Hello, I am in need of some advise. I have to replace the rings on my 2006 600 HO SDI. Can someone tell me if they be replaced without removing the whole motor from the sled? Any suggestions for a place besides Ski Doo to get a rebuild kit from? Also any advise on where to get the gaskets from would be very helpful as well. Thank you.
2006 600 HO SDI Renegade
- Thread starter Forcontom
- Start date
improved700
New member
Yes rings can be replaced with engine still in machine.
Question. How do you know rings need to be replaced?
Why not but Skidoo parts?
For sure, I would buy Skidoo gaskets, as I have had troubles with aftermarket gaskets.
I will have to look in my service manual for 2006 SDI, but I don't think they use cageless needle bearings.
If they do you need to be VERY careful when removing and installing the wrist pin bearings.
Do you have experience with a top end rebuild? If so, you should be fine.
If not, I would HIGHLY recommend downloading a service manual as a reference.
Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions.
Kev
Question. How do you know rings need to be replaced?
Why not but Skidoo parts?
For sure, I would buy Skidoo gaskets, as I have had troubles with aftermarket gaskets.
I will have to look in my service manual for 2006 SDI, but I don't think they use cageless needle bearings.
If they do you need to be VERY careful when removing and installing the wrist pin bearings.
Do you have experience with a top end rebuild? If so, you should be fine.
If not, I would HIGHLY recommend downloading a service manual as a reference.
Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions.
Kev
What does your compression test show? SDI engines did not have a ring problem, except the very early builds. 2004's. I have seen very high miles, and still very strong compression. I have 2 with 10,000 plus, no touch.
I checked it 2 different ways. I got the motor hot and checked them both and they were 119. put a little oil in both the cylinders and rechecked them. 1 was 126 and held there and the other one remained at 119. My sled has 14000 miles on it and has never been touched either.
Kev,
I watched a video on removing the wrist pin bearings. I saw they used some kind of puller to remove them. Do you know if it is nessasary to have a tool like that or do they just slide out.
Thanks,
Scott
improved700
New member
Hi Scott,
Congrats on 14,000 miles. So much for 2 strokes not going as long as a 4 stroke!.
As far as compression, I would think a new tight SDI motor would be in the 140 to 145 range.
More importantly would be the difference between cylinders. Personally I do not like to see more that 5% to 8% difference between sides.
So 126 to 119 is right on the fringe of where I would do the top end.
Are you thinking pistons and rings?
The tool you saw was most likely a wrist pin remover. It is used to press out the wrist pin, leaving the bearing inside the top
of the piston rod. Is is necessary? Always having the right tool for the job will make things easier, but a deep well sockets, that is just a tad
smaller than the pin, with some light taps of a hammer, while holding the piston in your hand achieves the same result.
According to the service manual, they use cage-less needle bearings.
If that is the case, you should see a sticker on the side of the cylinder stating that.
Those can be a bugger, but if you are careful, you can do it.
As far as price, a quick look through my dealer:
Skidoo Piston, Rings, Needle Bearings, Wrist Pin Circlip - $490 bucks.
Through in a Ski Doo top end gasket kit - $80 bucks -
Through in a Ski Doo Rave gasket set - $20 bucks
You are all in for close to $600 using factory parts, which has lasted you 14000 miles originally.
Going to Dennis Kirk they have a Weisco top end kit with gaskets for $380, but no wrist pin bearings.
So through new wrist pin bearings in and your at $425.
So there is a $175 difference. $175 is alot of money. But is it really when looking at another 3000-4000 miles?
Whats the rest of the sled like? Have you replaced clutch springs, suspension components?
Sorry for the long winded answer.... hope it helps.
Kev
Congrats on 14,000 miles. So much for 2 strokes not going as long as a 4 stroke!.
As far as compression, I would think a new tight SDI motor would be in the 140 to 145 range.
More importantly would be the difference between cylinders. Personally I do not like to see more that 5% to 8% difference between sides.
So 126 to 119 is right on the fringe of where I would do the top end.
Are you thinking pistons and rings?
The tool you saw was most likely a wrist pin remover. It is used to press out the wrist pin, leaving the bearing inside the top
of the piston rod. Is is necessary? Always having the right tool for the job will make things easier, but a deep well sockets, that is just a tad
smaller than the pin, with some light taps of a hammer, while holding the piston in your hand achieves the same result.
According to the service manual, they use cage-less needle bearings.
If that is the case, you should see a sticker on the side of the cylinder stating that.
Those can be a bugger, but if you are careful, you can do it.
As far as price, a quick look through my dealer:
Skidoo Piston, Rings, Needle Bearings, Wrist Pin Circlip - $490 bucks.
Through in a Ski Doo top end gasket kit - $80 bucks -
Through in a Ski Doo Rave gasket set - $20 bucks
You are all in for close to $600 using factory parts, which has lasted you 14000 miles originally.
Going to Dennis Kirk they have a Weisco top end kit with gaskets for $380, but no wrist pin bearings.
So through new wrist pin bearings in and your at $425.
So there is a $175 difference. $175 is alot of money. But is it really when looking at another 3000-4000 miles?
Whats the rest of the sled like? Have you replaced clutch springs, suspension components?
Sorry for the long winded answer.... hope it helps.
Kev
Kev,
I really appreciate any advise i can get. I found an SPI rebuild kit ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-SKI-DO...IT-/381901256527?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 ) Not sure if that's a good brand or not. The rest of the sled is in good shape. In the last 2 years i replaced rear shock and springs, track, and misc bushings and wheels. Yearly maintenance of crank case cleaning, exhaust knives etc. I don't plan on keeping it for more then probably another 2000-3000 miles or so. Where would you recommend getting a service manual for this.
Thanks,
Scott
- - - Updated - - -
Kev,
I really appreciate any advise i can get. I found an SPI rebuild kit ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-SKI-DO...IT-/381901256527?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 ) Not sure if that's a good brand or not. The rest of the sled is in good shape. In the last 2 years i replaced rear shock and springs, track, and misc bushings and wheels. Yearly maintenance of crank case cleaning, exhaust knives etc. I don't plan on keeping it for more then probably another 2000-3000 miles or so. Where would you recommend getting a service manual for this.
Thanks,
Scott
Looking at www.pistondealer.com. They have the WISECO upper end rebuild kit for $322.05. This kit includes pistons, rings, wrist pins, wrist pin clips and a complete upper end rebuild gasket kit.
The wrist pin bearings (cage style) are $16.26 Ea.
The wrist pin bearings (cage style) are $16.26 Ea.
???????????? He never mentioned fouling the plugs? I have 2 SDI 600's, and have never fouled a plug in either. Neither has 14,000 miles, but getting there. I do believe the compression should be around 135. If you have that much difference cylinder to cylinder, it need to be refreshed. You might try Bill Cudney racing for a kit, as he is very sharp on Doo's. You will have to very careful as to the cage less piston pin bearings. Good luck to you. I love those SDI engines. They the most reliable 2 stroke IMO.
I forgot to mention the plugs fouling out. Ratleaker is my friend who is going to help me with this project. I bought this sled from him a few years ago. It is a very reliable engine, I love this sled. I will check out Bill Cudney, thanks Abe.
raceinsnow
New member
With 14000 miles on that motor I would remove and rebuild the whole motor. The crank needs to be rebuilt. And the seals are probably bad on the crank. Check the carb boots also.
chicagosledder
New member
If you do not rebuild the whole motor and only decide to replace the rings, make sure you do not drop any of the needle bearings down into the lower end. The tolerances are so close that one falling down there will stop the motor from turning over.
improved700
New member
Scott,
Service manual can be downloaded from here.
http://brpmanuals.com/skidoo-manual.htm
The best $8.50 you could ever spend.... well maybe not the best, but you know what I mean....
The SPI kit on ebay would be fine. I would at least buy base gaskets from Ski Doo and not use the Winderosa that are in the kit.
The Weisco kit is good, and again, I would buys Ski Doo base gaskets.
Now.... if plugs are fouling you may have more going on other than low compression.
Regarding doing the whole motor, now you are looking at $1500, the motor needs to come out, and if you have never
tackled something like that, perhaps it might be over your head. If you take it to a shop, you would be looking at $2000.
You could look at CV Tech for a re-manufactured short block.
Glad you and the previous owner kept up on the general maintenance.
If you are planning on keeping it for another year or 2, then I would do top end.
If your planning on long term, then perhaps a complete motor would be worth it.
Or.... wait till spring and pony up for a new left over at a bargain price.
Good luck!
Kev
Service manual can be downloaded from here.
http://brpmanuals.com/skidoo-manual.htm
The best $8.50 you could ever spend.... well maybe not the best, but you know what I mean....
The SPI kit on ebay would be fine. I would at least buy base gaskets from Ski Doo and not use the Winderosa that are in the kit.
The Weisco kit is good, and again, I would buys Ski Doo base gaskets.
Now.... if plugs are fouling you may have more going on other than low compression.
Regarding doing the whole motor, now you are looking at $1500, the motor needs to come out, and if you have never
tackled something like that, perhaps it might be over your head. If you take it to a shop, you would be looking at $2000.
You could look at CV Tech for a re-manufactured short block.
Glad you and the previous owner kept up on the general maintenance.
If you are planning on keeping it for another year or 2, then I would do top end.
If your planning on long term, then perhaps a complete motor would be worth it.
Or.... wait till spring and pony up for a new left over at a bargain price.
Good luck!
Kev
Kev,
I think i am just going to do the SPI top end. I will get the ski doo base gasket though. I hope to get a bargain leftover this spring or next. Thank you for all your help. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Scott
u do know u need to bring jugs in to get honed right? pretty cheep no more than 40 for both holes I pay 15 for a diamond hone at my guys shop. stuff those jug holes with rags tight just in case a bearing drops.
I don't tap my sockets with a hammer to remove wrist pin . I use a deep well to push out pin and a large deep well big enough for pin to go in to on other side then I use a clamp grab both sockets and start clamping.
I don't tap my sockets with a hammer to remove wrist pin . I use a deep well to push out pin and a large deep well big enough for pin to go in to on other side then I use a clamp grab both sockets and start clamping.
improved700
New member
10-4 Scott.
Sounds like a good plan.
Good luck and let me know how it goes!
kev
Sounds like a good plan.
Good luck and let me know how it goes!
kev
So we rebuilt the top end today. Got it all put back together. It fired right up but we have a flashing check engine light. We double checked to see if we had everything plugged back in. Any idea what it might be? Also, does the coolant system need to be bled since there is air in the system now from taking the hoses off. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott