pex with large pipe insulation and then a plastic sleeve to keep all of that dry. It works, but I don't think it insulates as well as the other stuff, which is basically pex inside more plastic tubing and the pex is sealed inside the tubing with insulation. I have heard this insulates better.
3) Don't burn trash in the boiler, only wood. I have friends that have burned other things and it ended up causing corrosion and leaks.
4) Make sure your heating system is engineered so that you can switch to a more conventional system later on down the road. I know I do not plan on heating with wood when I am old and not able to make wood and load the boiler.
5) If you don't get a unit from Central Boiler, get one with comparable performance. Again, I have friends that opted to pay less for lower end units from other manufacturers and they go through a lot more wood than I. This causes you to spend more time (and sometime money) for more wood, defeating the purpose of using an outdoor wood boiler in the first place. I guess the bottom line is, you get what you pay for in these things- no matter what the claim is. Pay the extra up front and then let the better performance pay for itself. I know I paid about 3K more for my unit, but it has already paid for that difference in wood usage in the 6 years I have been using it.
-John
1) Keep the boiler as close to what you are heating as possible. I realize that this can mean some smoke near the living quarters, but if you put it on the downwind side of the living quarters (for main heating season), then the smoke will mainly blow away from the quarters. I say to put it close to what you want to heat because you do lose a noticeable amount of heat with the pex runs from the boiler to the structures you want to heat.
2) Get the good pex/insulation for the runs from the boiler to the structures. I opted for the lower end, which consists of basically the 1" pex with large pipe insulation and then a plastic sleeve to keep all of that dry. It works, but I don't think it insulates as well as the other stuff, which is basically pex inside more plastic tubing and the pex is sealed inside the tubing with insulation. I have heard this insulates better.
3) Don't burn trash in the boiler, only wood. I have friends that have burned other things and it ended up causing corrosion and leaks.
4) Make sure your heating system is engineered so that you can switch to a more conventional system later on down the road. I know I do not plan on heating with wood when I am old and not able to make wood and load the boiler.
5) If you don't get a unit from Central Boiler, get one with comparable performance. Again, I have friends that opted to pay less for lower end units from other manufacturers and they go through a lot more wood than I. This causes you to spend more time (and sometime money) for more wood, defeating the purpose of using an outdoor wood boiler in the first place. I guess the bottom line is, you get what you pay for in these things- no matter what the claim is. Pay the extra up front and then let the better performance pay for itself. I know I paid about 3K more for my unit, but it has already paid for that difference in wood usage in the 6 years I have been using it.
-John
May I add that when you run the insulated plex underground from the unit to the structure you "enclose" or box in the plex in the trench and have it spray foamed before you cover it? DO NOT burry the plex in concrete as concrete "sucks" the heat right out of any pipe or plex heating system. And lastly use a good quality Glycol in the closed loop so you have no freeze issues. Do research on the Glycol and make sure you DO NOT use automotive antifreeze. I posted to another thread about frozen pipes here in the past week and added a link to a site all about the types of Glycol for heating systems.
I know you started this thread asking about wood boilers but I thought you would like to have this information as well.
Good Luck with whatever unit you choose,
Wags
I know you started this thread asking about wood boilers but I thought you would like to have this information as well.
Good Luck with whatever unit you choose,
Wags
I had considered doing the same thing this summer, but what I would do is to much money. If you want an efficent model, they cost alot. If you don't mind making alot of wood, the models are more affordable.
From my research, Central Boiler and Portage and Maine are the good ones.
From my research, Central Boiler and Portage and Maine are the good ones.
G
G
Guest
I have the same Central Boiler stove as John Dees. It is set up 110 feet from my house. It heats my house, garage, shop and water heaters. This amounts to a total of 4500 sq feet for house and garage. My shop is 40 by 72 by 16 tall. 2 water heaters. I used top end insulated pipes for the run from the boiler to my house. They are buried five feet deep. I have thermometers on my stove to monitor outgoing temps and comeback temps. I am only losing ten degrees on the house circuit which is very good. I have a plenum heat exchanger in my furnace so I actually do have forced air. You can control humidity with a humidifier. Controlling temps on pex pipe clamped to floor joists can be done but it could require a lot of zone valves. It would be very easy to overheat your house in a hurry with water coming in at 165 - 175 degrees. I have underfloor pex in my shop. I keep it about 60 in there. I have three ceiling fans to blow the air around in the shop. I also have two 100000 btu water to air heat exchangers in the shop which will warm things up in a hurry if the big door gets opened in the dead of winter. The best money you can spend is on insulation. I have a super insulated house and garage. My shop has R-50 in the ceiling and R-35 in the walls. Every single window no matter how expensive is a heat loss so I don't have many windows. I already know what is outside - I don't have to look at it all the time. All in all I truly believe you get what you pay for in a system like this. You can skimp on the boiler itself or you can skimp on the underground lines - there are many ways to skimp. There is only a few ways to do it right. But if you take the time and money to do it right the system will pay for itself in a very short time. If the winter keeps going like it has so far I will end up heating all my stuff for $800 (nine cords of Tamarac delivered to my driveway) plus a few tanks of chainsaw gas to cut it into sizable lengths. Unlike John I plan to keep on burning wood until I am too old to wield a chainsaw. Moving wood around is good excercise. My Central Boiler is guaranteed for 25 years. I have enough boiler antifreeze in the system to protect it to about 0 degrees. However since the system runs through my water heaters the water can't ever get below about 85 degrees even if nobody is home and the wood runs out. The only way this set up can fail is if I run out of LP for the water heaters or there is an extended power failure.
caged_beagle
Member
Great experienced advice so far........
I am happy to see this thread come along. I know there was a similar thread a few months ago but I lost track of it. I was inclined to email John his thoughts because I know he has praised his system in the past. All of this because I plan to install an outside wood boiler hopefully this summer too.
Super information from the previous posters. Keep it coming, please.
_______________________
I am happy to see this thread come along. I know there was a similar thread a few months ago but I lost track of it. I was inclined to email John his thoughts because I know he has praised his system in the past. All of this because I plan to install an outside wood boiler hopefully this summer too.
Super information from the previous posters. Keep it coming, please.
_______________________
G
G
Guest
I bought my Central Boiler in the summer. They had some deal for about $1000 dollars off for the off season. So it was about $8000 bucks. I believe the one I got was the biggest one available except for the pallet burner. Somebody else may not need as big of a boiler but I have a lot of square feet to heat and I live quite a bit further north than a lot of John Dee'ers. Central Boiler has quite a few different options. Central Boiler itself is located only 40 miles away from me and I actually know people that work there. Since thay have gotten going they have done nothing but grow. I am not saying there are not better boilers out there to be had but it sure seems like Central Boiler is on the right track. Pull them on the internet. They have a really good parts catalog. Everything you could possibly need. But again, no matter what you might choose to buy - proper well planned installation goes a long way. It is an expensive system to put in. Don't skimp. Pay the little bit extra to do it right. Once you do that you will have a cheap and reliable heat source for years to come.
I have a Portage and Main boiler ML-30. I am on my third winter. I have the underground pipe that Central Boiler sells. Definitely get the best pipe you can. I am about 80 feet from my house. It feeds a water to air exchanger and then returns to my garage to workshop in my garage with baseboard heaters. I am heating about 1100 sq ft right now (addition plans for the house are in the works). I also heat my domestic water. I do not see any temp drop from my stove to the house. There is no melting snow over my pipes. I have it down three feed and I plow over the top of it. I add wood twice a day. I can't say how much wood I consume because I was burning all summer to heat my water.
Get a good pump. I have a Grundfos pump.
Whatever you end up heating make sure it is insulated well. My dad tried to talk me out of a boiler because of his parents were heating a old house with a good brand stove. They went thru 20 cords of wood in one winter. Once I put in my stove he was shocked to see how little wood I used between his visits.
Get a good pump. I have a Grundfos pump.
Whatever you end up heating make sure it is insulated well. My dad tried to talk me out of a boiler because of his parents were heating a old house with a good brand stove. They went thru 20 cords of wood in one winter. Once I put in my stove he was shocked to see how little wood I used between his visits.
LoveMyDobe
Active member
Woodshed for our Central Boiler
This is a 24 X 24 "pavillian" we built to store our wood for the winter. We also park the sleds or atvs under it. The log splitter is under there too. Also pictures of how we got the same color skeem of the house and pole building.
This is a 24 X 24 "pavillian" we built to store our wood for the winter. We also park the sleds or atvs under it. The log splitter is under there too. Also pictures of how we got the same color skeem of the house and pole building.
G
G
Guest
Mine is a CL 6048. I believe John has the same model but he also has the built in propane back-up. John and I had some good informative chats about our systems last year. It has been awhile since I bought mine. What exactly is an 'E Classic'? If it is the stainless steel lined unit don't bother. As I stated before my standard Classic is warrented for 25 years. I will be dead by then. I am on about 6 cords for the year so far with one month of real winter left. Granted this has not been a normal winter. Wood usage will surely be more with colder temps but this will be true with any system.