Military Hill Issue AGAIN!

H

Hoosier

Well-known member
Team Elkhorn said:
Again, IMO the sport is killing itself. More times than I can count, I've seen guys come on here asking, "I've just purchased a new long track sled. I'm really excited! Where can I ride it?" More times than not the response is, "Get educated and figure it out yourself." Thats like NOT printing trail maps or marking the trails and being surprised when people wander around where they're not supposed to. Its pizzing people off and setting the sport up to fail.
While I'm certainly not against legally boondocking up north, heck it saves traffic on the trails. I am horrified when the local neighborhood kids that have been buzzing up and down my road on their ZRs and XCRs, recently graduated to older, piped, Ms and RMKs. I have no idea where they think they're going to be riding those in SE Wisconsin? Its long past the point of blaming the tree huggers, and its time for us to be proactive about saving the sport.
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Agree 100%. Off-trail riding has taken over from the loud pipes from 10-15 years back in terms of causing headaches for the sport. When you drive through South Range and see all the 160" 2" paddles, you wonder where they are planning to go ride legally or if they have any idea where is legal and not. If they are all staying on trail, the paddles make it tough on the groomer. I know those on this site aren't the problem.
 
SledTL

SledTL

Active member
Team Elkhorn said:
Again, IMO the sport is killing itself. More times than I can count, I've seen guys come on here asking, "I've just purchased a new long track sled. I'm really excited! Where can I ride it?" More times than not the response is, "Get educated and figure it out yourself." Thats like NOT printing trail maps or marking the trails and being surprised when people wander around where they're not supposed to. Its pizzing people off and setting the sport up to fail.
While I'm certainly not against legally boondocking up north, heck it saves traffic on the trails. I am horrified when the local neighborhood kids that have been buzzing up and down my road on their ZRs and XCRs, recently graduated to older, piped, Ms and RMKs. I have no idea where they think they're going to be riding those in SE Wisconsin? Its long past the point of blaming the tree huggers, and its time for us to be proactive about saving the sport.
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Don't these types of sleds ride terrible on the trails?? Don't see why you would buy a mountain sled for the flattest place on the earth.
 
T

Team Elkhorn

Guest
SledTL said:
Don't these types of sleds ride terrible on the trails?? Don't see why you would buy a mountain sled for the flattest place on the earth.
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:) You're about their age, you might know better than an old guy like me. Mountain sleds are the latest trend in sleds?:confused:
My boys wanted snowcross sleds when they were growing up. They got 300 and 340 Enticers instead.;)


Sorry about the hijack.
 
S

snobuilder

Well-known member
kwikgren said:
It's also easy and self-serving to deny the truth. Having worked on the land and in the forests of the Upper Peninsula for the past 35 years, I have an intimate knowledge and understanding of the soils and landscapes of the region, including the area along the Ontonagon River in the vicinity of Military Hill. If you dig a 6 foot deep hole up there you will find evidence of rotational slumping and landslide including buried trees and forest debris. It is one of the most active and susceptible landscapes in the U.P., and the process of land movement has been going on long before people even existed up here and is ongoing. It is wise to try to protect this area as much as possible, because the danger of triggering or accelerating these natural processes is very real.

Please spare me the global warming jokes, but just because the climate of the earth is naturally changing and has been for a long time before man doesn't mean that we don't have a profound impact on our environment. Some great forests that have been clear cut have never grown back because the soils eroded and the microclimate changed. Areas that once had great agriculture are now deserts because the natural balance was irreversibly upset. The jokes aren't so funny if you find yourself without food or any way to get it. I know it's a hard opinion to believe, but I for one am appreciative and thankful for the security and comfort that we currently enjoy in this country, and try not to take it for granted.

Public lands need to be managed for the overall good, not special interests, which I think requires a little compromise on both sides of the issue here.

Also, until all land ownership is nationalized in the United States of America, people still have the right to own and control private property in this country. Some of these rights are compromised by laws that provide tax breaks or are sold or leased out in the form of easements. If people refuse to minimize their impact, and respect landowner's wishes, don't be too surprised if more and more private land owners start exercising their rights.
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Did anyone else read this?

wholy crud, kwikgrin...you just doubled down, going from a couple snowmobile tracks closing down a highway, on to predicting lack of food, starvation and needing the feds to eventually control ALL property so as to prevent your unsubstantiated predictions from happening....yur one scary dude.

let me know when you plan on posting some proof of the devastation .....BTW I am an environmentalist ....I love my environment.:)
 
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S

snobuilder

Well-known member
Just want to thank alla my fellow sledders for posting there locations in there headings...it helps give some perspective as to where you are coming from with your posts.
 
SledTL

SledTL

Active member
indy_500 said:
*2.4* :p

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The western UP/Keweenaw is NOT so very flat.
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That is true, but think of how manny people ride in the keweenaw compared to all the sleds in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota Wisconsin, indianna, Ohio, and lower michigan....mainly flat trails
 
K

kwikgren

Member
snobuilder said:
Did anyone else read this?

wholy crud, kwikgrin...you just doubled down, going from a couple snowmobile tracks closing down a highway, on to predicting lack of food, starvation and needing the feds to eventually control ALL property so as to prevent your unsubstantiated predictions from happening....yur one scary dude.

let me know when you plan on posting some proof of the devastation .....BTW I am an environmentalist ....I love my environment.:)
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I think you're missing my point. I don't want pictures of any devastation. I don't want any devastation to occur in the first place. I don't want the feds to take over anyone's land, I just want people to respect private property.

Back to topic. My suggestion is to try to keep the trail open through there if at all possible. These important corridors are hard to replace once lost. I do not know if it would work, but signs could be posted on both ends of that stretch that say "All off trail riding prohibited next X miles. Please report any and all violations by calling X phone number (911 may or may not be appropriate in this case, maybe a hotline could be set up)". If an honest effort is made, and the impacts decrease, it might help with the landowners.

Sadly, I don't see the overall situation improving. Just moving on and occurring elsewhere. When I drove home from Ironwood on Saturday, the tracks were indeed drifting over right by the road, but there were tracks down to the dirt visible farther down the valley, and snowmachines were ripping up the roadside heading into South Range with a sled rolling down the hill as I drove by. And then right in Houghton there were tracks all over the hillside below the rest home even with the signs posted every 30 feet. There is a great base right now, but once the habit of trespassing is established, others will follow later on when it gets thinner, and even worse the ATV's will follow. Those hills all have ATV ruts underneath the snow right now from last fall.

By the way, I live in Keweenaw County, Michigan and own land and pay taxes here. I also own land and pay taxes in Wisconsin. I've lived and worked in Upper Michigan for 35 years and am now retired and really enjoy those short, but wonderful interludes of peace and quiet when all the tourists stay away. Not that I don't like tourists, I just appreciate those short, but wonderful interludes...I
 
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indy_500

indy_500

Well-known member
SledTL said:
That is true, but think of how manny people ride in the keweenaw compared to all the sleds in Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota Wisconsin, indianna, Ohio, and lower michigan....mainly flat trails
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Since I do all my riding in the WUP and Kewee but live in Central WI that means I shouldn't have a 144x2? I don't get what you're saying.
 
D

dawolf

New member
It seems that these very capable long track sleds are both a blessing and a curse to the sport. Lots of young riders like them, but many of these same riders seem to lack the respect or at least a lack of understanding of what it takes to build and keep trails. We need to discourage the purchase of long track machines in areas where thy really can't be used to their full potential without infringing on everyone's enjoyment of the trails and without ones own personal land. Sadly we just need to stay on the trail in the Midwest.

Maybe there needs to be a tax on any sale of sleds with tracks longer than 145 inches to discourage their use? New, used, or private sale would have an additional 15% user tax.

To reel in the out of staters there would be a special long track trail permit. It would cost 1000 per season , 2'x2', bright pink, and must be attached to the windshield where it is more likely to be destroyed going off trail. Do t have a windshield? No prob it must be attached to a bracket in place of the windshield which can be purchased at great expense and isn't cool
. The fine for not having a sticker? 2000. Of course you don't need any of this if riding on your own land.

I know this idea won't be real popular with some but somethings gotta give.
 
P

polarisrider1

New member
dawolf said:
It seems that these very capable long track sleds are both a blessing and a curse to the sport. Lots of young riders like them, but many of these same riders seem to lack the respect or at least a lack of understanding of what it takes to build and keep trails. We need to discourage the purchase of long track machines in areas where thy really can't be used to their full potential without infringing on everyone's enjoyment of the trails and without ones own personal land. Sadly we just need to stay on the trail in the Midwest.

Maybe there needs to be a tax on any sale of sleds with tracks longer than 145 inches to discourage their use? New, used, or private sale would have an additional 15% user tax.

To reel in the out of staters there would be a special long track trail permit. It would cost 1000 per season , 2'x2', bright pink, and must be attached to the windshield where it is more likely to be destroyed going off trail. Do t have a windshield? No prob it must be attached to a bracket in place of the windshield which can be purchased at great expense and isn't cool
. The fine for not having a sticker? 2000. Of course you don't need any of this if riding on your own land.

I know this idea won't be real popular with some but somethings gotta give.
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I suspect this is humor??
 
D

dawolf

New member
polarisrider1 said:
I suspect this is humor??[/

No humor, just an idea, well the pink sticker thing a bit of humor. if you need more than 144" to get there you probably shouldn't be there, unless you're out west or on your own land.

Signs and fences don't seem to stop these sleds, but a ding to the wallet just might.

Govt has been discouraging bad behavior with high taxes for years. Look at alcohol, cigs, tanning beds, etc

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srt20 said:
I would hope so!


I own 2 mtn sleds, 156 and 163. Though neither are even registered here. I have a trail sled, a 136 for the Midwest.
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Exactly, 136 is for the midwest, go tear everything up out west on the long tracks not Watersmeet.
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srt20

srt20

Active member
You should work for obummer. I'm not saying people should be tearing up any land in the UP, i don't even know where military hill is, I don't ride hardly ever in the UP. But what you have proposed is ridiculous. You want me to pay extra tax because someone else is an idiot??
 
srt20

srt20

Active member
Here's an idea instead of your taxing mtn sleds;

RAISE THE MI TRAIL PERMIT.

$150 a year sounds about right....
 
T

timo

Well-known member
you cannot possibly be serious?!?!




dawolf said:
It seems that these very capable long track sleds are both a blessing and a curse to the sport. Lots of young riders like them, but many of these same riders seem to lack the respect or at least a lack of understanding of what it takes to build and keep trails. We need to discourage the purchase of long track machines in areas where thy really can't be used to their full potential without infringing on everyone's enjoyment of the trails and without ones own personal land. Sadly we just need to stay on the trail in the Midwest.

Maybe there needs to be a tax on any sale of sleds with tracks longer than 145 inches to discourage their use? New, used, or private sale would have an additional 15% user tax.

To reel in the out of staters there would be a special long track trail permit. It would cost 1000 per season , 2'x2', bright pink, and must be attached to the windshield where it is more likely to be destroyed going off trail. Do t have a windshield? No prob it must be attached to a bracket in place of the windshield which can be purchased at great expense and isn't cool
. The fine for not having a sticker? 2000. Of course you don't need any of this if riding on your own land.

I know this idea won't be real popular with some but somethings gotta give.
Click to expand...
 
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