Avalanche Awareness, Rescue Training?

[Hoosier]

I think it's less that people are lazy and more that they don't understand the risks. We rode the Togwotee area last year and didn't have any specific training. We rode with guides 2 days and without guides 2 days. The days without guides, we didn't do anything that I considered extreme (we didn't get too far off the beaten path) but I still wished we would have had some gear and training (we rented beacons). To be honest, we had no idea what is dangerous and what is not. Before we head out there again (it will be a few years), I definitely want to invest in the training and gear.

To me, this is similar to the tek vest. The first time you hear someone talking about it, you automatically respond by saying that's just for the Blair morgan wannebees (i.e., either the professionals or the crazies). Then, after you hear more and more people talking about it, you start to think it would be a good idea (you start to think, if I ever got into an accident, I sure would be happy I spent the money on the vest).

 

[mezz]

The only reason I initially felt it may be a bit harsh on the "no training no trip" was an entirely different look at you making the trip. If He/they are against any type of training, or guides for that matter, then I would say hold your position on that statement. Either that, or, they can go and ride the trails like some of the girlfriends & wives do while you go do your thing out in the backwoods with an experienced group. As I stated earlier, it's for the safety of everyone involved. You need someone out there with the knowledge & experience of the area's you ride in & the guides at Togwotee are well versed, including avy education. As was stated in an earlier post, Avalanche Avoidance is the best, but you do have to be able to recognize what to avoid, good luck.-Mezz

 

[polarisrider1]

I think it's less that people are lazy and more that they don't understand the risks. We rode the Togwotee area last year and didn't have any specific training. We rode with guides 2 days and without guides 2 days. The days without guides, we didn't do anything that I considered extreme (we didn't get too far off the beaten path) but I still wished we would have had some gear and training (we rented beacons). To be honest, we had no idea what is dangerous and what is not. Before we head out there again (it will be a few years), I definitely want to invest in the training and gear.

To me, this is similar to the tek vest. The first time you hear someone talking about it, you automatically respond by saying that's just for the Blair morgan wannebees (i.e., either the professionals or the crazies). Then, after you hear more and more people talking about it, you start to think it would be a good idea (you start to think, if I ever got into an accident, I sure would be happy I spent the money on the vest).

X2 on the TEK vest.

 

[polarisrider1]

Mike Duffy is coming back to Michigan, He will be at Grand Rapids on Dec 3rd, at Fox Shawmutt Hills from 3pm to 7:30pm Contact Ron at ron@tripsoutwest.com to sign up

Thank you for the info Kevin. We got a guy who we are forcing to go if he thinks he is riding with us at IP. (Deaks trip) Actually he called me and asked if Mike was coming back to GR this year.

 

[willey]

I think it's less that people are lazy and more that they don't understand the risks. We rode the Togwotee area last year and didn't have any specific training. We rode with guides 2 days and without guides 2 days. The days without guides, we didn't do anything that I considered extreme (we didn't get too far off the beaten path) but I still wished we would have had some gear and training (we rented beacons). To be honest, we had no idea what is dangerous and what is not. Before we head out there again (it will be a few years), I definitely want to invest in the training and gear.

To me, this is similar to the tek vest. The first time you hear someone talking about it, you automatically respond by saying that's just for the Blair morgan wannebees (i.e., either the professionals or the crazies). Then, after you hear more and more people talking about it, you start to think it would be a good idea (you start to think, if I ever got into an accident, I sure would be happy I spent the money on the vest).

X3 on the Tekvest. Got one last year after my buddy smoked a deer. Never ride without it!

 

[Skylar]

I think anyone who heads west needs to take the class, it is an eye opener, and a great learning tool. Last year I had to nag and nag at my buddy to take the class, along with his 15 year old son. We were going to the snowies, and I wanted all of us to take the class. I finally told him this, " how are you going to feel, telling MY wife and 16 year old daughter that you could not rescue me from an avy, and I am now dead, because you didn't think it was worth taking the class?"

Have your buds who don't want to take the class, go to youtube and type in avalanche, have them watch some of the videos, and then ask them, " if that were me, what would you do?"

 

[cuzzinolaf]

The class you go to and gear you buy will save my life. My knowledge and gear will save your life. For $50 I don't understand why you wouldn't take it. I hope there is a local class this year because I'd like a refresher. If you're questioning the class you need to take it.

 

[snowww1]

This is a great discussion. I like the idea of no training, no trip. More and more groups are taking that stance. I've seen first hand what happens when people do not have the training. A
At Hay Days, two guys came up to me and were asking for advice on beacons. They said they had an "incident" last winter and needed to get gear. What had happened to them was that a friend with a beacon got buried and they were left standing there with no gear while the friend was buried. Luckily, some other riders came on scene and rescued the buried friend. I asked how it felt to stand there with no gear, "Awful!" was the reply. Unfortunately, avalanche education is reactionary for many people. It's sad to see someone take the class after a riding partner died. For many, they realize all the mistakes they made in causing the avalanche and during the rescue. I also know of people who did everything right and still lost a friend. Classes always fill after a fatality.

Fatalities were down substantially in the US last year. I read the accident reports and also the survival accounts. Riders were still getting caught in avalanches last year. Many survived due to some amazing rescues by their well trained riding partners. Avalanche airbags are also making a difference.

Does education work? I know of 10 students in the last 5 years who have saved their own life or the life of another rider after taking the four hour classroom session. This is a short course, but intensive. To be successful, you have to implement what you have learned and practice. I highly recommend the on the snow rescue training.

Many riders feel they are not riding in avalanche terrain. I pass a slope meter around in class and most are shocked at how "low" angle a 30 degree slope is. It doesn't have to be a huge hillside to be dangerous.

The class is a great way to meet other riders who ride smart. Below are some of the classes scheduled for this year. I have also teamed up with Amber Holt of Backcountry Basics to offer a "Mountain Riding Academy". The course is a combination of her riding clinic and my avalanche class. Goal is to take your skills to a new level in one weekend. We'll be in Munising, MI Feb 10,11, Laramie, WY Jan 27, 28, 29 and in Island Park, ID a few days before the hillclimb (March 22, 23).

Thanks for the interest in the classes. Mike Duffy

Avalanche1.com

 

[Hoosier]

X3 on the Tekvest. Got one last year after my buddy smoked a deer. Never ride without it!

I now have 3 kids at home, ages 3 and under. It's starting to seem like a no-brainer all of a sudden. Plus it's the kind of snowmobiling purchase that I won't get any flack for doing! I think this will be the year I go forward with it.

 

[snowww1]

Here's some of the classes that are scheduled for the midwest:

Schedule Fall/Winter 2011-12:

Minnesota:

November 30 Monticello 6:00-10:00pm Wednesday
Sign up: Shane Stieve 763-295-2920
shanestieve@moonmotorsports.com
December 1 Marshall 6:00-10:00pm Thursday
Sign up: 507-532-9649
jimswenson@yourwaytofun.com
December 2 Stillwater 6:00-10:00pm Friday
Sign up: Kory 888-687-1697
kory@centurypower.com
December 12 Amboy 6:00-10:00pm Monday
Sign up: 507-674-3667
info@trailsidesports.com
December 16 Delano 6:00-10:00pm Friday
Sign up: 763-972-2677
greg@bikershop.com

Wisconsin:
October 15 Milwaukee-Snowmobile USA Show
Time:1-5pm Saturday
Sign up: duffyww1@aol.com
December 15 Marshfield 6:00pm-10:00pm Thursday
Sign up: Mike Trulen 715-387-1106
motomen352@hotmail.com

Iowa:
January 11 Remsen 6:00pm-10:00pm Wednesday
Sign up: Jim 712-448-2567 mjmanure@evertek.com

North Dakota:
November 28 or 29 Fargo 6:00pm-10:00pm Monday or Tuesday
Sign up: Call Jill 701-232-5000 or jill@umotorsinc.com

More Locations: Contact duffyww1@aol.com for more details.

Denver, CO-Rocky Mtn Snowmobile Expo Oct 8,9
Aberdeen, SD-Nov 12th
UP of Michigan-Houghton and Munising in February. Times to be announced.

Take the class with your riding partners.

 

[willey]

I now have 3 kids at home, ages 3 and under. It's starting to seem like a no-brainer all of a sudden. Plus it's the kind of snowmobiling purchase that I won't get any flack for doing! I think this will be the year I go forward with it.

That was my other main reason. My 2 year old daughter needs her daddy!!!

 

[polarisrider1]

That was my other main reason. My 2 year old daughter needs her daddy!!!

Looks like you answered your own questions. Now get the vest, avy training, avy gear and sign up for a trip with Moms and you will have a brand new bunch of riding buddies. I can help you out with any of the above. You will have no use for trails ever again!!

 

[willey]

Looks like you answered your own questions. Now get the vest, avy training, avy gear and sign up for a trip with Moms and you will have a brand new bunch of riding buddies. I can help you out with any of the above. You will have no use for trails ever again!!

I have it on my todo list PR1. I am hoping some day I might be able to take multiple trips west!!!

 

[Firecatguy]

My group went threw this same thing years ago and thank god they all listend and went....thanks Mike for offering this class!!!!if you have a group of friends who are thinking of going they need to take class just to open eyes to what can or will happen.......its very selfish to say you dont need a class yet you still go into the backcountry as some have stated you dont need a class for YOU!!!you need a class FOR ME!!!!!Mike show this video at the begining of his class and I think this is what woke up the group I ride with.......just show this to them!!!!

 

[Firecatguy]

here the video.....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3K8KblMmstY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

second part

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/u-rnmDfhgOE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Firecatguy]

The 3rd Part...........


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-wi58UA53ro" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[cuzzinolaf]

A dumb move for two sledders to be on a hill but this is an average hill out west. I don't think I would have thought it would slide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IItP7dVoYc

 

[blizzardmk]

Lots of good advice here. I don't think "no class, no trip" is unreasonable. Whatever you have to do to make them realize how serious the consequences are.

One additional thing - pay attention to the avalanche forecasts for the area you'll be riding in. Sign up for daily emails. While not a substitute for training, they'll give you a pretty good feel for snowpack stability. Here are a couple:
http://www.mtavalanche.com/current
http://www.jhavalanche.org/advisories.php

 

[Firecatguy]

This will give you an Idea how little of a hill it takes to take your life!!!!


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1ynAm5Wao1I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[willey]

Everytime I watch those videos it sends a pretty strong message!

Found this pretty interesting. A group in West Yellowstone setup a beacon practice area. See the link to the article. http://www.westyellowstonenews.com/news/article_0518b650-1b84-11e0-acd6-001cc4c03286.html