Comments on AC 2021 New Line Up?

[G]

An employee of mine skipped the 120s and 200s and just went to an EVO for his 7 year old last year. Not even an overly big kid and he handled it just fine for 600 miles. He will continue to grow in to it this season. They are planning some 60 mile groomed ditch rides this season. You can't do that on a 120 or 200. His wife can also ride the EVO in a pinch. The other mfgrs are missing out.

 

[old abe]

An employee of mine skipped the 120s and 200s and just went to an EVO for his 7 year old last year. Not even an overly big kid and he handled it just fine for 600 miles. He will continue to grow in to it this season. They are planning some 60 mile groomed ditch rides this season. You can't do that on a 120 or 200. His wife can also ride the EVO in a pinch. The other mfgrs are missing out.

Agree with all of that!

 

[brad460]

$8k for a single cylinder mid sized sled. What they **** are they smoking in TRF???? I just bought my daughter a full size left over 2018 Indy 550 for $5,300. The mid-sized Polaris Evo's go for $5,500. $8k is not the right price point for this market. Yet another disaster for Cat.

The Polaris EVO is a cheap piece of crap worth $3000...Ski Doo is charging $8500 for 20+ year old technology in the 600 Sport. I do think $7600-$8000 is high, but you’re getting a decent cool looking sled ...

 

[xsledder]

You may be a little confused on the terminology. ...

Okay, so let's analyze your assumption. Where is it said that this is a beginner's sled on Cat's website. They are not advertising this as a tweener sled like Polaris did with the Evo. So, if you say this is a beginner's sled then prove it and show me where Cat says it is a beginners. Otherwise it is your unsubstantiated opinion.

Another point. I explained this sled to my wife and her response was "Oh, so a sled I can handle and ride." She is 5'-2" and weights far less than the average man so anything that is of what we call normal size by today's standards, which I will explain later, is to big for her. She has to sit on the gas tank to reach the handle bars and her feet barely touch the running boards when she sits on them. She has been riding a sled since the early '80's, so go ahead and try telling me is she a beginner rider? (I think not! Just a small rider.)

I would consider today's normal size sled to be a full-size ZR, Indy, MXz, or Vector. If you place one of today's sleds next to a large sled back in the '80's, which I have done with an '81 trail Cat or '86 Indy 400, the current sled is almost twice the size of the large sleds from the '80's. They have really grown over the decades.

Price is too high? Let's look at that. So the MSRP of a '86 Polaris Indy 400 was $3,500. At that time it was second in Polaris' line up to the top of the line Indy 600 with a MSRP of $3,750. I would say the Blast is comparable to the '86 400 in hp speed and features and that is why I am making the comparison. Like the 400, it has updated technology the for time period. (The Evo and MXz Sport doesn't but we will get to that later.) The Blast is half the price of Cat's top of the line Thundercat. So, we would have to get an '86 Polaris Star to get a similar price point comparison. So you are getting a sled that does over 70 mph for the same price point for a sled that did 45 mph may 50 mph at best? (By the way, all the MSRP is coming from NADA's website.) And you are saying that a sled that cost $2,200 less than the Blast with a top speed of 50 mph and advertised as a tweener sled is a better value? (I used the Evo with the electric start because the Blast has electric start on it.) But you can buy the upgrade kit for the Evo for another $1,500. Now the price difference is just $700. Wow! What savings!

Let us take it a step further. For $2,200 to $700 less you get the following:

- An old body style that has been out for almost a decade compared to a new body style.

- A sled advertised as a true tweener / newbie sled compared a sled that is advertised as a mid-size sled for any riding ability.

- A sled limited to 50 mph unless you lay down another 15 Benjamin's and brings it within $700 to a sled that exceeds that out of the box.

- A sled with a dated front suspension compared to a current front suspension only 4 years old.

- A mountain sled with a dated rear suspension compared to a sled with the latest innovation (the Alpha mono-rail.)

I can continue but by now you should get the point.

Going further yet. So you are comparing the price of sleds with decades old engine smokey technology (The Evo's 550 and MXz Sports 600) to a sled with new engine tech? Maybe the pricing should be the other way around of you think about it. Maybe Polaris and Ski-doo is charging too much for engine tech that has been paid for time and time again.

I am not brand loyal and I think all the sleds out there are good, but blind-brand loyalty is really annoying and ignorant and that is what I am pointing out with most of my posts. If you love your sled, great, good for you. But just remember when you go out and polish your Polaris or Ski-doo, wax it, sit on it, caress it, fawn over it, that super great slide rail-suspension and awesome front a-arm suspension on it was first brought to market by ARCTIC CAT!!! (How 'bout them apples?)

 

[dothedoo]

I am not brand loyal and I think all the sleds out there are good, but blind-brand loyalty is really annoying and ignorant and that is what I am pointing out with most of my posts. If you love your sled, great, good for you. But just remember when you go out and polish your Polaris or Ski-doo, wax it, sit on it, caress it, fawn over it, that super great slide rail-suspension and awesome front a-arm suspension on it was first brought to market by ARCTIC CAT!!! (How 'bout them apples?)

You're full of it on several points. Me, or anyone, questioning the success of a beginner/mid-size sled at a higher price point is not the result of brand loyalty, or bashing. It's just common sense. I hope AC sells a million of them....I hope Cat, Poo, and Yam all sell millions of sleds. The more they sell, the more pressure on my brand of choice to do better. I win.

To say this new AC isn't a beginner sled, is just nonsense. Don't get so butt hurt about the term beginner....use "entry level" if that makes you feel better. Good grief...when you described a child's toy, ZR200, as a beginner's sled, I about fell off my chair. lol

Also....the gymnastics you go through to justify the price point is not logical. Again, we're talking about targeting first time/inexperienced/youthful riders here. Do most of them really care if they're riding brand new technology? Good grief. Sure....young adults with money would care about the "sizzle" of new tech....no doubt. Dad's with money, who want to see junior hitting the trails looking like Tucker Hibbert, would also find it appealing. But, those aren't the majority of the target market. The overwhelming majority of riders in this market wouldn't know if they are riding a 2 stroke, 4 stroke, single/two/three cylinder sled. lol

So, the only ignorant brand loyalty you're pointing out is your own. lol

 

[scoot]

Is it the price or priorities? Eight Thousand dollars for a new sled for the family? But, but.... That would mean I might not get my new sled every year.... Let them ride beaters instead.
Growing up, our dad bought us three new late '70s AC 340 F/A Jags. We LOVED those little sleds! Mom tried one, and traded her "full size" sled for a new Jag of her own. Dad rode his early '70s Panther for another few years until he could finally afford a newer sled....
Today we have a fleet of small snowmobiles for our grand kids. A Kitty Cat, a newer ZR 120, two new ZR 200s, and four forty plus year old 250 AC Lynx's. The kids love the size of the Lynx, but I need to scan the internet for parts to keep them running. A few ZR 400 Blasts could replace a few of the Lynx. My wife and I are riding ten year old AC Fs. Priorities I guess....

 

[snobuilder]

Polaris Evo was designed to grow with the rider.
Part of the Evo "kit" includes a wider front end that takes the stance from 39" to full size and also increases susp. travel.
The ZR Blast ski stance is narrower than the Evo.
What does Cat offer for the Blast ....if they do?.... and WHAT will it cost?

Oh, and how do we know the Blast won't be "smokey"....LMAO.

 

[garageguy]

On the evo the throttle flipper limits the speed. As Snobuilder stated the rest of the kit is ride and suspension related.

 

[snobuilder]

On the evo the throttle flipper limits the speed. As Snobuilder stated the rest of the kit is ride and suspension related.

I would assume the Blast will have a throttle limiter as well to be considered a true tweener/starter sled

 

[katden4]

Mid size snowmobile may not be for everyone, but for the people looking for a great option, I am happy they are building them. The sport overall has been declining for years, and with new options like the Blast, and Evo, maybe some of the younger people will enjoy them, or people with smaller bodies. Full size snowmobiles don't fit all adults, and most younger people, so its actually a safer ride for them as well. Like I said, they are not for everyone, but a great option for the ones looking for that size snowmobile. I usually don't buy items based on 100% cost, but more for what the item will do for me. I usually buy a new SXS every couple years, and many people think that's a waste of money. Its a waste of money only if you don't use it. For me, I would rather spend a few bucks more, and get what you want, and most important is be happy with what you buy. If you buy a new Evo, and don't like it, but the Blast has more of what you need, how much did you really save? I think making a mountain version, and the utility one, is pretty aggressive for a company short on cash, but if it works good for them. You cant just build the one that is sold the most, 600 class? you have to come out with something new, and I think they have done a very good job of that with the Alpha and now the Blast. Just my thoughts.

 

[G]

I do not like all the front suspension hanging out in the wind on the Blast. There is also no front bumper to lift on and protect the hood a little bit. It is a beginner sled. It is going to get banged up. I know my earliest sleds all sustained front end damage of some sort. The front of the EVO is a little more robust. When it comes down to it the most important features on a beginner sled are as follows : Electric start. Heated grips and thumb warmer. Reverse. A decent sized gas tank so Dad doesn't have to go out and fill it up every hour. Junior is not going to care that much about suspension travel or lay down engines or any of that tech. Junior probably doesn't care what color it is either. Just so it goes.

 

[tsg]

Only time will tell who is right or who is wrong, and if the new Cat Blast will be a success. I am 50/50 on it, but the price is a big concern to me. I see a fair amount of 19 EVO's still available, so not sure about those either, and if there even is a "mid sized" market. Should be, but not sure there is one. As for the 200's, do not see where they fit in really, other then for riding around an open field. A 120 to an EVO or Blast is the logical move.

I have a 19 EVO with electric start and it is a really good, stable, mid sized sled. Yeah 50mph max is an issue, but not for a young teen or small rider who will ride a sled like this. The extended throttle lever and the ease of "pulling" it is one of the strongest attributes, and the mid sized frame works well. Plus, you can ride it on trails and do just fine.

With my older kids I had 550's, 440's, and 380 fans, and the throttle effort was what they all disliked. EVO takes care of this, as do larger non carbed sleds.

I have no plans on adding the EVO kit, plan on having my son use the sled for 2 years and i will sell it as is. A 600 EFI is the logical next step.

I am on my second 850 Doo, and my 25 year old son just bought a new 850 Doo. Absolutely love the motor and the sleds, but not sure my 25 year old needs one, even though he is a really good rider, and i am not sure so many others need 850's or bigger, given some of the riding skills, or lack of, i have witnessed.

Look me up at the end of the riding year, and i will have a nice ES EVO available.

 

[snobuilder]

I doubt it cost any more to build the Blast over the Evo.
Diff. Is that Cat is trying to recoup development cost which puts them at a huge disadvantage in the msrp vs Evo.

 

[tealracing16]

I hope it's successful as we need more young people in the sport. That being said...I have an 11 year old who just started riding last winter on an '87 340 Indy. Absolutely loves it. If next year when shes 12 wants a bigger sled, I'll put her on my '98 indy 500. That sled has the same power as the new AC but old a** suspension which is way past it's prime. But I'm not buying an 8k or even 5k sled for her to put 300 miles a year on. That's crazy for me to do. All kids want the newest and latest but with the lack of snow, until last year, I can't afford it. I may be like a lot of my friends and rent the one year we go up North. Yeah it's a lot but not as much as owning one.

In my opinion what is driving people out of this sport is cost. You'll always have die hards who buy new 850's every year. And you'll have people like me milking along there old iron just to ride it "one more year." But for me I would need 3 sleds and in a couple of years that goes to 5. That means big trailer, big truck or place up North to store them at. If I can buy a boat and go out for 7+ months every year, where's my payback on new sleds?

That's my $0.01...

 

[Skylar]

There are plenty of parents who can afford to buy one for their kids, no doubt about it.

Payback on a sled? There is no payback on a sled or any other powersports toy. They are nothing but a huge waste of money. I have a sled and sxs, because we are only on this planet once, and I'm going to enjoy myself while I'm here.

 

[byr 13]

You're full of it on several points. Me, or anyone, questioning the success of a beginner/mid-size sled at a higher price point is not the result of brand loyalty, or bashing. It's just common sense. I hope AC sells a million of them....I hope Cat, Poo, and Yam all sell millions of sleds. The more they sell, the more pressure on my brand of choice to do better. I win.

To say this new AC isn't a beginner sled, is just nonsense. Don't get so butt hurt about the term beginner....use "entry level" if that makes you feel better. Good grief...when you described a child's toy, ZR200, as a beginner's sled, I about fell off my chair. lol

Also....the gymnastics you go through to justify the price point is not logical. Again, we're talking about targeting first time/inexperienced/youthful riders here. Do most of them really care if they're riding brand new technology? Good grief. Sure....young adults with money would care about the "sizzle" of new tech....no doubt. Dad's with money, who want to see junior hitting the trails looking like Tucker Hibbert, would also find it appealing. But, those aren't the majority of the target market. The overwhelming majority of riders in this market wouldn't know if they are riding a 2 stroke, 4 stroke, single/two/three cylinder sled. lol

So, the only ignorant brand loyalty you're pointing out is your own. lol

so true !!!!!!

 

[WorkHardPlayHrd]

When I stepped my kids up I found a beautiful 1999 Z370 with only 800 miles on it. The kids fought over it. When my son turned 14 he claimed that he should have my spare sled a 1998 ZL 600. That was fine. He's 17 and still loves it. The sleds don't have to be new, and kids young bodies don't need perfect suspension. They just need a reliable, well maintained sled. The closest I've come to paying $8,000 for one of my kid's sleds was $6,000 for a 2012 Arctic Cat 800 XF that had 600 miles on it and was already rewrapped in her favorite color. PINK!!!! Perfect student, busts her butt in the barn by choice, and would never abuse it. But I never bought any of them a new sled. There are so many good used sleds out there just waiting to make your child happy! Think a winter version of Toy Story.

 

[ICT Sledder]

There are plenty of parents who can afford to buy one for their kids, no doubt about it.

Payback on a sled? There is no payback on a sled or any other powersports toy. They are nothing but a huge waste of money. I have a sled and sxs, because we are only on this planet once, and I'm going to enjoy myself while I'm here.

There are plenty of parents who will buy their kids one for literally no other reason than it is expensive (for what it is) and everyone knows it. People live out their rat race through their kids too. The phenomenon lives strong within the sledding community.

 

[tealracing16]

Skylar - I understand what you're saying but on this board this is a lot of discussion around the average age getting older, how do we get new kids involved in the sport etc. The release of an 8k beginner, smaller whatever you want to call it sled, puts it out of reach for the average Joe. You have decided to live your life and doing what you want to do because you're only on this planet once. I, and this is just me, can't justify a sled payment (or 2/3). I don't have a car payment and I can't see having a payment on a toy, for me I can't. This is why I believe the sport won't make it.

Everyone has to have a new sled or you aren't supporting the sport. If you don't have Klim gear, a new helmet and new heated goggles every year your not cool enough to go riding. Oh wow you have an old open two place trailer you pull with your minivan, please do not park next to my 80k truck and 20k trailer. These threads are insane to read. I'm speaking from a very generic middle class position and if I didn't snowmobile (and I'm the only one in my family that does), I could take the entire family to Florida for a week every winter. It's all about choices.

 

[katden4]

You make a great point about not everyone buying new, and I agree 100%, not everyone can do that, or should. This thread has many saying this machine is not for them because of the expense, guess what, in 5 years the machine will be 5 years old and significantly less money. Why is it that so many people are worried about right now, do you think about what the future will bring in years ahead? How many here have bought a brand new Kitty Cat, compared to how many have bought a used one? My guess would be 10-1 used over new. And that may even be low. I think its a great machine for the right person and right situation. It has a lot of great features that will fit many types of riding, and many different riding skills. Without new ideas, and coming out with new machines, we would all be riding some really horrible non reliable snowmobiles. Keep an open mind, and don't spend more that what is right for your needs, and everyone will enjoy riding snowmobiles. I think most people when buying snowmobile for their kids, get a used one to start, not too many that honestly can afford brand new, but for the folks that can afford it, it looks like a great option. I do think the used market for these units in a couple years will be very strong. 79 posts in a couple days, yes people have interest in this new option. Just my .02