Arrow signs vs Turn-arrow signs in Wisconsin

Z

zozo2

New member
Well, one thing's for certain--Wisconsin's continuing confusion over the use of turn arrows vs. curve ahead warning signs is very much alive and well. Of course is doesn't help that the current Wisconsin snowmobile trail signing handbook shows on page 4 that "Directional arrows should.....and be placed in advance of the turn....." Presently some clubs and counties are doing just that--using directional arrows (turn-arrow signs, those little rectangular 6"X12" signs) in place of a uniform diamond shaped 12"X12" warning sign. Guide signs such as directional arrows or chevrons are always rectangular or square and direct snowmobiles to make a sharp or gradual turn or curve to the left or right. They should be placed AT THE CURVE OR TURN, and snowmobiles turn IN FRONT OF those signs. If the curve or turn requires advance notification, then a WARNING SIGN (a yellow diamond shaped sign)--an arrow with a leg--should be used at some distance prior to reaching the turn point. The same uniform signing techniques that are used nation-wide for marking roadways and highways are usually followed for snowmobile trails. This means red octagon signs for stop signs, yellow diamond shaped signs for warnings of an approaching situation such as bridge ahead, stop ahead, curve ahead, intersection ahead, etc. etc.
Not sure how this problem somehow slipped by the trail signing handbook proofreaders, but it did, and it is still a Wisconsin problem out there on the trails.
Don't bash me too hard on this. I am merely making this post as a mindful "please be aware" notice. It is a safety concern for snowmobilers. We must keep in mind that the arrow vs. turn-ahead warning sign placement is a continuing problem in Wisconsin and that the placement of these signs is NOT uniform as we ride between different counties and club segments on our trail system.
 
W

whitedust

Well-known member
IDK seems fine to me comes down to ride what you see not what the sign says. Signs help but should never ride sign to sign as only reference. A lot more signs in WI than MI by a long shot but ride both states aok.
 
M

MZEMS2

New member
It's possible that the trails marked a bit less than perfect, may very well be club, unfunded trails. Where the funded trails get inspected a bit more strictly. ?? Just guessing
 
W

witz

New member
Is this really a problem? Be happy we have any signs for turns. Michigan took them all down last season
 
1

1fujifilm

Well-known member
witz said:
Is this really a problem? Be happy we have any signs for turns. Michigan took them all down last season
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One thing WI does better than MI is fund and put up signs that say how many miles to the next city. I am acclimated to it now and schedule gas accordingly. Seems backwards, MI should have these type of signs as stops are more spread out and WI is city to city.

Frank
 
P

POLARISDAN

New member
witz said:
Is this really a problem? Be happy we have any signs for turns. Michigan took them all down last season
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absolutely false..rode 8 days and was wondering what all the fuss was about last year..all curves and turns marked just fine..no bridge signs tho..would like to see those back
 
S

Swampy

Member
I'm out signing every chance I get and do you know how long it takes to change all the signs to the way they should be? Holy Cow, I swear,
every time I go for a ride or take the groomer out, I think somebody comes out and changes them back with the arrow before the corner!! Nock It Off!! lol We have over 275 miles of trails with 100 or so being funded and I think we might have half of the funded signed correctly. All of the sudden the season starts and it seems that signing gets thrown to the wayside. Then spring comes and it's ... aah ... we'll get it next year. As said by our club President ... " A guy could work on trails all day, every day and still not get it all done." Pass the Beer Nuts!!
 
chords

chords

Active member
whitedust said:
IDK seems fine to me comes down to ride what you see not what the sign says. Signs help but should never ride sign to sign as only reference. A lot more signs in WI than MI by a long shot but ride both states aok.
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Perhaps you have changed your view. I remember you being quite distraught many times with the removal and absence of " bridge ahead " signs
 
W

whitedust

Well-known member
chords said:
Perhaps you have changed your view. I remember you being quite distraught many times with the removal and absence of " bridge ahead " signs
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No... No talking about turn signs in WI & MI... I agree with Dan " bridge ahead " signs should be back on all trails in MI!
 
G

groomerdriver

New member
Even though there's a handbook, signing in WI varies almost club by club. Maybe Swampy or others can confirm this....was it 3-4 years ago where the DNR changed the "corner" sign to that large yellow/black chevron thing? Before that it was that skinny yellow/black arrow that was hard to see at all? Then before that was the orange/black arrow?

The DNR can change the signing reg's all they want but until the clubs have the FUNDS and the MANPOWER to change them all, be happy that there's signs at all.

ADD: I don't know if this is a statewide change (or just the areas around me) but you can't just have a CAUTION sign anymore. You MUST state what the "caution" is about. i.e. "Caution Open Water Ahead" or "Caution Logging Ahead" or "Caution Kamakazee Doo Rider Around The Next Corner" (kidding guys!)

There's one county where the main trail guy is making the clubs change all of their CAUTION signs. Yikes!
 
B

buddah2

Member
groomerdriver said:
... You MUST state what the "caution" is about. i.e. "Caution Open Water Ahead" or "Caution Logging Ahead" or "Caution Kamakazee Doo Rider Around The Next Corner" (kidding guys!)
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Isn't that last one the most common of the bunch? Certainly is in the Yoop...........
 
J

jr37

Well-known member
http://dnr.wi.gov/files/PDF/pubs/cf/CF0023.pdf?o=n

All of us Volunteers do the best we can. I don't know of anyone that carries the Signing Handbook with them when they sign, but I am pretty sure that we all do the best we can to make the trails safe. If you are out on the trail and find that something is not signed safely, please be sure to call that county's snowmobile coordinators office to let them know about it. We all want safe trails, sometimes it helps to have an outside pair of eyes.
 
R

rocky367

Member
I saw an excellent presentation on trail signing a few years sgo but i can't find it now. Broke everything down in a slideshow. I will agree that signing varies within counties. The state needs to get out and do an inspection and make everyone do the same signing for uniformity.
 
S

Swampy

Member
united said:
I definitely think there should be some type of bridge ahead warning. Here is the trail signing recommendation from the International Association of Snowmobile Administrators. Why we all cannot just follow this, I do not know. This would create at least a low level base line from state to state that could be expanded with extra detail, as desired.

http://snowiasa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/IASA-Signing-Guidelines-2014.pdf
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Sorry but read the first post again and then look at your guidelines. On the last page it has the direction arrows before the corner. That's what he's talking about. This is incorrect. Nothing like beating a dead horse ahe?? Didn't somebody post this last year?? lol
 
U

united

Active member
Swampy said:
I'm out signing every chance I get and do you know how long it takes to change all the signs to the way they should be? Holy Cow, I swear,
every time I go for a ride or take the groomer out, I think somebody comes out and changes them back with the arrow before the corner!! Nock It Off!! lol We have over 275 miles of trails with 100 or so being funded and I think we might have half of the funded signed correctly. All of the sudden the season starts and it seems that signing gets thrown to the wayside. Then spring comes and it's ... aah ... we'll get it next year. As said by our club President ... " A guy could work on trails all day, every day and still not get it all done." Pass the Beer Nuts!!
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Yeah, I don't think you get it. What signs are you using to indicate turn ahead?

Let's keep it simple for now, as the original post says diamond shaped arrow signs before the turn and rectangle shaped arrow signs at / in the turns. Any questions?
 
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W

whitedust

Well-known member
Swampy said:
Sorry but read the first post again and then look at your guidelines. On the last page it has the direction arrows before the corner. That's what he's talking about. This is incorrect. Nothing like beating a dead horse ahe?? Didn't somebody post this last year?? lol
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Yeah agree read the sign... ride your sled....I don't really care if the entire state is uniform or not.....that dead horse is in the grave.lol
 
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