polarisrider1
New member
Who believes Michigan is in a death spiral with trail permit prices? (Raising fees to chase expenses while running out families and those who can barely afford the sport).
Death Spiral
- Thread starter polarisrider1
- Start date
People who can afford an Ontario trip are different from people who are struggling to stay in the hobby. If you're contemplating whether it is even worth it anymore, all of these expenses come into play.
polarisrider1
New member
Guess you don't know me. 5 Ontario season permits a year , for years. Wyoming, Montana and Idaho permits also . Point is Michigan is in a death spiral with permits. Research it.
polarisrider1
New member
So true.
not unless said family is pulling mid 6 fig or ridding old stuff around the house
scoot
Member
It's not just the trail permits. I've said this before, snowmobiling has turned into an exaggerated caricature of what it used to be. I think if you asked many of the "you gotta pay to play" guys still in the sport, they'd admit they dont miss mom, dad and the kids clogging the trails on their 340s.
They can raise the cost of the permits to make up for the lost revenue from the families. But what about the kids and the future of the sport? One word that no one wants to hear might bring the families back. Speed limits.
They can raise the cost of the permits to make up for the lost revenue from the families. But what about the kids and the future of the sport? One word that no one wants to hear might bring the families back. Speed limits.
I'm a broken record on this but they need to get a bit creative and sell 3 day and 7 day passes also. If you are riding all season the permit price isn't an issue. If you're pulling the old iron out when the kids can go with you, or if you ride mostly in Wisconsin and then cross the border for a couple days, it's starting to get ridiculous.
Seems nuts to charge the guy in southwest MI the same as the guy living in the UP the same too. The seasons aren't nearly the same...
Seems nuts to charge the guy in southwest MI the same as the guy living in the UP the same too. The seasons aren't nearly the same...
I have a 26, 22 &17 year old........all the family has been riding since sitting in the backpack in front of me 20+ years ago..... we (the family) are chopping at the bit to get this season going........snowmobiling is our think, so we budget for the season... I agree the costs are OOC and because of that, younger folks are passing on this 120day sport (in a perfect season) .....I don't see my kids going out and spending $12k on a sled to use for a 4 months...then you compound sled costs with permits, registration, service, etc etc etc...Yes, sledding is like owning a boat just opposite season.......I believe my kids and there future families will sled, but not a certain.
Overall costs are a problem and the next 10 years of new sled sales will tell the story for trail riding. I'm not seeing the interest from 20 - 30 somethings like I did in the 90s and early 2000s. To me the haydays of trail riding are right now and the fall off is is very close. Older boomers are getting too old to ride & they are the peeps with the big bucks to spend on hi tech sleds. I don't have a lot of faith the next 10 years of trail sleddin will be as good as today. It is sad but life goes on.
mrsrunningbear
Active member
I think it's something MDNR has to do, raise the price, or there won't be any more trails. Caring for the trails is CRAZY expensive! I don't know how MDNR is staying above water with all the expenses. Groomers, groomer repairs, trails with 100 yr old culverts, bridges, grading and so on.
I think they are making changes in the program to be better about expenses but bottom line is they need more money.
Question: Do you want great trails but maybe feel you aren't getting them so why pay more for a permit?
I think they are making changes in the program to be better about expenses but bottom line is they need more money.
Question: Do you want great trails but maybe feel you aren't getting them so why pay more for a permit?
On the plus side there are a lot of sleds out there for sale right now at a good price, if you don't need the latest and greatest 800 to ride trails, and fuel costs are way down from what they were. It seems there are always too many sleds on the trail when it snows. I don't think there's any doubt the grooming keeps getting better too.
Very true and it's because it's crazy expensive.
We see so few families, and even few females, out when we go riding. We stop in somewhere to eat and people are surprised when we come in with our kids. But a meal out will set us back $50, four sleds will eat up $150 gas in a average weekend at the cabin. Not to mention the cost of sleds/insurance/registration/trailers/etc... But its something we've been doing for yrs so we keep figuring out how to do it (lunches on the trail, shorter rides, not paying for trail passes in other states, etc...)
Its too bad its getting so expensive and keeping families out of it. Some of my best memories as a kid are snowmobiling with my parents and their friends and kids. I want my kids to have that same experience. While I have hope I have no expectation that they'll keep doing it after they've flown the coop whether its because they move far away, have no interest, can't afford it, etc... But I'll probably always keep one extra sled around and we'll always have the pictures and memories.
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harski
Member
I agree with all the above and will repeat some of the comments. My buds bailed in the early 2000's as new sled costs soared. None of us wrench so added labor costs didn't help either. The method of "old school" labor for financial and personal survival is slowly drifting away due to the ever changing technology on these machines. Sad to say in the least......
If families cannot afford to purchase reliable sleds and pay necessary permit fees, insurance, repairs, etc etc..... I'm not sure how the sport will survive. The sport needs the younger generation to continue......
Harski
If families cannot afford to purchase reliable sleds and pay necessary permit fees, insurance, repairs, etc etc..... I'm not sure how the sport will survive. The sport needs the younger generation to continue......
Harski
G
G
Guest
I am in complete agreement that it isn't a family sport and has not been for many years. Another reason for this is that winter time sports activities are way different than they were 30 years ago. There is so much time sunk into all the games and practices that never used to be so intensive. There are Christmas jambories and the sports last all year with summer camps and everything else. The coaches discourage activities like sledding so their 'athletes' dont get hurt. All the travel involved with sports also eats up money so there is nothing left over for much else. Don't get me wrong I am not against sports but it is a factor in the decline of sledding and other motorized toy use.
Lots of truth to cost, sports obligation, etc... I am on the beginning stage of family riding. My oldest son is just old enough to ride his own sled this year and really excited to ride! I cannot afford to purchase a sled just for him but I am lucky enough to have several friends who have older machines I can borrow. So we are doing a dad/son trip this year to our cabin in Hayward during Christmas break and i gotta say.. im more excited for this trip than any of my others trips! i am hoping this is one of many trips to come.