Arctic Cat layoffs etc.

indy_500

Well-known member
I think you’re right, I’ve been reading and seeing it in so many other places I don’t think it was ever discussed on here! Really concerning and could very well be the beginning to the end. Less competition is not a good thing. Unfortunately the writing has been on the wall for awhile.
 

garageguy

Well-known member
Most people just can't justify spending money on big ticket recreational items. Boats ext. The Bidenomics is really hurting most people with this rampant inflation. More layoffs are coming, the problem can no longer be downplayed as transient. It's here and it's done lots of damage to people's discretionary spending.
 

euphoric1

Well-known member
Why don't we throw into the mix as well the similar situation happening clear across the board in the entire industry?? I will never understand all the doom and gloom always about the Arctic Cat brand. If we look back when Textron took over the chatter on this sight was exactly the same... doom and gloom, writing is on the wall, the beginning of the end and that was how many years ago? then in the last 2 years we see some of the most innovation in the snowmobile industry in years and from a brand that the "Writing was on the wall from" or the "beginning of the end" and if any of you don't think Polaris or Doo aren't feeling the same pain, I suggest you do a little research, both of them are also severely struggling in the power sports business as a whole and attempting to sell off product lines to protect themselves, some of which are long established brand names.
I know all of the Cat haters will disagree here, but I see it as a smart business move which has probably been set in motion since the end of last winter. In early spring I had called to check on ordering a new Catalyst (I wont name the dealer) The preseason order was over and I was told back then that if I didn't order one I likely would not get one, so this decision had already been in the books.
I ended up buying a Catalyst (again I wont mention the dealer) but when I picked it up I could not believe the inventory sitting in the lot of another certain brand, some of which were 2023 models, I am in business and I would be pooping bricks if I saw that sitting on my lot with manufacturers demanding more, more, more. As a business owner who also depends on snow for my business I see this move as smart, not only to protect the brand, but to protect themselves and the dealer network and it is a very smart move on their part. With the innovation we have seen from them recently I don't see this effort coming from a brand name that "its the beginning of the end" or the " writing is on the wall " It would be a detrimental loss to the industry as a whole if it was. Here at my shop we have seriously rethought how we approach and prepare for winter including retaining employees, we have drastically reduced winter equipment inventory and when its gone its gone, even if that's by the end of November and will not reorder anymore. Any business that is reliant on weather takes a big risk every time they prep for it. How many of you have any remote idea as to how "floor planning financing" works for these dealers?? I'm willing to bet very few and I am also willing to bet almost all of you wouldn't even consider taking the chance either once you did know. financing not only costs the dealer, it costs the manufacturer as well.
Lets not forget also the damage one terrible winter did to the industry either... ONE BAD WINTER. This should tell all the people who don't have the faintest idea how tight things are and how willing people and businesses are to take that risk, some manage it better than others and I personally and I am not saying this because I am a Arctic Cat fan, but more so as a business man that I see this as a smart move that has been put in place since the last season ended. Every one can say what they want but I guarantee you they are all in a very tough place having to make some very tough decisions. Some have other product lines they can fall back on, some have made very drastic cuts in employment and there is no talk of it. I will never understand the negativity about the Arctic Cat brand, but what I do know so far is all of you "the writing is on the wall" group have been very wrong since Textron took hold, and again we have seen some real innovation from a brand that the "writing is on the wall" for which I am willing to bet will force the others to have to come out with something new as well. Please my dee friends who read what I am about to say, don't take it personally but for all the negative and nay sayers out there.... give me a break! and if you dont think your favorite brand isn't also going through trials and tribulations right now, you are seriously oblivious! Lets hope for a good winter for the industry as a whole this year.
 

katden4

Active member
It may not be the favorite move in our minds, but continuing to build more snowmobile just to keep employees busy is a bad move. Old school Cat would just jam more inventory on the dealers which we all know how bad that was. I myself don't care for Textron at all, but i do believe this was a good move for long term. From what I hear all brands are cutting back, just not to the level Cat has.
 

euphoric1

Well-known member
wasn't just Cat jamming inventory, saw the same business plan from a manufacturer in my business once they picked up employees another favorite snow manufacturer shed, could see a change in business almost as if someone flipped a light switch and it cost the company a bunch of dealerships as a result of.
 

bbcnova1496

New member
This isnt only an arctic cat thing, its the GM automobiles and pretty much all manufacturing companies are doing it to some level. If they arent doing it yet they will be, people havent had the extra money in their pockets since the bidenomics explosion. I hope that it will turn around but it will take some time to recover from this huge problem.
 

indy_500

Well-known member
Why don't we throw into the mix as well the similar situation happening clear across the board in the entire industry?? I will never understand all the doom and gloom always about the Arctic Cat brand. If we look back when Textron took over the chatter on this sight was exactly the same... doom and gloom, writing is on the wall, the beginning of the end and that was how many years ago? then in the last 2 years we see some of the most innovation in the snowmobile industry in years and from a brand that the "Writing was on the wall from" or the "beginning of the end" and if any of you don't think Polaris or Doo aren't feeling the same pain, I suggest you do a little research, both of them are also severely struggling in the power sports business as a whole and attempting to sell off product lines to protect themselves, some of which are long established brand names.
I know all of the Cat haters will disagree here, but I see it as a smart business move which has probably been set in motion since the end of last winter. In early spring I had called to check on ordering a new Catalyst (I wont name the dealer) The preseason order was over and I was told back then that if I didn't order one I likely would not get one, so this decision had already been in the books.
I ended up buying a Catalyst (again I wont mention the dealer) but when I picked it up I could not believe the inventory sitting in the lot of another certain brand, some of which were 2023 models, I am in business and I would be pooping bricks if I saw that sitting on my lot with manufacturers demanding more, more, more. As a business owner who also depends on snow for my business I see this move as smart, not only to protect the brand, but to protect themselves and the dealer network and it is a very smart move on their part. With the innovation we have seen from them recently I don't see this effort coming from a brand name that "its the beginning of the end" or the " writing is on the wall " It would be a detrimental loss to the industry as a whole if it was. Here at my shop we have seriously rethought how we approach and prepare for winter including retaining employees, we have drastically reduced winter equipment inventory and when its gone its gone, even if that's by the end of November and will not reorder anymore. Any business that is reliant on weather takes a big risk every time they prep for it. How many of you have any remote idea as to how "floor planning financing" works for these dealers?? I'm willing to bet very few and I am also willing to bet almost all of you wouldn't even consider taking the chance either once you did know. financing not only costs the dealer, it costs the manufacturer as well.
Lets not forget also the damage one terrible winter did to the industry either... ONE BAD WINTER. This should tell all the people who don't have the faintest idea how tight things are and how willing people and businesses are to take that risk, some manage it better than others and I personally and I am not saying this because I am a Arctic Cat fan, but more so as a business man that I see this as a smart move that has been put in place since the last season ended. Every one can say what they want but I guarantee you they are all in a very tough place having to make some very tough decisions. Some have other product lines they can fall back on, some have made very drastic cuts in employment and there is no talk of it. I will never understand the negativity about the Arctic Cat brand, but what I do know so far is all of you "the writing is on the wall" group have been very wrong since Textron took hold, and again we have seen some real innovation from a brand that the "writing is on the wall" for which I am willing to bet will force the others to have to come out with something new as well. Please my dee friends who read what I am about to say, don't take it personally but for all the negative and nay sayers out there.... give me a break! and if you dont think your favorite brand isn't also going through trials and tribulations right now, you are seriously oblivious! Lets hope for a good winter for the industry as a whole this year.
Wow I struck a nerve lol. “Some of the most innovation in the snowmobile industry in years”

Belt drive Poo released 2013
GPS gauge Poo released 2017
850+cc engine Doo released 2017
 

euphoric1

Well-known member
Wow I struck a nerve lol. “Some of the most innovation in the snowmobile industry in years”

Belt drive Poo released 2013
GPS gauge Poo released 2017
850+cc engine Doo released 2017
No, you didn't Indy, I am aware of belt drive, GPS guage... whoopee doo I could care less, give me a tach a fuel guage and a temp guage I'm good... and pretty sure we are all aware of 850 engine... even me. This is a whole new chassis, lay down engine, engine positioning, center of gravity improvements, weight, some new engine technology, steering improvements, composite running boards, so yes..... innovation besides the basics and some of us still do like 2 stroke engines. You didn't strike a nerve indy, all is good, I will just never understand the negativity the brand receives, especially with the "letter release" when I assure you they are all in a hard spot and one just more public about it.
 

indy_500

Well-known member
No, you didn't Indy, I am aware of belt drive, GPS guage... whoopee doo I could care less, give me a tach a fuel guage and a temp guage I'm good... and pretty sure we are all aware of 850 engine... even me. This is a whole new chassis, lay down engine, engine positioning, center of gravity improvements, weight, some new engine technology, steering improvements, composite running boards, so yes..... innovation besides the basics and some of us still do like 2 stroke engines. You didn't strike a nerve indy, all is good, I will just never understand the negativity the brand receives, especially with the "letter release" when I assure you they are all in a hard spot and one just more public about it.
I hear ya, I think the sled will be a hit amongst snowmobilers, I’ve heard nothing but positive things, just disagree with it being innovative for the industry as almost everything “new” about the catalyst has already been around for some time.
 

rayds

Member
first- I have to admit my blood runs green. I am not a huge fan of textron but give them credit for communication to one of the most important part of the entire network-- the dealers. the dealers were given notice of what was happening up at TRF, and without the communication to dealers, the rumor mill would spread faster than a communication letter. I believe other sled manufacturers are also experiencing slowdowns, driven by some other dealers---wow quite the inventory sitting around, The same is happening in other segments-- green in color as well with layoffs, plants shutdown or shutting down for extended periods. The auto industry is now offering a lot rebates and low financing.

I am some what confused about economy, road travel and air travel setting records, cruise line reservations up over 20% compared to ago. Maybe $'s being spent on areas not requiring an unknown--snow,
 

jr37

Well-known member
Most people just can't justify spending money on big ticket recreational items. Boats ext. The Bidenomics is really hurting most people with this rampant inflation. More layoffs are coming, the problem can no longer be downplayed as transient. It's here and it's done lots of damage to people's discretionary spending.
Yup, every dealer of all brands of motorsports have a yard full of inventory. Sitting on a bunch of sleds is bad enough, but they've got lots full of atvs, utvs and everything else. It's going to take more than 1 good snow season to reset all of this.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
No snow season of 2024 is being felt by all snomo biz! We have to see how snowfall continues to evolve this season another bad season and we will experience a double whammy to the market. Some of you may know that AWSC and DNR are considering raising the prices on trail permits and registrations to help bear revenue shortfalls for no grooming last season. If you don’t groom you don’t earn funds for the next season so this year will be ok provided the snowfall and grooming normalizes. Otherwise a lot of $ increases will be implemented to cover possible shortfalls. Lots of problems ahead for the consumer, OEMs and snomo clubs so keep your ear to the ground and share the information.
 

elf

Well-known member
Every powersports manufacturer is struggling right now and letting people go. I listen in to the Polaris earnings call and they've reduced salaried headcount by 5%, along with hourly reductions. BRP is selling off Sea Doo. Huge incentives to buy 1-2 yr old models, reduced 2025 build schedule to limit dealer inventories and help them sell thru. Its a tough time to be either a manufacturer, dealer, or even investor in those companies right now. PII stock at $65/share when last year at one point it was $130. We need 3-4 years of good snow and lower interest rates to start driving demand again. Or maybe another pandemic, that worked last time:)
 

euphoric1

Well-known member
Every powersports manufacturer is struggling right now and letting people go. I listen in to the Polaris earnings call and they've reduced salaried headcount by 5%, along with hourly reductions. BRP is selling off Sea Doo. Huge incentives to buy 1-2 yr old models, reduced 2025 build schedule to limit dealer inventories and help them sell thru. Its a tough time to be either a manufacturer, dealer, or even investor in those companies right now. PII stock at $65/share when last year at one point it was $130. We need 3-4 years of good snow and lower interest rates to start driving demand again. Or maybe another pandemic, that worked last time:)
that's why I say the next 2 years will likely be a reset, I agree with you 1000% one good winter is not going to fix it and no more pandemics please LOL
 
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indy_500

Well-known member
Every powersports manufacturer is struggling right now and letting people go. I listen in to the Polaris earnings call and they've reduced salaried headcount by 5%, along with hourly reductions. BRP is selling off Sea Doo. Huge incentives to buy 1-2 yr old models, reduced 2025 build schedule to limit dealer inventories and help them sell thru. Its a tough time to be either a manufacturer, dealer, or even investor in those companies right now. PII stock at $65/share when last year at one point it was $130. We need 3-4 years of good snow and lower interest rates to start driving demand again. Or maybe another pandemic, that worked last time:)
Agree with all, except the pandemic is partially to blame for the situation the industry is currently in (not just bad snow years). Governmental decisions surrounding the pandemic caused the massive inflation, which means everyone has less spending money for toys. The pandemic also boosted sales for a few years from stimulus money, or from people wanting to get outside therefore buying recreational vehicles. Now those first time buyers already sold off or aren’t coming back to the dealers to buy another unit.

Manufacturers overspent for a few years when times were good, dealerships adjusted the way they operate and spend their money as well when things were booming, and now it’s all crashed in their face hard with no warning.

As for Cat, the bulletin they posted is very vague and open ended. There is no hard restart date promised for production. They “expect” to resume, which doesn’t leave me feeling warm and fuzzy.
 

SledTL

Active member
The economy has been running on the premise of unlimited year over year growth, and people mainly above 50 years old propping up so many of these industries (pretty much all recreation). That train is ending and nobody knows how to adjust things. Its a macro economic issue. You want a good 401k for retirement, cool the bean counters are gonna do their thing. Housing has been turned into an investment weapon now. When that is your biggest line item in the budget everything else goes out the window.
 

SHOOT2KILL

Active member
More opinions welcome...Heres the short/sweet version...Textron got caught lying to the Arctic Cat investors regarding how much leftover inventory they had after the acquisition of the company in 2017...They tried to defraud them and ended up having to pay $7.9 million
 
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