A Question to Snowmobilers

t660redrocket

New member
I've lived in the twin cities all my life and my dad is from ironwood MI, I use to register my sleds in mn but switched to wi cause the snow conditions were better there the last 10 years. I have riden northern mn and found the trails to be just as good, I havent been back to MN for 10 years and don't plan on comming back. the laws change every year, one year you have a stud permit the next year you don't , at least be consistant or someone else will. I don't drink and snowmobile but the laws have really changed the sport, DUI's are more common and there are more cops on sleds. the higher prices have had an effect on the sport as well, more familys can't get into the sport like the past. Corporate greed has take the sport to a new level, $45.00 for a gallon of oil? come on guys, are you really thinking the sport supports thats. no matter where you ride the cost of the sports is what is causing people to go elsewhere.

Mystik Sea and Snow synthetic blend $15/gal and Mystik Full Synthetic $19/gal. Mystik(Citgo) manufactures for Cat and Yamaha. Lubetech for Polaris. Not sure for Doo?
 

sledhd1

Member
Average snow

I have snowmobiled out of Cook MN trails typicaly very good mostly in middle of february. fact though they just dont get the amount of snow cook average precip for January is .85" Houghton for January is 4.26" February Cook is .54 and Houghton 2.28 its colder in Cook trails hold up better when cold out but they just dont have the same amount of snow to work with fact is if its a below precip year Cook just does not get any at least Houghton gets something.
Ok, I don't want anyone to get offended. I am by no means judging anyone, but I am very curious about something.

A ton of talk on this site this week has been about the warm temps and pending rain. Lots of questions about trail conditions and should I go/not go. I can understand all of that.

I just finished updating the snow cover maps and northern MN looks to have some pretty good snow on the ground and also looks to get hammered by snow in the next 2 days. So my question is why has there been almost no talk about this area? Places to go/stay or conditions at the moment. It is about the same driving distance from Chicago/Milwaukee as the western UP and even closer for folks living in the Twin Cities. Seems to me if I were planning a trip to N. WI or the UP and things were unraveling like they are now, I would be looking into this option.

I understand if someone has a place they own in N. WI or the UP. You would go there, but for all others planning to rent a room or cabin, why not northern MN? I know I have been there in the autumn and loved it. I have never been snowmobiling, so I guess that is another part of my question. I am thinking that had I been able to make the trip there for this weekend, I would have even left the Keweenaw and gone myself, but I have to work both tomorrow and Sunday, so no holiday for me.

For those that just want to keep this a secret, sorry, and don't feel the need to reply, you can do YOUR best to keep it a secret if that has been your intent all along.

-John
 

fishcrib

Member
Bearrassler any imput on good places to eat, fuel stops, and any places we should go would be helpful. Please PM me.

Thanks everyone for the comments.
 

sixball

New member
Don't take this wrong. At 59 and 60's our group does not want to watch a speedometer all day. we also do not go to Ontario the speed limits are way to slow. I know you can often get away with running over the speed limit but why worry. Evin an old fart can bust the 55mph now an then.
P.S. Mich riding is some of the best.
 

bearrassler

Well-known member
fishcrib, I don't know how many miles you like to ride in a day, but there are many places to fuel up and eat. Itasca state park and the headwaters of the Mississippi River are to the east. The trails in the park are not groomed the best but you are not in there for more than 20 miles. There is a place east of the Park called Lobo's that is a nice stop. If you want to go on a longer ride you can go up towards Bemidji or Becida (another good place to eat or gas up) You could also go towards Park Rapids from Itasca, and a good place to get gas is Two Inlets Store. If you go south from Pinehurst you can go to Hoot Owl Resort, Big Elbow Lake Store, Rainbow Resort, and Ice Cracking Lodge. Most places have some food and fuel, and if you want to you can go to Detroit Lakes. To the west you run into more open country but the Shooting Star Casino is in Mahnomen and the trails to the west are a lot faster. Let me know if you want any more information.
 

fishcrib

Member
Bearrassler thanks for the info. We will put on alot a miles a day if we can.
We are heading from norther illinois in the morining and spending the week up there.

I forgot to ask the Pinehurst if they sell the trail stickers. Do they have?

Looking forward to checking out a new area.
 

bearrassler

Well-known member
I am sure that you can get the stickers there. The snow should be great, and the trails should be good midweek, have a great week.
 

Da Bartender

New member
Full disclosure so you know: I own a fishing/snowmobile resort 30 miles south of International Falls and have owned it since snow season 2001. I ride some here and enjoyed my trip to John's Make a Wish event 3 years ago in the UP. I donate cabin stays to help raise funds for this great cause and to say thank you for all he does for the snow enthusiasts. I don't ride very fast because I am 56 years old and new to the sport, usually too busy running the resort to get out as much as I would like.

Many of my customers visit here and the UP every snow season as they are both great places to enjoy the winter. What I hear talking with them and my limited experiences in both places:

The UP gets more snow and more traffic.
Our trails hold up really well due to groomers and pretty cold temperatures.
The UP is more well known for riding, we are a bit of a well kept secret.
The groomers do an outstanding job (with what they have to work with during
any given season) both places.
I would not worry about finding refreshments, food and gas in either area.
Speeding tickets/driving too fast for conditions are rare and probably deserved.
If you have not visited the UP - you should try it sometime.
If you have never been to Northern Minnesota you should try it sometime too.
Conditions vary day to day, week to week in both places. But, what should not change is the hospitality and efforts to make your trip enjoyable by those of us in the resort business.
Webcams and forums are abundant these days - find them and use them as we do this to help you figure out where your next great vacation might be.

I believe the original question was why not consider alternatives? My customers/friends have for all ten years I've been here.

Must share one more item for what it is worth. This is a personal (not business) plug. As a token of our appreciation for all that this site does for
so many of us ---> please consider some type of support for the Wish event
this coming February as a way of saying thanks for all this site does for us.

Have a great snow season & Happy New Year!
 

elf

Well-known member
I guess I'm amazed also by the people that automatically bypass northern Mn and head to the UP. For people from the Twin Cties area it's 3 hrs to Two Harbors, dump there and ride the NSST.
Since we built our cabin near Finland 5 yrs ago the north shore is the only area we ride.The NSST and the Tomahawk do get rough during the day but the NSST is groomed both Friday and Sat. nites. The local trails around Finland are always good and the amount of off trail riding is phenomenal. Just this last week we did actually trailer the sleds up to Grand Portage for the day to ride their trail system. What a gorgeous area. The trails that were groomed were excellent and this is one rugged area. Threw a snowball into Canada at Partridge falls on the pigeon river.
I've rode the UP, Northern WI, and other areas but I would have a hard time giving up my north shore for any of them. We don't have the amount of pitstops or accomodations other areas have and because of that, they are more expensive. the lodges along the shore cater to the non motorized (click clacks) winter users and you get some dirty looks from those people when you pull into them on sleds for lunch/etc... but my money is as good as theirs!

And as far as the speed limit, in the 6 yrs I have been riding up there, I have yet to see the DNR with any speed traps. As a matter of fact, I have only seen them once anywhere. We did run into the border patrol on a pair of Switchbacks way up near the border on wednesday. Tough job!

On the other hand, if you all want to stay away, that is fine with me also! Here's a couple of pics from this last week!
 

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vmax1994

New member
I have a midweek trip planned in a couple of weeks. We were going to head out from my cabin in NW Wisc and head into the UP and back. If things don't change, we will be heading into MN. I would much rather ride good snow and conditions then worry about longer distances between pit stops and speed limits. There are plenty of good trail systems in MN. I do agree that Wisc and UP or more snowmobile friendly but its not as if MN doesn't have any decent riding areas.
 

mjkaliszak

New member
I live in north central minnesota and have done all my riding the last 3 winters from my front door (4000+ miles). The lone exception is a once a year trip out to togwotee. Also I have never ridden the up or wisconsin so I can't compare them to Minnesota first hand but can generally agree with previous posts, there are two exceptions.

The first is the studs issue. I believe there are only 3 trails in northern minnesota that have any stud restrictions and north of a bemidji to duluth line there are no restrictions on studs or paved snowmobile trails at all. Also there is no stud fee anymore, so stud restrictions should not be adeterent to snowmobilers visiting northern minnesota.

The second is the speed limit enforcement issue. In northern minnesota outside of Voyegeurs national park there is very little enforcement of speed limits. The exception being heavily used trails near resort areas. I would only worry about the speed limit if you are one that must ride throttle to the bar for 10 miles at a shot. Also with the exceptions of rail road grade trails and connector trails most trails here you would end up plastered to a tree trying to maintain 50 mph through the woods.

There are times that I have considered posting snow and trail conditions reports and pictures on this site but haven't. It never seems as though there has been much demand for them from my area as compared to northern wisonsin and the up. I would be glad to give reports if desired by other snowmobilers wondering what the snow and trail conditions are first hand.


So here is a pic of where I typically ride in Beltrami State Forest. This was two weeks ago there was hard 5-6" base at that time freshly groomed. There hasn't been much snowfall since then but unlike areas to the south no thaw either and with the current storms happening now I can't wait to get out afterwards.

I would welcome your pics and trail reports also. A few years back I looked @ MN, but didn't have a clue where to start as far as picking a destination. I am willing to travel almost any destination by car in a day's ride. I was looking for something different with better snow conditions and different scenery. I would like to see more input from ALL areas, NY - MN- ND - Canada on this site , but .... so be it. When I talk to guy's normally in the W-UP that hail from MN they say the same thing, " not as snowmobilier friendly, groomers run 1 time a week by them, I don't know how true that is but .... When you throw the stud thing & the speed limit thing on top of that it discourages me. I would love for this forum to be farther reaching , I like to get out my maps and start looking onto areas. ( I'm a map guy ) as opposed to GPS, but none the less like to evaluate. I for 1 would welcome all reports & pics from MN , plus it gives us something to consider - drool over during a melt down ( LOL ) not so funny now.
 

doogirl

New member
fishcrib, I don't know how many miles you like to ride in a day, but there are many places to fuel up and eat. Itasca state park and the headwaters of the Mississippi River are to the east. The trails in the park are not groomed the best but you are not in there for more than 20 miles. There is a place east of the Park called Lobo's that is a nice stop. If you want to go on a longer ride you can go up towards Bemidji or Becida (another good place to eat or gas up) You could also go towards Park Rapids from Itasca, and a good place to get gas is Two Inlets Store. If you go south from Pinehurst you can go to Hoot Owl Resort, Big Elbow Lake Store, Rainbow Resort, and Ice Cracking Lodge. Most places have some food and fuel, and if you want to you can go to Detroit Lakes. To the west you run into more open country but the Shooting Star Casino is in Mahnomen and the trails to the west are a lot faster. Let me know if you want any more information.

Was up there yesterday again, and with the new snow it was awesome. The lakes are flooding, and deep snow has drifted so were rough yesterday, but the sleds should knock some of that down, at least between the trails. We don't groom or stake our lake trails but they are normally ridden enough to find the trail. That is one difference from Kabetogama area, where they have staked lake trails. With miles of woods trails, the lakes are primarily used for short cuts. The trails out of Pinehurts will be awesome. Just wanted to add Itasca Junction, Buck Stop and Lake George cafe if riding east, Sunlite, Sandbar, Shorewood Pub if going south. Pick up the White earth trail map, Forest riders map from Park Rapids, and the Detroit Lakes map for Becker co. trails, sound like a lot, and they overlap, but each outlines their areas in better detail, so easier to get around. Have fun!
 
just ride and mjkaliszak and whoever else might me interested I just put a short report and a few picks in the area conditions forum
 

bransan

New member
You won't regret it. Lots of riding right now and i'm guessing you won't do much fishing. It's just under 70 mi by trail from my house to Pinehurst and they always have great conditions when we have marginal conditions. You will have a great time. Take time to go south to ice cracking and wolf lake, loop around to park Rapids and through Two Inlets then back to Pinehurst.Should be about a 200 mi day. Here is what it looks like in My yard this morning.
P1010779.jpg
 

mn_polaris_guy

New member
I agree with this site being a midwest site, not just a UP site. That said, the UP is a main focus. For MN sled trail information (including interactive maps), go to the MN DNR website: www.dnr.state.mn.us Good map info, current conditions, great website.
 
Ok, I don't want anyone to get offended. I am by no means judging anyone, but I am very curious about something.

A ton of talk on this site this week has been about the warm temps and pending rain. Lots of questions about trail conditions and should I go/not go. I can understand all of that.

I just finished updating the snow cover maps and northern MN looks to have some pretty good snow on the ground and also looks to get hammered by snow in the next 2 days. So my question is why has there been almost no talk about this area? Places to go/stay or conditions at the moment. It is about the same driving distance from Chicago/Milwaukee as the western UP and even closer for folks living in the Twin Cities. Seems to me if I were planning a trip to N. WI or the UP and things were unraveling like they are now, I would be looking into this option.

I understand if someone has a place they own in N. WI or the UP. You would go there, but for all others planning to rent a room or cabin, why not northern MN? I know I have been there in the autumn and loved it. I have never been snowmobiling, so I guess that is another part of my question. I am thinking that had I been able to make the trip there for this weekend, I would have even left the Keweenaw and gone myself, but I have to work both tomorrow and Sunday, so no holiday for me.

For those that just want to keep this a secret, sorry, and don't feel the need to reply, you can do YOUR best to keep it a secret if that has been your intent all along.

-John

Hi John,

I've had a difficult time resisting from replying to your post since I had a chance to read it this morning. I live in the area of Northern Minnesota that received 12" of snow on Thursday and another 8" on Friday. All this snow is resting on top of about 24" of snow we had prior to those two storms. Needless to say the back-country riding has been nothing short of spectacular. I've burned through about 60 gallons of gas since Thursday and only have 220 miles to show for it. The best part of all of this is that since Thursday the only tracks I've crossed have been my own. The few folks I did see riding were sticking to the trails and plowed roads.

I've always felt fortunate that our area has never been a popular snowmobiling destination for the causal snowmobile enthusiast. We lack many of the conveniences like easy access to food, lodging and libation that make a snowmobile trip to Northern Wisconsin or the Yoop fun for most snowmobilers. 24 hour a day access to fuel is still the exception, not the rule. If you're sticking to the trail system it is not unusual to see 50 or so miles between stops. Our area isn't kind to folks that aren't accustom to making a flight plan and sticking to it. Carrying a GPS is highly recommended. However, our area is ideal for the adventurous, well prepared snowmobiler that doesn't panic if you get twisted around in the bush and pop out in a location you weren't expecting.

If you think it sounds like I'm trying to sway folks away from visiting this area, you're right. This just isn't a good destination if you're planning a trip with the wife and kids or for any large group that's unfamiliar with each other. I know this first hand all to well from my experiences with friends and family that have visited over the years.

On the other hand, if riding mile after mile on un-tracked logging and fire roads, tamarack swamps, woods and countless rivers in waste to arm pit deep snow or laying down between 200 and 250 miles a day on very lightly traveled well groomed trails is you're idea of a good day snowmobiling, than you may just want to consider visiting this area.

It shouldn't be hard to understand why I've avoided pin pointing the specific area of Minnesota I live in. The one clue I can offer is that as far as I can tell, John's snow cover map accurately shows the snow depth in the area I live in.
 

skiroule

Well-known member
John,

As a person that was born and raised in Lake of the Woods County I read the previous post with great interest. Although I no longer live in the area, I think the post pretty much nailed my hometown area from my perspective. I suspect that this mystery area is close to home. To paraphase Sarah Palin, I could see Canada from my high school classrooms. Heck, we only had Canadian TV when I was in high school. Every time we heard "Oh Canada" we stood up out of habit.

One of the problems (as is evidenced from the many posts) is the difficulty in defining "Northern Minnesota". Some people think of Brainerd or Fergus Falls as northern Minnesota. Sorry, this is not northern Minnesota. Most people from the northern part of the state divide the state into three regions, all of which are north of Duluth: Northeastern Minnesota, Northern Minnesota, and Northwestern Minnesota. The distinction is important because the riding conditions are dramatically different.

I just got back from riding in the L.O.W. area and I can tell you that in the woods where the wind isn't a factor they have an honest 30" of loose powder. This year is the exception rather than the rule but it is sure fun when it happens. As far as the trails are concerned, we rode for three days and encountered four snowmobiles that weren't part of our group.

As to why people don't ride in this area, there are many reasons but one common thread is that it's rugged. Some of the point-to-point rides are over 100 miles and there is nothing in between. Thankfully, the local clubs do an excellent job of providing shelters every 20 - 50 miles so you can build a fire and warm up. If you're looking for bars or food every 20 minutes, it isn't the place to ride.

Regarding snowfall, sometimes less is better. the trails don't mogul up and with the lack of melting, 8 - 12" of snow will support the trails for a long time. I've ridden in the Arrowhead county and really enjoyed it but I could see where grooming might be an issue with the heavier traffic from the metro area. In my hometown area I've actually met more groomers than snowmobiles on some rides.

I've ridden the U.P. for many years and my daughter lives there so I'm also a fan of the Michigan experience but thanks for posing the question. Remember, you didn't hear any of this from me.
 
John,

As a person that was born and raised in Lake of the Woods County I read the previous post with great interest. Although I no longer live in the area, I think the post pretty much nailed my hometown area from my perspective. I suspect that this mystery area is close to home. To paraphase Sarah Palin, I could see Canada from my high school classrooms. Heck, we only had Canadian TV when I was in high school. Every time we heard "Oh Canada" we stood up out of habit.

One of the problems (as is evidenced from the many posts) is the difficulty in defining "Northern Minnesota". Some people think of Brainerd or Fergus Falls as northern Minnesota. Sorry, this is not northern Minnesota. Most people from the northern part of the state divide the state into three regions, all of which are north of Duluth: Northeastern Minnesota, Northern Minnesota, and Northwestern Minnesota. The distinction is important because the riding conditions are dramatically different.

I just got back from riding in the L.O.W. area and I can tell you that in the woods where the wind isn't a factor they have an honest 30" of loose powder. This year is the exception rather than the rule but it is sure fun when it happens. As far as the trails are concerned, we rode for three days and encountered four snowmobiles that weren't part of our group.

As to why people don't ride in this area, there are many reasons but one common thread is that it's rugged. Some of the point-to-point rides are over 100 miles and there is nothing in between. Thankfully, the local clubs do an excellent job of providing shelters every 20 - 50 miles so you can build a fire and warm up. If you're looking for bars or food every 20 minutes, it isn't the place to ride.

Regarding snowfall, sometimes less is better. the trails don't mogul up and with the lack of melting, 8 - 12" of snow will support the trails for a long time. I've ridden in the Arrowhead county and really enjoyed it but I could see where grooming might be an issue with the heavier traffic from the metro area. In my hometown area I've actually met more groomers than snowmobiles on some rides.

I've ridden the U.P. for many years and my daughter lives there so I'm also a fan of the Michigan experience but thanks for posing the question. Remember, you didn't hear any of this from me.

Skiroule,

The county I live in borders Lake of the Wood County and not on the north side. Your low snow observation is right on the money. This area gets cold early and stays cold for long time. The first grooming of the trail system normally knocks down all the weeds. Once that been done it only takes about 6" of snow to make the trails really nice. Even in heavily used areas the worst conditions that occur are bear spots. It never gets rough like it does in the areas that measure their snow by the foot.

You also are spot on when referring to what is truly the northern portion of Minnesota. U.S. Highway 2, which runs from Duluth to Grand Forks is the geographical dividing line for the northern 1/3 of the state. The 3 regions within the northern third are divided by U.S. Highway 53 and U.S. Highway 71.
 
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tomk

New member
tell you what, I personally think mn has the best riding in the midwest hands down. the only reason I have gone to other midwest states is due to lack of snow in mn.

I have been a active member of this website/forum for over 5 years and I have tried endlessly to get people talking about mn conditions, both up north and even around the metro area and have had minimal response. I have always though that this forum has been mainly mi and wi centered, which is great, especially we we are low snow here in mn. I guess I just though most of the guys on the forum were from wi, or mi.

some days I wish I could get some talk on snow conditions for mn otherdays I just go ride all the great mn conditions
 
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