Holy xxxx, i mean holy shot!

[shelby369]

I stayed in Greenland near Pat's all last week. Rode the whole western side of copper country. There were oodles of riders, more so than we normally see on this week...(not on the weekend either) Put on 760 miles. I can honestly say I saw lots of Ski Doo's in general but lots of other stuff too. I counted probably 10-15 SW's and about 4-5 new TCats and roughly 10-15 new 850's. They are not hard to miss with the Donald Duck looking front end.

You made me laugh .........THX

 

[momoney2123]

You made me laugh .........THX

I believe in that area there would be more SW's than where I ride. I guess the proof will be in the pudding, if doo loses share or thinks the turbo 4s sleds has a big enough market, they will enter and they will...yea you know

 

[kip]

We would go back and forth all day long XXX007 and you didn't insult me and far from embarrassed me, LOL!!! My skin is thicker than that. Like I said, I respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. School has been out a long time for me momoney, you're a dandy LOL!

 

[ridindirty800]

I go on our club trip every year with between 50-65 sleds. Majority Ski Doo and Polaris, about 6 Cats and zero yamaha's. Now I am A Ski Doo guy since 2005, Polaris before that. On our trip this year we had a 2007 ski doo burn down, a 2016 Enduro 600 e tec with less then 1,500 miles. Also had a 2012 Rush go, and a 2017 Polaris axis 800 with 2,220 miles. Also lost an engine in one of the cats. They all fail I don't care what brand you buy. That is why i went to a 4 stroke, for the dependability. The weight makes no difference to me when I am looking at a blown motor with 3 days left in a trip. Knock on wood it has been good to me. I agree with Kip, no junk out there, and every brand will have there issues. I am happy Ski Doo did not up grade there 4 strokes as I have no reason to look into purchasing a new 2018. If you were to build a perfect sled you would end up taking something from all 4 sleds I am sure.

 

[Hoosier]

Don't mean to insult your intelligence or embarrass you, but have you studied college level economics? Forget college, just use common sense, IF the product were superior, regardless of price, the market WOULD buy more of them, and thus their market share would increase beyond 7%. Apple I-Phone is probably most expensive, and are number one in market share because it's THE BEST phone. Econ 101/102. Toyota Motor Co, Honda Motors...the list goes on. Toyota didn't enter market as number one, but their quality/functionality was so SUPERIOR, their market share steadily surpassed GM & Ford. Schools out - believe what you want.

I studied econ before too. Actually price is a very key factor in determining quantity demand on your supply & demand curves...

So for your example - why is the Tundra so far behind in sales to GM & Ford trucks?

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

Of course price influences demand....ref "elasticity of demand" previously discussed.
Answer is, because people prefer F150 & Silverado in that sliver of market segment, based on functionality, quality and price, but overall manufacturer prod line, consumer demand places Toyota No.1.

 

[Hoosier]

Of course price influences demand....ref "elasticity of demand" previously discussed.
Answer is, because people prefer F150 & Silverado in that sliver of market segment, based on functionality, quality and price, but overall manufacturer prod line, consumer demand places Toyota No.1.

Just saying that in reference to you saying "IF the product were superior, regardless of price, the market WOULD buy more of them." You seem to be saying price isn't a factor but maybe I misread you.

 

[eagle1]

$600 and holds a charge for 1/2 hr. Lmao. I'd stick with pull start.

 

[ddhanna]

I studied econ before too. Actually price is a very key factor in determining quantity demand on your supply & demand curves...

So for your example - why is the Tundra so far behind in sales to GM & Ford trucks?

Agree with the Tundra example as I have one. Also applies to cars. Just got into a BMW and it is by far the most superior vehicle I have owned but their market share is nothing. Maybe XXX007 was sleeping in college? Wish BMW would make sleds....

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

I think it's interesting, and why I prolong the discussion. People actually do write books on this stuff - LOL! As I said, price is a factor in the discussion, but it's only ONE of many drivers of demand.
I think it's telling that even though 2-strokes still do go "BOOM", despite strides made in quality, the consumer is still willing to take the risk, because the other components of the product platform are so vastly superior. Says it all!

 

[momoney2123]

$600 and holds a charge for 1/2 hr. Lmao. I'd stick with pull start.

I bet you'd pay 600 bucks if you were sitting at the bottom of a mountain and an avalanche breaks....you wanna pull start or push and go?


But either way..200 bucks more than electric start and 20lbs weight savings. off trail guys will eat that up.

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

Actually DDhanna, the reason BMW has relatively small market share, and doesn't grow, is because they are vastly over-priced for the quality you pay for. There is no prejudice in supply/demand/market share.
Check it out - they are not high quality motors/vehicles. They ALL burn oil - it's a known fact. I talk to a guy that owns one every day, and he's torn on getting rid of it because doesn't want the car payment on a Lexus or Acura. LOL

 

[Wong]

Kip you are right, all four manufacturers make good products. Every persons perspective on what works for them is and will continue to be different. Kip is also correct that BRP has great sales numbers based on other things beyond making a good product. This is similar to Polaris ATV sales being great until you remove government sales from the total. Arctic Cat is moving from a small company to being part of a multi billion dollar Corporation. With the right investment Cat could easily become a major player again. Cats future owner is a master of MBM (Market Based Management), and their input could rapidly turn Cat into a major thorn in BRP and Polaris side. Kip, I have a college degree also but it doesn't make me an expert in the powersports business. No college degree is going to replace the hands on family taught business sense you have. You see all makes and models everyday and I would trust your perspective before I would trust a college degree talking out of is a$$.

 

[eagle1]

I bet you'd pay 600 bucks if you were sitting at the bottom of a mountain and an avalanche breaks....you wanna pull start or push and go?
.

Lol But what if you were down there for over 1/2hr then your screwed?
But Doos are so great they only need quarter pull anways, right?

 

[momoney2123]

I think its pretty rare mountain guys are sitting around for a half hour. Just sayin...

this isn't designed for trail riders. and you can actually kick an etecs clutch and it will start.

 

[journeyman]

I think it's interesting, and why I prolong the discussion. People actually do write books on this stuff - LOL! As I said, price is a factor in the discussion, but it's only ONE of many drivers of demand.
I think it's telling that even though 2-strokes still do go "BOOM", despite strides made in quality, the consumer is still willing to take the risk, because the other components of the product platform are so vastly superior. Says it all!

Really, like their lightweight bulkheads that rip apart when you hit something that doesn't phase other sleds? Come on, your yellow goggles are getting rather blinding. How about their rattling clutches,their expensive belts known to grenade and expensive 2 stroke oil??......How about an 800 engine that has trouble making 5000 miles? We can all find pluses and minuses to every brand.

Other manufactures have had their day in the sun too. What the common thread usually is when a certain mfg. is leading in sales is they offer the most different options on several machines. If you look at their product line they usually have oodles of choices on just few motor platforms, track lengths,track lug hts., 2 up seats, ES and Rev, saddle bags, different shock packages, different windshields, the list goes on. But all in all they have the MOST models. Polaris was that way in the 1990's.

 

[Skylar]

I think its pretty rare mountain guys are sitting around for a half hour. Just sayin...

this isn't designed for trail riders. and you can actually kick an etecs clutch and it will start.

Lol. You don't think mountain riders take breaks, eat lunch, dig somebody out from a bad stuck?

 

[momoney2123]

Lol. You don't think mountain riders take breaks, eat lunch, dig somebody out from a bad stuck?

Half hour seems like awhile, but yea I get your point..i guess if you sit around for longer than that and the shot doesn't work, welp you will have to use a pull chord.

 

[timo]

LOL,,,
Guys are jumping doo to get a sidewinder and TCat. LOL,,,,,, where do you people get this malarkey from???
You been riding a snowmobile this year anywhere???? I can count on one hand how many SW's I've seen.

child puhlease,,,

Ski Doo isn't covering the whole market though. There is/was a good number of Ski Doo riders over on DooTalk that were yelling at the top of their lungs for Ski Doo to produce a 1200 turbo model but SD refuses to do so. They do not want to show up their top line 2s E-Tec models. A good portion of those guys have jumped ship and are now buying or already have bought the SW or the new TCat.

I have no doubt the new SD's ride good but so do the new SW's, been on them myself. As for competitive in the straightaways.......sorry but the new SW/TCat is hands down much faster. No contest. To be honest the 850's are relatively the same as the previous 800 ETec in performance. Not any faster than my well dialed 136 Apex. Been there and done that too.

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amen,,,
it's such a quality product no one wants to buy it I guess,,,lol,,,,

Don't mean to insult your intelligence or embarrass you, but have you studied college level economics? Forget college, just use common sense, IF the product were superior, regardless of price, the market WOULD buy more of them, and thus their market share would increase beyond 7%. Apple I-Phone is probably most expensive, and are number one in market share because it's THE BEST phone. Econ 101/102. Toyota Motor Co, Honda Motors...the list goes on. Toyota didn't enter market as number one, but their quality/functionality was so SUPERIOR, their market share steadily surpassed GM & Ford. Schools out - believe what you want.

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well because its a tundra.
don't overthink it.

I studied econ before too. Actually price is a very key factor in determining quantity demand on your supply & demand curves...

So for your example - why is the Tundra so far behind in sales to GM & Ford trucks?

 

[Hoosier]

I bet you'd pay 600 bucks if you were sitting at the bottom of a mountain and an avalanche breaks....you wanna pull start or push and go?


But either way..200 bucks more than electric start and 20lbs weight savings. off trail guys will eat that up.

Now it's a safety feature...