Catalyst ride reports
- Thread starter euphoric1
- Start date
Hmmmm? Isn't this the last year, and then done with Yami engines used in AC sleds? Perhaps AC using up Pro-Cross chassis inventory, or something else is coming? Such as a Textron/AC purpose designed, built snowmobile 4-stroke? Maybe intended to be used in the Pro-Cross chassis, as a better balanced/fit for better handling, plus a way to reduce some front end weight?
No way of knowing no leaks on Textron lay down 4s no way to know if they are interested. We do know there is a market for procross Yamaha 4s eps easy peasy to tap into that since no where to go but AC.
IMO YamaCats are pretty small piece of market share with those limited offerings? And pricey too. I talked with a close friend two days ago, he knows a guy who is trying out running a new Poo 4 stroke XC? It sounds as a over priced flop as fuji related to also.
my 25 yes, beyond that?
Hopefully a total AC 4 stoke purpose built sled. 
bayfly
Active member
If you combine the Sidewinder and the Thundercat market, I don’t think it’s that small. It’s not unusual to see groups of Sidewinders in the UP, as well as Thundercats. After riding that 9000 Turbo on the trails, it’s awfully hard to scale back on that power. Just ask my wife. I seldom get to ride it anymore because she’s addicted. If AC can pull those all in it could be a nice segment for those willing to pay the $. I imagine they are high margin sleds as well.IMO YamaCats are pretty small piece of market share with those limited offerings? And pricey too. I talked with a close friend two days ago, he knows a guy who is trying out running a new Poo 4 stroke XC? It sounds as a over priced flop as fuji related to also.
my 25 yes, beyond that?
Totally agree all AC has to do is offer what they have building for themselves and Yamaha all along easy peasy for them. I would be surprised Textron would walk away from that. The catalyst R&D should be a separate issue and I don’t see a new lay down 4s being a short term project.
Snowbrap101
Member
One thing to remember AC only own like 4% of the market. I think someone on this site did the math on how many sleds they build in a year I thought it was only a couple thousand? Over 300 miles last week in SE Wisconsin saw two catalysts.
Perhaps, but if it is so, why did Yamaha give up, and get out? Perhaps the lack of numbers? AC needs a Fresh, New Modular Designed/Built Engine/Chassis 4-stroker to successfully excel in sales numbers. One chassis that can cover all the bases power wise, in order to be able to legitly compete against the competitors. IMO, and a close friend, who's very loyal to AC, and rides AC 7000's.
bayfly
Active member
I don’t know the inside issues involved but it seemed like Yama only had the Sidewinder lately. You can’t run a whole brand with one model. I just think the Sidewinder riders would be a good tuck in for AC, and worth pursuing. It’s interesting to hear the stats thrown around. 4% market? Does anyone really have actual market stats? Is this annual sales or licensed sleds or produced (but maybe not sold) or actual sleds on the trail? 100% of the guys who rode with me last weekend were on AC and 2/3 were Catalysts. But that’s meaningless information if you’re trying to measure actual market data.
Come on Abe you know Yamaha wouldn’t invest in snowmobiles just liked easy money with blue Cats and Yamaha engines. The OEM agreement developed a power cruiser market that many riders liked and still like. All Cat has to do is keep on keeping on and that market is theirs. Whatever Textron does with the Catalyst is a separate issue and may have nothing to do with the 4s market product line. Procross with Yamaha engines is a cash cow minimal investment required and those people have no where else to go for new sleds. Very easy no brainer money for Cat. Your not wrong that a single chassis 2s -4s platform is eventually where cat could end up years down the road but in the near future the low hanging procross with Yamaha engines is obviously easy money.
So if Yamaha got out of profitable snowmobiles due to global emissions their cycles will be gone soon too? Seems if Yamaha 4-strokes had a emissions problem, AC would have dropped them at the same time? As it appears, the AC 4 stroke sleds help to lower AC's emission scores? Somewhat puzzling? Hoosier I too hope to see a whole new modular designed, purpose built for AC sleds, 4-stroke engine line up of various power levels, such as Doo. That's what AC needs, and as it looks Poo really, seriously is not into 4-strokes.
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Snowbrap101
Member
Couple of years old, but if Ski doo owns 60% of the snowmobile market, I've heard Poo owns 35%, that only leaves 5% for Cat and Yamaha....not good for competition hopefully Cat bounces back.
bayfly
Active member
Couple of years old, but if Ski doo owns 60% of the snowmobile market, I've heard Poo owns 35%, that only leaves 5% for Cat and Yamaha....not good for competition hopefully Cat bounces back.
A couple of years ago, Composite stated that Ski-Doo’s market share was about 50%, Poo was 33%, AC was 15%, and Yamaha was 5%. I have no idea where they get their numbers. https://compositsnowmobiletracks.co...-Doo is definitely the,.), a Canadian company.
Couple of years old, but if Ski doo owns 60% of the snowmobile market, I've heard Poo owns 35%, that only leaves 5% for Cat and Yamaha....not good for competition hopefully Cat bounces back.
Agree we will never get exact market share figures since no one lets those stats out. What snowmobile OEM is the best is laughable and depends on what kind of snowmobile you want for what purpose. Amusing article not worth the ink to print it like asking what religion is the best and of course God is on our side not yours. Lol
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It very well may be the easy money $$ whitedust, but it's no way a big market mover. Or worse yet, as a market numbers builder. Just my opinion, but sadly the last 4 to 5 years sales bare the bad news. Many Yam riders were totally disgusted with the mixed breed YamaCats. I too was taken in with Yami BS about building, and producing an all new, Pure Yamaha snowmobile. Sadly that was all BS! And then the fact of vast reductions of AC, or Yam dealers left, makes it all the worse to try and build sales numbers imo. Most of my AC riding buds have finally moved on to Poo, and Doo, 2 strokes, and 4 strokes. Once they are gone, who knows? One day on the trails will show that, and, it was easy too see that Yamaha was quitting. Sadly so it is, and I absolutely want AC to excel, and thrive in the future! There no way back to what they had once been, as I see it.
Abe my only point was low hanging profitable fruit for a procross Yamaha 4s market without a home that AC can fulfill. Riders like the Sidewinders and Yamaha is gone after 2025 model year AC still has it in the 2024 product line and probably will in 2025 too. Imo whatever AC decides to do with the Catalyst is a separate issue that will take time and R&D money to address 4s if it’s even in the plan. If I’m a bean counter I would like cash cows that all I have to do is control manufacturing costs and produce a quality product to a market that will come to me by just having the product in my line up. Imo stupid to turn your back on that market. Once the Yamaha Sidewinder with eps exits the market only the Thundercat is left.
bayfly
Active member
The article contains market share data that’s quite a bit different than the numbers thrown around here. It shouldn’t be that much of a mystery since registrations indicate the brand of each sled. I would think that using state registrations would be one way of measuring market share without any help from the manufacturers. The article doesn’t cite their source of the data so who knows. I hadn’t read the whole article at first, but my take on it is that they indicate each brand has their pluses and minuses and each OEM may offer the best sled for someone depending on the needs of the end user. Seemed pretty reasonable to me.