Open Up Oil Reserves!

[indy_500]

Already going back up here for the Holiday.....3.44 yesterday!!!!!3.58 today.......more to come tomorow

No Kidding

 

[polarisrider1]

Disagree completly.

Knowing you, I would expect that. Sometimes you got to reinvent the wheel. I have changed gears several times over the years. Everytime moving forward and never looking back. Our system is setup that way. No wonder why I like to play Monopoly.

 

[polarisrider1]

"Suppose that every day 10 men go to a restaurant for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If it was paid the way we pay our taxes, the first four men would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59."

The 10 men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." Now dinner for the 10 only costs $80. The first four are unaffected. They still eat for free. Can you figure out how to divvy up the $20 savings among the remaining six so that everyone gets his fair share? The men realize that $20 divided by 6 is $3.33, buit if they subtract that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meal.

The restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same percentage, being sure to give each a break, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so now the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of $59.

Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," complained the sixth man, pointing to the tenth, "and he got $7!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!"

"That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor."

Then, the nine men surrounded the tenth man (the richest one, paying the most) and beat him up. The next night the richest man didn't show up for dinner, so now the nine men sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They were $52 short!

"And that, boys, girls and college instructors, is how America's tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table any more. There are lots of good restaurants in Switzerland and the Caribbean."

So perfectly put. Totally agree.

 

[Hoosier]

That's over 5k in savings. I don't know about you, but 5k is a good chunk of change. Some may disagree, but I really don't think people are making a heck of a lot less than they did 7 years ago.

It's probably actually more than that, as the price of gas is buried in everything you buy. Plus the effects of ethanol on food.......

 

[indy_500]

It's probably actually more than that, as the price of gas is buried in everything you buy. Plus the effects of ethanol on food.......

You think I would have thought of that at the time of my post, but I didn't! LOL Good catch

 

[polarisrider1]

You think I would have thought of that at the time of my post, but I didn't! LOL Good catch

Nobody likes ethanol on food. Seriously though we do have vacant land that more corn can be grown on. It is about time the farmer gets a decent amount of money for corn. Price out what a farmer invests to get you a bushel of corn, not cheap.

 

[polarisrider1]

The answer is not cheap gas prices. We need to invent alternate sources of energy. Simple solution without a simple answer as to what we will use next. Electric seems to be the way to go for now.

 

[xcr440]

The answer is not cheap gas prices. We need to invent alternate sources of energy. Simple solution without a simple answer as to what we will use next. Electric seems to be the way to go for now.

I completely agree, but this is why we are still dependent on gas, as there is not a viable alternative solution.

98% of transportation in today's world is based on the gasoline/desiel engine. That's the bottom line, and there is no affordable solution on the horizon yet.

Your diaper example however is not a good comparison. Most people will go buy diapers, but, you could use washable sheets or wraps as they did years ago with talcom or baby powder. Maybe not the most sanitary alternative, but a viable alternative.

We all NEED gas/fuel, BIG OIL knows it, and has us all by the nads.

 

[Firecatguy]

The Govt gives BIG money to the oil companies so they can reinvent the wheel......do you think they really are trying???from what I remember Hemp plant has an oil that can be used in motors???why not look that way???

 

[dcsnomo]

There were jobs until around 4 years ago. The 30 years prior to that, all in all, were very good for growth and for jobs.

Exactly!

But given the massive changes in the ages of the prime economic driver (boomers buying s**t), the depletion and eradication of their retirements, and the economy slamming its wallets shut, might it not be reasonable that the manner of running the economy during the 30 years that boomers bought s**t just might not be applicable to 2011 and beyond when boomer aren't buying s**t?

My point was not that supply side economics DIDN'T work, but that given the new economy it WON'T work. Boomers are moving from being contributors to being liabilities. The economic engine of the last 30 years is running out of gas and is now taking from the economy (Social Security, Medicaire).

Look at savings rates (increasing), look at credit card debt levels (decreasing) look at retail sales (decreasing). The money that has made it to the pockets of the general population is not driving growth, it is driving security.

Because of this change in consumer attitudes from consumption to security, relying on 30 year old consumption driving economic policy probably won't work.

I'll bet you a pasty at Krupps that 5 years from now consumer spending is not 70% of the economy, but more like 65%. And that is failed economic policy.

And that is no jobs.

Just sayin'

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article28963.html
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/PSAVERT.txt
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/g19/current/

 

[dcsnomo]

From CBS News

This caught my attention yesterday-

"In a sign of increasing pessimism about the direction of the U.S. economy, roughly four in ten Americans now believes it is in permanent decline, according to a new CBS News/New York Times poll."

the poll is here-
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20075539-503544.html

That's scary. In my 58 years on earth I never thought of the US economy being in permanent decline

 

[squat]

By early afternoon in Europe, benchmark oil for August delivery was down 3 cents to $94.74 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Crude gained $1.88 to settle at $94.77 on Wednesday.

In London, Brent crude for August delivery was off 32 cents at $112.08 on the ICE Futures exchange.

Oil has recovered over the last two days from losses sustained since last Thursday, when the 28-nation International Energy Agency said it would make 60 million barrels of crude from emergency stocks available to help lower prices.

 

[Skylar]

That is like stating the cost of diapers is a tax on a couple with young children. You have options with gas. Take the bus, move close to work and walk, ride a bike. That is what they do in Europe.

Knowing you, I would expect that. Sometimes you got to reinvent the wheel. I have changed gears several times over the years. Everytime moving forward and never looking back. Our system is setup that way. No wonder why I like to play Monopoly.

There is no bus for me to take, you want me to walk the 35 miles to work, you want me to ride a bike the 35 miles to work? Obviously I can't do that, move closer to work so I can do those things, so, I will try to sell my HOME that I have lived in for the last 17 years, in this market, and move closer to work, where I can maybe buy a house the same size as mine for 30g more than what my house is worth, because the new house is in a different county. So instead of doing all that I will, cut back on shopping, cut back on vacations, cut back on eating out, not have a new tile floor installed, etc etc. Along with the other million people or so who will do the same thing, because the higher cost of gas does cut into their budgets. What do you think that will due to the economy? Hmmm, I think that has already been proven.

By the way, I DON"T GIVE A CRAP WHAT THEY DO IN EUROPE.

 

[Admin]

not have a new tile floor installed,

That will be your biggest savings right there. Those tile installers are high payed rip off artists!

-John

 

[whitedust]

By early afternoon in Europe, benchmark oil for August delivery was down 3 cents to $94.74 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Crude gained $1.88 to settle at $94.77 on Wednesday.

In London, Brent crude for August delivery was off 32 cents at $112.08 on the ICE Futures exchange.

Oil has recovered over the last two days from losses sustained since last Thursday, when the 28-nation International Energy Agency said it would make 60 million barrels of crude from emergency stocks available to help lower prices.

Not really watch the cost of Brent Crude that is the stuff they make gasoline. Brent started down again today at market open. Don't know where it will end up but DOW was soaring 100+.
The Market likes where Greece is going now. Europe had to backstop Greek debt same as USA template. We could end up with a very good first half even with all the world turmoil.

 

[xcr440]

There is no bus for me to take, you want me to walk the 35 miles to work, you want me to ride a bike the 35 miles to work? Obviously I can't do that, move closer to work so I can do those things, so, I will try to sell my HOME that I have lived in for the last 17 years, in this market, and move closer to work, where I can maybe buy a house the same size as mine for 30g more than what my house is worth, because the new house is in a different county. So instead of doing all that I will, cut back on shopping, cut back on vacations, cut back on eating out, not have a new tile floor installed, etc etc. Along with the other million people or so who will do the same thing, because the higher cost of gas does cut into their budgets. What do you think that will due to the economy? Hmmm, I think that has already been proven.

By the way, I DON"T GIVE A CRAP WHAT THEY DO IN EUROPE.

Well said Skylar, this is EXACTLY what people are doing, TODAY.

 

[indy_500]

There is no bus for me to take, you want me to walk the 35 miles to work, you want me to ride a bike the 35 miles to work? Obviously I can't do that, move closer to work so I can do those things, so, I will try to sell my HOME that I have lived in for the last 17 years, in this market, and move closer to work, where I can maybe buy a house the same size as mine for 30g more than what my house is worth, because the new house is in a different county. So instead of doing all that I will, cut back on shopping, cut back on vacations, cut back on eating out, not have a new tile floor installed, etc etc. Along with the other million people or so who will do the same thing, because the higher cost of gas does cut into their budgets. What do you think that will due to the economy? Hmmm, I think that has already been proven.

By the way, I DON"T GIVE A CRAP WHAT THEY DO IN EUROPE.

Me and Skylar agree on something

 

[indy_500]

That will be your biggest savings right there. Those tile installers are high payed rip off artists!

-John

LOL! I got my laugh for the day.

 

[Hoosier]

The answer is not cheap gas prices. We need to invent alternate sources of energy. Simple solution without a simple answer as to what we will use next. Electric seems to be the way to go for now.

Well, the government is pouring countless amounts of future taxpayer's money into inventing alternative sources of energy, and there is little return on that investment, at least for now. And I don't see that getting better anytime soon. I read that every gallon of ethanol that is pumped in this country costs the taxpayers $1.78 in subsidies. That's a terrible waste of money. At the same time, we have plentiful reserves of oil and even more of natural gas. Electricity is predominantly from coal. Fossil fuels are the most efficient forms of energy we have right now, and I think exploiting them is the answer. This isn't Europe - people aren't nearly as clustered into small geographical areas and transportation costs are therefore more of an issue. I think cheap energy prices absolutely are the answer. Just my opinion.

Sure, people would be better off not buying a 6,000 lb SUV for commuting 50 miles to the office, but the CAFE standards with the truck exemptions are what drove that craze.

 

[Hoosier]

Exactly!

But given the massive changes in the ages of the prime economic driver (boomers buying s**t), the depletion and eradication of their retirements, and the economy slamming its wallets shut, might it not be reasonable that the manner of running the economy during the 30 years that boomers bought s**t just might not be applicable to 2011 and beyond when boomer aren't buying s**t?

My point was not that supply side economics DIDN'T work, but that given the new economy it WON'T work. Boomers are moving from being contributors to being liabilities. The economic engine of the last 30 years is running out of gas and is now taking from the economy (Social Security, Medicaire).

Look at savings rates (increasing), look at credit card debt levels (decreasing) look at retail sales (decreasing). The money that has made it to the pockets of the general population is not driving growth, it is driving security.

Because of this change in consumer attitudes from consumption to security, relying on 30 year old consumption driving economic policy probably won't work.

I'll bet you a pasty at Krupps that 5 years from now consumer spending is not 70% of the economy, but more like 65%. And that is failed economic policy.

And that is no jobs.

Just sayin'

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article28963.html
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/PSAVERT.txt
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/g19/current/

You make some very good points to consider, what stood out to me in particular was about the boomers going from being contributors to becoming a liability. Here's a related question: When you (and others) quote that consumer spending is a certain % of the economy, what makes up the rest? Most business investment I would assume is essentially consumer-driven in the end. Is the rest infrastructure? Defense? Government research? Just wondering what else makes up the non-consumer components.

I don't know if I'd take your bet, but I would like to plan on getting a pasty at Krupps in 5 years.