2017 Yamaha Sidewinder Coming to Pat's Motorsports!!!!
- Thread starter kip
- Start date
Good point; what is the actual sales price of the cheapest 2017 Sidewinder XTX SE with a base MSRP $15,599?
Anyone of us can buy a 2016 Viper XTX SE with a MSRP of $13,399 for $8,949 (that is $4,450 of MSRP). This price only requires one to add tax and registration as setup and all other fees are included.
Could you imagine buying a first year Viper without rebates, OUI VEE.
Bear
Happy Easter to all first off! Thanks to all who showed up for the Sidewinder display!! It was a huge success
5 more Sidewinders were snow checked today!!! It's funny the whole price deal, you know I'm a Polaris snowmobile dealer too and most of my snowchecks range from 13,500 to 16,500 when people are done building it the way they want it, it's much like boating, not everyone is buying based on price. Like my dad always said, there's an *** for every seat You can buy a Sidewinder for 13,995 up to mid to high 15's. That's not bad at all for a Factory built 204 HP sled, just saying. For as many skeptics out there, there are many more optimists It's flat out selling guys Also, it was a horrible winter for even dealers in the U.P. These deals won't last forever so if you're a bargain basement shopper I suggest you buy now. Snowmobiling is lots of fun and unfortunately it can cost lots of money so we all just have to deal with it Thanks for all the support and input whether it's good or bad I asked for 200 HP over 3 years ago when corporate was in my office. I never thought we would get it but was I ever wrong. Did I say that out loud
5 more Sidewinders were snow checked today!!! It's funny the whole price deal, you know I'm a Polaris snowmobile dealer too and most of my snowchecks range from 13,500 to 16,500 when people are done building it the way they want it, it's much like boating, not everyone is buying based on price. Like my dad always said, there's an *** for every seat You can buy a Sidewinder for 13,995 up to mid to high 15's. That's not bad at all for a Factory built 204 HP sled, just saying. For as many skeptics out there, there are many more optimists It's flat out selling guys Also, it was a horrible winter for even dealers in the U.P. These deals won't last forever so if you're a bargain basement shopper I suggest you buy now. Snowmobiling is lots of fun and unfortunately it can cost lots of money so we all just have to deal with it Thanks for all the support and input whether it's good or bad I asked for 200 HP over 3 years ago when corporate was in my office. I never thought we would get it but was I ever wrong. Did I say that out loud
boomer
Member
Happy Easter to you Kip and family and crew. It's great to hear your Sidewinder event was a success. I'm counting down the days until mine arrives at your shop. Please give us a hint as to what else you asked for the last time someone from corporate was visiting with you
I'm just blown away that new models like the Sidewinder from Yamaha, the Thundercat and 9000 versions from Arctic Cat, the improved Assault and Axis models from Polaris, and the new Rev-Gen 4 850Etec models from Ski Doo have been released for next season. With the kind of winter that we just had it's fantastic to see the optimism that the OEM's have shown us with their MY17 offerings. It's been a long time since this much new tech as been unleashed in the same year. There should be something new available to make anyone happy regardless of what brand they want to ride.
Like you mentioned snowmobiling is a lot of fun and like the old saying goes........."you've got to pay to play".
I'm just blown away that new models like the Sidewinder from Yamaha, the Thundercat and 9000 versions from Arctic Cat, the improved Assault and Axis models from Polaris, and the new Rev-Gen 4 850Etec models from Ski Doo have been released for next season. With the kind of winter that we just had it's fantastic to see the optimism that the OEM's have shown us with their MY17 offerings. It's been a long time since this much new tech as been unleashed in the same year. There should be something new available to make anyone happy regardless of what brand they want to ride.
Like you mentioned snowmobiling is a lot of fun and like the old saying goes........."you've got to pay to play".
snobuilder
Well-known member
I'd rather talk about it on a website with other folks who also now see the huge mark up on these sleds to where they can knock off 30+% and still make a go of it. And if the mannies aren't giving the dealerships their fair share of those mark-ups, the dealership can only blame the manny....not the bargain hunting consumer....but hey...if you want to walk into Pat's or any other place and talk them UP on the price.....go for it!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with looking for the best deal to be had and /or waiting for the fire sale in January..... anyone who wants to dictate to me how much having fun in this sport needs to cost me can kiss my hairy white ***....LOL J/K...youse ain't gettin anywhere near it....LOL
That bein said, from Kip's post it sounds like he was giving a decent disc.and is selling the new SW. The more of these hitting the snow next season the better for Yamaha.
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I can understand waiting for a sale, that's what I did in January when I bought my 16 m 800 limited for 2k less than msrp. Plenty of people who can afford to buy brand new, without waiting a year, or until factory rebates come out. I'm not one of them, but I also don't whine about the msrp on a new sled, I know I can't afford it, and whining about it isn't going to change that fact.
snobuilder
Well-known member
You are right.... whining changes nothing. Waiting for the fire sale changes everything.
sweeperguy
Active member
$3500 in Polaris incentives on my RMK last October
Ok, just to clarify there is very little markup in snowmobile sales. I bet Mark from Timberline and my brother at M&M will both confirm this. There are big rebates as you all know, well what happens? The dealers use up the whole rebate off dealer cost and you're still making nothing. The Snowmobile dealer business is very difficult and very high stress. For all the time and hours we put in we should actually be allowed to make a little something when in all reality we're losing money steady, it's a very hard pill to swallow. If all of us were smart we would simply rent and service and quit selling or maybe just sell used iron, but if we did that a lot of times we would not be able to warranty or help many good sledders out and many would not come back to the U.P. So many people think they know so much about the retail of snowmobiles and it blows my mind how little they actually do know and that's not pointing the finger at anyone. I put on 22 miles this year riding a snowmobile and even less time with the family, it's difficult finding a balance when the season is all or nothing. We spent every Sunday here just trying to liquidate our inventory so we had storage room for summer and reduced interest payments which have already hit us. Then on top of it we can't even get rid of used sleds because of the programs on new stuff. Here's a example on how much Pat's has made on new 2016 sleds in March. Dealer cost on Apex XTX $13,573. Rebate 500. Dealer cost 13.073. Sold 3 in March for $10,995. Sold one New Vector in March. Dealer cost $12,193, rebate 400, dealer cost 11,793, sold for 9500. Sold 16 Vipers in March. Dealer cost is 11,581, rebate 1750, dealer cost 9831.00. Sold them for 8995. Nearest I can tell we lost $21,903.00 dollars on new sled sales in March. This is not a complaint but next time anyone thinks their dealer is getting rich off new snowmobiles think again!!! This is FACT! It's service, parts, and rentals that clash flow a snowmobile dealer. To boot, now put your interest payments on top of that! Yes, it's a price you pay of being in business but I just want people to see that it's not easy being a snowmobile dealer. There are times I wonder why we even sell new sleds at Pat's. We could be much more profitable without new sled sales but just like all of you, it's a passion!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for posting that Kip! I've known for a long long time dealers don't make squat on new sled sales. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who know everything about everything, and won't believe you. I know that I'm glad that you and every other dealer in the country are still doing it! Without you guys, snowmobiling wouldn't exist. Thanks for being there!
snobuilder
Well-known member
If you read my posts again you will see that I said what you just did in bold. The mannies aren't taking care of their dealers.
You and Skylar will also see I didn't say you or any other dealership is making a ton of money off sleds especially in a fire sale.
As the customer all I can go by is the discounted prices I see from all 4 mannies and everyone of them is dropping the leftovers to the same percent off MSRP give or take a few hundo. Not sure how you all get to that same price except incentives/rebates from the manufacturer. I doubt you all somehow decided to lose the exact same amount of money.... every model, every dealership. For example....The 8999 on the vipers and the 10999 on the Apex can be found at many Yamaha dealerships right now.
Polaris pricing is also the same ...every model every dealership...same price...within a few bucks.
Again, all I can do is draw my own conclusions from what I see advertised.
Let me bore you a little more....LOL..
My last new sled...purchased preseason in Oct..... was initially marked down 13%.....in January it was marked down 18%....this year the same sled a year newer is 25% off MSRP.
I asked my dealer how they can do this and his answer was, as Cat and Polaris drop the price with dealer incentives and rebates so do they to move the leftovers.
I am totally fine with it even though I didn't expect the big price drop coming a few months after purchase....I had the pleasure of riding the sled earlier than them who waited....BUT after seeing the huge discounts for waiting a few months will I be buying preseason again? probly 60/40 no right now.
I'm happy to hear that there are folks who say this is a rich mans sport....and have the $$$$ to shell out no matter the MSRP...you might be our only hope to keep these dealerships up and open.
C
Cirrus_Driver
Guest
I've been doing Cost Accounting for 34 years, started out as a cost accounting clerk while I went to school at night, at Allis-Chalmers. 10 years until they closed the doors in Dec. '1985, I left in June '85.
My business is evaluating product cost and margins on product sales. I calculate manufacturing dept. O/H rates for a multi-million dollar business. That's my background, so with that in mind, I have a very hard time believing you are losing anywhere from $1000 to $2500 on each 2016 sled you sold in March. (Didn't take time to figure exact figures - easy enough to do, but I'm closing today - looking at inventory levels right now) That is totally crazy - you can't be in business doing that. If it were my business, I'd close the doors or be looking for some big time help from the manufacturer's that obviously have NOT held the cost on these sleds over the years, and your margins prove it. The customer is not willing to pay their ridiculous MSRP for these sleds. I suspected this, but you have confirmed it. Yamaha has literally lost their minds with pricing, and costing, on sleds, which illustrates one very important point to me....they don't really care if they price themselves out of the market, or to even lower market shares. They are going to lose a lot of dealers at those rates. It will be a slow bleed. You have to sell some major parts and service to make up for $21 G's in negative margin. Figure a mechanic at $25/hr minimum, then there's O/H on that, figure another $15/hr., and a billing rate at $65 - $70/hr., that's $25/hr. in margin on service. That's 840 hrs. of service you had to sell in March just to break even. That's figuring one mechanic, which I'm sure isn't the case. The numbers go even higher for multiple mechanics. As I've said for a couple years now - Yamaha has lost their minds on pricing and aren't holding the line on the cost of manufacturing. I don't suspect I will ever be getting into the snowmobile retail business. IF those numbers are accurate, and I'm a bit skeptical, I feel sorry for you.
My business is evaluating product cost and margins on product sales. I calculate manufacturing dept. O/H rates for a multi-million dollar business. That's my background, so with that in mind, I have a very hard time believing you are losing anywhere from $1000 to $2500 on each 2016 sled you sold in March. (Didn't take time to figure exact figures - easy enough to do, but I'm closing today - looking at inventory levels right now) That is totally crazy - you can't be in business doing that. If it were my business, I'd close the doors or be looking for some big time help from the manufacturer's that obviously have NOT held the cost on these sleds over the years, and your margins prove it. The customer is not willing to pay their ridiculous MSRP for these sleds. I suspected this, but you have confirmed it. Yamaha has literally lost their minds with pricing, and costing, on sleds, which illustrates one very important point to me....they don't really care if they price themselves out of the market, or to even lower market shares. They are going to lose a lot of dealers at those rates. It will be a slow bleed. You have to sell some major parts and service to make up for $21 G's in negative margin. Figure a mechanic at $25/hr minimum, then there's O/H on that, figure another $15/hr., and a billing rate at $65 - $70/hr., that's $25/hr. in margin on service. That's 840 hrs. of service you had to sell in March just to break even. That's figuring one mechanic, which I'm sure isn't the case. The numbers go even higher for multiple mechanics. As I've said for a couple years now - Yamaha has lost their minds on pricing and aren't holding the line on the cost of manufacturing. I don't suspect I will ever be getting into the snowmobile retail business. IF those numbers are accurate, and I'm a bit skeptical, I feel sorry for you.
XXX007, my numbers are correct and thankfully it's not every year but I did not want a slow death, I just wanted it over with. Snobuilder, I wasn't accusing you of anything, like I said, only shedding some light and not pointing fingers so please relax Not just Yamaha XXX007, all mannies!!!!!!!! I honestly should just keep quiet. No one will believe it either way and you can find much hard to believe but believe it.
Not just Yamaha XXX007, all mannies!!!!!!!! I honestly should just keep quiet. No one will believe it either way and you can find much hard to believe but believe it.snobuilder
Well-known member
XXX007, my numbers are correct and thankfully it's not every year but I did not want a slow death, I just wanted it over with. Snobuilder, I wasn't accusing you of anything, like I said, only shedding some light and not pointing fingers so please relax
I am fine...relaxed,... I just stated what I see and what I conclude from it.
I know you and Skylar are referring to me and anyone else who isn't constantly heaping well deserved praise on your dealership in this thread... and that is fine....no need to be defensive....I would definately be one of your sled buying customers if I was closer.....I'd love to have my upnorth home right next door!....LOL....tons a snow and a dealership both of which you can count on would be the perfect combination....all the traffic when no one else has snow?....not so much.
snobuilder
Well-known member
but you said..."knows everything about everything"...
I believe Kip's number. I was a Cat dealer for 9 years. The slow death was caused by; Poor economy in 2007-2010, several poor snow years with 2011/2012 season trails being open 5 days & the 2012 sleds being junk. So the short 2011/2012 season & the junk 2012 sleds combined to make ZERO, yes ZERO 2013 pre-season sales! And consider I was asking $100 over invoice for those 2013s. I called Cat and began the termination process. It was a great relief to see $441,000 worth of units hauled away & floor plan balance go to zero.
Understood Snobuilder, thanks I really wish things were cheaper and the winter would of been better. Of course we both know your words spawned my response but I just didn't want you to think I was picking at you I do love the input and I'm not going to sit here and say we lose money every year, it's just not as fruitful as most think, and when it's bad it's bad. I know we get a lot of praise on here and I'm sure it gets sickening for some people but we appreciate it and are very humbled by it We take nothing for granted. XXX007 we actually did lose that money, no BS. You're correct, if we had to do it every year we would be out of business. That being said, we are fortunately very versatile and can whether this storm utilizing our versatility. Some others cannot and that is why many powersports dealerships have closed, pretty simple math really. The losses are real and I'm not being naive thinking others don't go through it. XXX007, I'm sure in your line of business you already know that Of course we all know no one can survive losing this kind of money and it's not typical, but it does happen. After discussing things with my accountant in late February we decided to take a quick death and not a slow one. We'll survive and pray for a better winter next year.
I really wish things were cheaper and the winter would of been better. Of course we both know your words spawned my response but I just didn't want you to think I was picking at you I do love the input and I'm not going to sit here and say we lose money every year, it's just not as fruitful as most think, and when it's bad it's bad. I know we get a lot of praise on here and I'm sure it gets sickening for some people but we appreciate it and are very humbled by it We take nothing for granted. XXX007 we actually did lose that money, no BS. You're correct, if we had to do it every year we would be out of business. That being said, we are fortunately very versatile and can whether this storm utilizing our versatility. Some others cannot and that is why many powersports dealerships have closed, pretty simple math really. The losses are real and I'm not being naive thinking others don't go through it. XXX007, I'm sure in your line of business you already know that Of course we all know no one can survive losing this kind of money and it's not typical, but it does happen. After discussing things with my accountant in late February we decided to take a quick death and not a slow one. We'll survive and pray for a better winter next year.