CNC Machinists
- Thread starter indy_500
- Start date
700classic
New member
Way to go indy!
indy_500
Well-known member
I said that I like to work with my hands and I feel you lose that aspect with engineering.
I'm just glad I got it, that interview was really hard, and i was really nervous during it LOL
entered in the trade in 85. by 93 i started my own shop and by 2001 it had grown to 25 employees. i sold in 2005 due to the nature of the business...high stress, low margins and the fear of each and every customer potentially going broke.
i did very well, i love the trade. not everyone is cut out to operate a machine for the rest of their lives, for me i could not have done that...but i know many great guys that love it. i needed more, that led me to move to engineering and design.
my former shop currently is doing very well, i sold out but the shop continued. things are booming these days for those that survived...but about 70% of the shops did not make it the last 11 yrs. i am currently back in the trade, unbelievably working in a high-end shop in the west upper peninsula.
speaking as a former owner, from a few years back....apprentice programs are ok, but not of really anything i counted as important. i did the program myself in the late 80's and could have taught most of my classes far better than the instructors....on the job training is far better for this trade imo.
it is a good trade, potential for good money if you are motivated. you are inside when it is cold and wet and it is usually air conditioned when hot...good environment.
while things are booming now, the fact is that it is because the supply side of tooling is so small now. the majority of our things are now built on places like China and even middle east countries...and that isnt going to change until somehow the pricing scale evens out.
good career and now is a good time...i would go for it if i were u.
i did very well, i love the trade. not everyone is cut out to operate a machine for the rest of their lives, for me i could not have done that...but i know many great guys that love it. i needed more, that led me to move to engineering and design.
my former shop currently is doing very well, i sold out but the shop continued. things are booming these days for those that survived...but about 70% of the shops did not make it the last 11 yrs. i am currently back in the trade, unbelievably working in a high-end shop in the west upper peninsula.
speaking as a former owner, from a few years back....apprentice programs are ok, but not of really anything i counted as important. i did the program myself in the late 80's and could have taught most of my classes far better than the instructors....on the job training is far better for this trade imo.
it is a good trade, potential for good money if you are motivated. you are inside when it is cold and wet and it is usually air conditioned when hot...good environment.
while things are booming now, the fact is that it is because the supply side of tooling is so small now. the majority of our things are now built on places like China and even middle east countries...and that isnt going to change until somehow the pricing scale evens out.
good career and now is a good time...i would go for it if i were u.
Yes, Extreme Tool and Engineering in Wakefield. I went expecting a ma and pa shop but found a very modern and decent size company building high quality stuff. nice to get back in the trade again...much nicer to be an employee and not have all the worries!
i did mean to say regarding the apprentice programs....at least for me and most that i knew in the trade, it is far more important to have an employee that shows up on time every day and can follow directions...we could easily train anyone that could do those two things. trouble is, those are increasingly hard qualities to find, even in the skilled labor force.
not sure i agree on the button pusher -vs- true machinist statement. aside from a few old timers, i havent seen a true machinist (defined by the contrast) in 25 years. the days of a guy with a blueprint at a Bridgeport or a manual lathe making parts by hand not only doesnt exist on any real scale (in my world at least), it is ineffecient and unpractical
everyone needs to have the skill to run a manual machine or precision grind something...but button pushers are capable of tweaking the programs to hold tolerances that before were time incredibly difficult. The computer allows us to do things that were not possible in the past (shapes and otherwise) to exact precision and repeatibility.
not saying that there isnt a shop out there otherwise, but most of us that grew up in the trade in the last 25 yrs are not skilled to manually do the things the old timers can/could do.
lots of very skilled guys but the days of a guy using the machinist handbook to choose the right cutter and making a gear on a bridgeport are past. super skills but no longer needed. one might say that the ability to manipulate 3d cad and design a 3d object on a 2d screen and remove the metal using your imagination so that the button pusher can then take it, adjust and tweek to get a part that is near perfect....a very equal set of talents in my book.
eagle1
Well-known member
indy_500
Well-known member
Thanks guys!
@eagle1, I already know what that feels like LOL. Since winter ended I've been working every mon/wed/fri and every sat/sun. 4-4.5 hrs during weeknights and 6-7.5 hrs on the weekends. Not been fun, and I mow about a half dozen lawns a week on top of that. And you can't forget school 8-3 mon-fri. In fact I worked 9-3 today and just got back from mowing a lawn that took me 2.5 hrs. It was over a foot tall, it was a disaster! Not to mention I got some nylon/yarn stuck in my mower deck (not sure why it was in their yard) and my push mower wouldnt start so i had to go home and get another one
@eagle1, I already know what that feels like LOL. Since winter ended I've been working every mon/wed/fri and every sat/sun. 4-4.5 hrs during weeknights and 6-7.5 hrs on the weekends. Not been fun, and I mow about a half dozen lawns a week on top of that. And you can't forget school 8-3 mon-fri. In fact I worked 9-3 today and just got back from mowing a lawn that took me 2.5 hrs. It was over a foot tall, it was a disaster! Not to mention I got some nylon/yarn stuck in my mower deck (not sure why it was in their yard) and my push mower wouldnt start so i had to go home and get another one
eagle1
Well-known member
ha, ha yea you probably put more hours in than me. But all your hard work will, and already is paying off.
Not too many kids your age can say they paid for and maintain there trucks,sleds and mowers. Those life lessons will serve you well in life and I have no doubt you will excel in what ever career path you choose.
Not too many kids your age can say they paid for and maintain there trucks,sleds and mowers. Those life lessons will serve you well in life and I have no doubt you will excel in what ever career path you choose.
yamahauler
Active member
Congrats Indy.
@thebluff...agreed with the true machinist thing except one thing. If you know the manual mill/lathe and can do the CAD/CAM stuff, you are going to do well and I would consider that a real machinist nowadays. A button pusher is not a machinist no matter how you look at it. They generally only can change a few codes, not the 100+ that are out there. They generally can't trouble shoot a problem real well or think outside the box. They are usually trained to tweak something specific, setup something specific, etc... You give them a blueprint and they may be lost on where to start cutting if it wasn't laid out for them.
We tried to hire 5 yrs ago, interviewed 30 people...all said they were machinist. Then when asked what their experience was in an interview they stated that they loaded parts, change some code, etc... I tossed up a quick program on the board and said this is what the program did and what is should do, what needs to be changed and they didn't know where to start. They didn't know basic geometry, metric to english conversion, nothing. Maybe I got 30 bad ones, don't know but that is just my experience.
@thebluff...agreed with the true machinist thing except one thing. If you know the manual mill/lathe and can do the CAD/CAM stuff, you are going to do well and I would consider that a real machinist nowadays. A button pusher is not a machinist no matter how you look at it. They generally only can change a few codes, not the 100+ that are out there. They generally can't trouble shoot a problem real well or think outside the box. They are usually trained to tweak something specific, setup something specific, etc... You give them a blueprint and they may be lost on where to start cutting if it wasn't laid out for them.
We tried to hire 5 yrs ago, interviewed 30 people...all said they were machinist. Then when asked what their experience was in an interview they stated that they loaded parts, change some code, etc... I tossed up a quick program on the board and said this is what the program did and what is should do, what needs to be changed and they didn't know where to start. They didn't know basic geometry, metric to english conversion, nothing. Maybe I got 30 bad ones, don't know but that is just my experience.
This is so true...We have some youngs guys that can not tell me the insert grade on the tool they are using yet the box sits right on the desk in front off them and they expect and continually gripe that they are not getting mid 20/hr since they are "machinists" and not "operators". You would not believe the knowledge level that is lacking nowadays. Heck the other day a guy could not figure out why his part was off 0.094" and blamed the program turned out he could not even use his calculator to add the numbers correctly and enter in the wrong offset. Funny thing the machinist vs. operator debate is almost a daily topic here and boy does it raise some feathers.
Admit this or not but this is part of the problem with manufacturing going overseas (not trying to start a debate) but how can companies afford high wages for people that have little to no real "value-added" part of the product, this translates to expensive costs to manuf and who wants to do that. So the places that flourish are companies that have the highly skilled people and those people are generally paid fairly well, but the products are also more expensive but can not be made elsewhere for a multitude of reasons.
indy_500
Well-known member
Well, I put in my 2 weeks at Fleet Farm, kinda feel bad since it wasn't really "2 weeks". I didn't get an email from the machine shop until yesterday and I went in today to put in my notice, I start the 4th at the machine shop and I put in the 2nd as my last day, but I had asked off for the 31, 1, and 2 to go to the Crandon Brush Runs so it was only a week really... Hope Everything goes well its gonna feel weird waking up at 430 every morning LOL
mjkaliszak
New member
Wish ya the best indy and learn all you can. A good machinist makes for a better engineer anyday in my book.[/QUOTE]
You know it's funny, I'm back on the bench, last job 6.5 as an engineer, and everyone engineers especially want to be a maintenance/ tooling guy. They roll into the tooling area, want to borrow tools which they have NONE of or maybe at best a set of company issued calipers.... then continue to tell me how they are almost a toolmaker >>>>> LOL
All is see it a mess and a bunch of busted carbide drills & mills.... they will turn them black and shatter the ends ( what a hoot ). I actually have a 12" X 12" X 6" cardboard box worth of company damaged expendable tooling sitting there. They " smoked the stuff " at 35 -85 a cutter ( Garr ). AND the drama continues. It must be 4-5K worth of junk.
Always continue your education, I feel that there is a lack of old school toolmakers around . I havent seen anyone young in this trade that served an apprentiveship like I did many years ago. Back to basics, being able to make stuff the long way takes knowledge & skill. Heck nowadays you dont even have to make your own electrodes, in fact some of them are so complicated and in 1 piece that they have to be made on a cnc. Always good to know how to re-engineer a core or cavity detail so it can be repaired ... incase there is NO cnc around.
You know it's funny, I'm back on the bench, last job 6.5 as an engineer, and everyone engineers especially want to be a maintenance/ tooling guy. They roll into the tooling area, want to borrow tools which they have NONE of or maybe at best a set of company issued calipers.... then continue to tell me how they are almost a toolmaker >>>>> LOL
All is see it a mess and a bunch of busted carbide drills & mills.... they will turn them black and shatter the ends ( what a hoot ). I actually have a 12" X 12" X 6" cardboard box worth of company damaged expendable tooling sitting there. They " smoked the stuff " at 35 -85 a cutter ( Garr ). AND the drama continues. It must be 4-5K worth of junk.
Always continue your education, I feel that there is a lack of old school toolmakers around . I havent seen anyone young in this trade that served an apprentiveship like I did many years ago. Back to basics, being able to make stuff the long way takes knowledge & skill. Heck nowadays you dont even have to make your own electrodes, in fact some of them are so complicated and in 1 piece that they have to be made on a cnc. Always good to know how to re-engineer a core or cavity detail so it can be repaired ... incase there is NO cnc around.
Congrats again Indy, a little advice, like you haven't heard enough of that right, its not getting up at 4:30 that gets to you, its going to bed later then 10-11 a night that catches up with ya. When we are working 50's, I get up at 3:30, if I don't get to bed by 9, the whole next day I am tired. LOL.