Anyone want to define Corporate Greed?

[skiroule]

you wouldn't believe how much I reference this site in my daily life, and how much I truly learn on here. I have all you guys (and gals) to thank for that. Look at the repairs on sleds I have made. I look forward every day to coming on here, even if guys out there are ridiculing me. I learn from mistakes.

Since this thread has taken a brief right turn, the previous post is a pretty heartfelt post and surprisingly insightful. I've dealt with youth involved in much worse things than annoying the likes of us. I don't post a lot but I visit this site daily and like most regulars have a finely tuned Indy filter. Even so, more often or not, I read Indy's posts because they frequently inject a bit of refreshing levity and as disturbing as it is, I find myself appreciating his somewhat sarcastic sense of humor. If I'm annoyed or I want to move on, I amp up the filter and as you can see by this thread, so do many others.

Fortunately I've buried this endorsement in an unrelated thread so there will be no witnesses.

My sincere apologies for this diversion - now back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[ezra]

the real sad part is the teachings in the classrooms today become the political policies of tomorrow.

 

[Marty P]

Exxon Mobil - According to the company’s shareholder report, Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS.

General Electric - Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

Chevron - Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

Sadly the list goes on and on and on and on... this isn't greed it's Capitalism!

 

[Hoosier]

I wouldn't knock capitalism for the failure of the US tax code. We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the developed world, but truckloads of deductions that allows many companies to avoid taxes if they work hard enough at it. I would propose lowering the tax rate and wiping out 99.9% of the deductions, similar to what the House republicans proposed this week (I'm not a repub, just pointing out that they proposed a good idea).

 

[Marty P]

I wouldn't knock capitalism for the failure of the US tax code. We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the developed world, but truckloads of deductions that allows many companies to avoid taxes if they work hard enough at it. I would propose lowering the tax rate and wiping out 99.9% of the deductions, similar to what the House republicans proposed this week (I'm not a repub, just pointing out that they proposed a good idea).

You’re kidding...right? Either that or you should change the TV channel you get your news from, they own that too, remember!

 

[Admin]

How dare they make a profit! They should be like GM. Lose a ton, close plants in the US, open them in Mexico and then hold their hands out and demand the billions because they are "too big to fail".

Don't blame a company for taking advantage of the tax code. That's not greed, that is being business wise. I take all the deductions I can as well.

The system does need fixing though.

-John

 

[Hoosier]

You’re kidding...right? Either that or you should change the TV channel you get your news from, they own that too, remember!

Kidding about what? I don't get my news from the TV, although I'm assuming every source of news is from a "evil corporation."

If I ran a corporation, I would take advantage of every deduction available to me. Same as I do as an individual. My point was that the tax code and the politicians that prop it up is what is at fault, not capitalism. Maybe you are kidding. If not, please provide an alternative...European-style socialism perhaps? I don't know what you getting at.

 

[Marty P]

Most perceive capitalism as a system of the production and distribution of preferred goods and services in return for what consumers are willing to pay for them. Most see this system as the bedrock on which the United States was built and upon which the country should function. This system may have functioned well in the United States in the post-World War II era when there was little global competition and coincidentally, a period when the United States system of government was far more socialistic than present, and a time that truly established the middle class in this country.

Capitalism in the United States today is more about the want of the wealthy to get wealthier at the expense of all others, and is often without that production of a good or service demanded by society. This country is being run more like a business than like a traditional government. There has been a massive manipulation by the power brokers on Wall Street of our government for their (big business) benefit. This has increasingly come at the expense of the dwindling middle class and working class.

This system continues to operate today as most Americans strive to be among the wealthy and see capitalism as a system where becoming wealthy is at least possible. Capitalism is often associated with the ideals of Christianity (another discussion altogether) and the concurrent American ideal of democracy, neither of which is actually the case.

Economic power and political power is held in the hands of the few. Corporate America's biggest battle and fear is the one person/one vote system. With the poor and middle classes increasingly outnumbering the wealthy, the battle they struggle with is keeping the masses ignorant and complacent.

Of course this is just my opinion…

 

[anonomoose]

Marty, you sum it up perfectly.

I would go one step further though and lay much of what has happened to the exceptionally refined ability of the politicians to get elected, and to knowingly avoid correction of a system that has gone wrong.

If you know what has to be done, but buy off votes, then you OWN everything that happens.

While earlier in this thread, it was pointed out the number of Corporations that pay no taxes, it is simply appalling that these same companies are lobbying for even more tax breaks and reductions of tax, and ability to pay less of their share of government expense. This same government, protects these corporations with an army, medicine, health care and infrustructer which those who are employed by any corporation need to function.

But how can you fix it if your vote is bought off?

Case in point. Right now the Governor of Alaska is lobbying the state legislature to give oil companies who are already drilling in Alaska, huge tax breaks so that they will continue to drill and extracting oil from the north slope. While his efforts to drop away 5 billion dollars in tax revenue from the state coffers fell down with a thud even with the pro-oil crowd in the legislature, the bill has gotten shelved without action, the oil companies are doing a full court press to resurrect the effort and promising to spend billions drilling for new reserves. I read about this saga every day. It would be funny except Alaska needs the money like every other state in the nation. This, no strings attached deal, means that the money in tax that would be used for the State infrastructure will not be collected and the oil companies (who would in all likelihood drill anyway) will simply have another tool to pay even less tax than they already do with these tax credits. Tax credits can be sold traded around and handed off to the highest bidder once they receive them.

We need to pay attention to our politicians and how they vote and NOT assume that they will do the right thing when it comes to voting for issues that put the right interests of the citizens they represent at the top.

Shame on us, if we get more interest in who gets voted off of dancing with stars than we do with how our representatives voted on issues that have long term affects on our country.

 

[Marty P]

Anonomoose - A toast…well said! Personally I could go on and on and on… enjoyed “more interest in who gets voted off of dancing with stars” so sad but so true, rather brilliant of them if you think about it…

 

[Marty P]

Hey Indy...

Hey Indy, Print post #28 and #29 this thread of course, not sure what grade you are in, but someday use them as your reference for a written assignment in a relevant class, in other words write a paper...depending completely on the teachers political leanings (left or right) you will either get an A+ or and F-…lol

p.s. leave the allusion of the conspiracy theory reference from post #30 out, they will think your nuts

 

[ezra]

think indy goes to public school in WI lets take a guess what way 97% of his teachers vote

 

[Hoosier]

Shame on us, if we get more interest in who gets voted off of dancing with stars than we do with how our representatives voted on issues that have long term affects on our country.

I couldn't agree more with the sentence above, although I don't think that's an indictment of capitalism as much as it reflects the dumbing down on American society, which in my opinion starts in the education system.

 

[Hoosier]

Most perceive capitalism as a system of the production and distribution of preferred goods and services in return for what consumers are willing to pay for them. Most see this system as the bedrock on which the United States was built and upon which the country should function. This system may have functioned well in the United States in the post-World War II era when there was little global competition and coincidentally, a period when the United States system of government was far more socialistic than present, and a time that truly established the middle class in this country.

Capitalism in the United States today is more about the want of the wealthy to get wealthier at the expense of all others, and is often without that production of a good or service demanded by society. This country is being run more like a business than like a traditional government. There has been a massive manipulation by the power brokers on Wall Street of our government for their (big business) benefit. This has increasingly come at the expense of the dwindling middle class and working class.

This system continues to operate today as most Americans strive to be among the wealthy and see capitalism as a system where becoming wealthy is at least possible. Capitalism is often associated with the ideals of Christianity (another discussion altogether) and the concurrent American ideal of democracy, neither of which is actually the case.

Economic power and political power is held in the hands of the few. Corporate America's biggest battle and fear is the one person/one vote system. With the poor and middle classes increasingly outnumbering the wealthy, the battle they struggle with is keeping the masses ignorant and complacent.

Of course this is just my opinion…

That's a well-stated argument, however I don't agree that the government doesn't do enough for the middle and working class. Almost 1/2 of the adults in this country now pay $0 in income taxes, and there have never been so many handouts. Why do you think America was more socialist post WW2 than it is now? I can't imagine a USA where the govt was more involved in regulating everyone's lives than it is today.

I have a feeling that I agree with you as to what the problems are in the govt, but I think we might have different ideas as to how to address them. I agree that govt and big business are way too inter-related these days and that is a cause of many of our problems. However, my solution is to make govt smaller and less powerful so that there is less power to abuse. When the founding fathers set up the system, I don't think they envisioned the career politicians that we have today.Corporate handouts have to stop just as much as individual handouts do.

 

[ezra]

all hand outs have to stop!a few exceptions for extrem situations but very stringent guidlins.drop the tax rate to say 15%no exceptions no right off's corps pay and all people pay no exceptions you have a paper rout and are 10yrs old you pay.

 

[Marty P]

We all have our valid points; bottom line is we can all agree that there is something wrong with the current system on many levels and it needs to be fixed! I sometimes think the most important aspect of these types of discussions is that it causes us to be thinkers; there is not enough of that these days.

 

[samc]

all hand outs have to stop!a few exceptions for extrem situations but very stringent guidlins.drop the tax rate to say 15%no exceptions no right off's corps pay and all people pay no exceptions you have a paper rout and are 10yrs old you pay.

Agreed 100%, the hand outs are out of control. Tax that lemon aid stand!

 

[mikeh906]

45% of americans paid no tax this year, per yahoo news

 

[Hoosier]

We all have our valid points; bottom line is we can all agree that there is something wrong with the current system on many levels and it needs to be fixed! I sometimes think the most important aspect of these types of discussions is that it causes us to be thinkers; there is not enough of that these days.

10 4. These discussions even on a snowmobile board are important to have...

 

[doomsman]

10 4. These discussions even on a snowmobile board are important to have...

Hoping the discussions stir people to get involved.