Jobs are in the hole because CEOs won't hire & are hording profits look at Apple perfect example. Apple will only be able to hord money until stock holders "say what the heck? "Expand, Aquire or give back to stockholders via Dividends you are not maxing our investment". Apple is a tech growth stock not a high Yield stock. When CEOs are finally faced with use it or lose it by stock holder pressures you will see hiring & capital equipment buys because they won't lose it believe me without using it because success is on their heads. Apple also can split stock make it more affordable attract a different type of investor. This is just 1 example lots of Corps hording money lots more out there & when they let it loose look out good times ahead. Get in the game make picks lots of good ones out there. Don't let a market Pause spook you to gloom & doom. If Corps did not have tons of reserve money then yes worry but that is just not the case now or year end.
Economic uncertainty? (Is there really such a term??)
- Thread starter anonomoose
- Start date
xsledder
Active member
What? and
Seriously, what??? (What we have here is a run-on sentence)
Please reword you post because I didn't understand any of it.snow_monkey
New member
I will follow whitedust on this one. In michigan the job outlook is bleak and will take years to correct. There is a company in Illinois that is having problems filling 40 high paid skilled positions. This is where the real-estate problem in Michigan kicks in. The person wants and is qualified for the job. The sale of their home is impossible because of the market conditions so that they are stuck in their homes. I have done well shifting and paying atttention to my investments. Part of my success was staying in my crappy old house. Extension of benefits in Michigan will only make things worse and prolong the agony. The jobs are not coming back. One of my best friends is going through this as we speak. He has sold his home at a loss and is on his way to another state. I would never want to be in this position but there are a large number of people that are exploiting unemployment and are not looking for jobs.
What, me post? (I thought that quote was "What, me worry?"
<wicked grin=""> <wicked grin="">) Turned the tables on ya, eh? </wicked></wicked>
Apple won't buy capital equipment, their products are made in China.
Giving dividends to shareholders does not create jobs, it re-distributes wealth. Get your dividend and buy more stuff. Where's the stuff made? Not here! No jobs created that way.
Acquiring another company does not create jobs, it creates wealth. Actually, it often loses jobs.
I think you and I are talking about 2 different things, WD. I am not disagreeing with what you are saying, but making money in the stock market does not certify that the economy is fixed.
Making money in the stock market is not the same as making Chevys in Janesville. Selling Chinese electronics at Best Buy is not the same as making cardboard in Ontonagon.
The purpose of supply side economics is to lower the cost of capital so business will invest in itself and grow domestic employment. When that investment is overseas, or when that investment is in the financial sector (like mortgage lending to high risk customers 'cause the money's cheap) then the reduced tax rate does not grow domestic employment, you do not employ the new workers to pay taxes, and the debt, as a percent of GDP continues to grow as you bail out failing companies and try to stimulate the economy.
Again, WD, not arguing or disagreeing with you. But all this cheap capital was supposed to create shareholder value AND jobs. It is/has not done that. Shareholder value, yes. Jobs, no.
xsledder
Active member
What, me post? (I thought that quote was "What, me worry?"
</WICKED></WICKED>
Noooo, that's why I'm an engineer. I never had a mastery of the English language.
"6 mouths ego I couldn't eve spel inganeer, now I are one." dcsnomo I am talking proactive wealth protection because I'm retired & that in itself is my 1 & only job. I look at investments on a world wide bases not just made in USA. 9-10% USA unemployment will be here for awhile & few jobs were created with stimulous.....agreed. We have to find opportunities to find employment don't be too picky a job is a job until you can find a better job. Manufacturing has been going offshore for many years just the way it is to max corp. profit. USA is not the locomotive we are the caboose of emerging markets & I accept that & invest accordingly. I work with the way things are & understand what is happening & there is easy money in the stock market with the correct picks. Turn USA housing around & jobs will follow by a consumer driven buying spree due to huge pent up demand for everything. Currently our skilled talent is trapped by the housing market & can't pick up & go where things are better. I just don't care where products are made anymore since out of my control & thinking on a global bases.
anonomoose
New member
You forget that one of the economic problems is that if folks don't go spend money, none of this will work in the long run. Even if you do get a job, you are so deep in the hole it will take years to get back to even. How does that improve the economy? Paying down debt never improves anything but the banker's bottom line.
You may be in the hole due to loss in house values as that decreased everyones wealth. Live within your means & debt will decrease. All points in this thread are known facts no doubt about that but I know where we have been & I'm more concerned where we are going in the future. Sure production has gone off shore since the 70s not really a new concept. Sales, Marketing, Engineering ,Corp Management still takes place in USA. Look for opportunities that are here saying darn that production left will get you no where because that will not change & out of your control. The economy is turning around just slower than we all want. Q4 will be better.
snow_monkey
New member
China is in trouble now. The workers want a higher standard of living. Corporations as we speak are moving their facilities to rural areas so that they can exploit the remaining poor. Many economists say that this is the true end of cheap labor in China. Buy American!!!!
Ok, I have a question. If we have deflation, our dollar is worth less, (or worthless, depending how bad) so goods are cheaper. Wouldn't that bring some manufacturing back here, as multinationals with high reserves could make a killing on capital investments, and land for factories? Also, if pay scales are reduced along with deflation rates, labor costs will be down. Am I wrong?
On the corps. hoarding cash, I believe they will not spend it until they know what kind of tax rates, regulations, we will face, and they too are waiting for a bottom (deflation?) so they can maximize their investments/purchases.
I think saving will get us out of this eventually. As the prices continue to fall, people who have saved will start scooping up the bargains, and prices will start to rise again.
Am I wrong on any or all of these points?
On the corps. hoarding cash, I believe they will not spend it until they know what kind of tax rates, regulations, we will face, and they too are waiting for a bottom (deflation?) so they can maximize their investments/purchases.
I think saving will get us out of this eventually. As the prices continue to fall, people who have saved will start scooping up the bargains, and prices will start to rise again.
Am I wrong on any or all of these points?
G
G
Guest
Deflation will finish anyone in debt. If you are a homeowner with a mortgage your home value could soon diminish to the point where you are underwater. At some point you will not even be able to make payments on your underwater home because you have lost your job or have taken some kind of a pay cut. Gee, that is kind of what is happening. If you are a small business owner with a loan you are selling less dollars worth of product but you still have the same payment schedule. It could become unsurmountable. Sustained deflation would soon break just about everybody and everything. Sure at some point there might be some bargains to be had but it wouldn't really matter. You might be able to buy Yankee Stadium for 1 million bucks but who cares. Nobody will have any money to spend. What good is any product or service when there are no paying customers? The people that are not in debt which in fact are very few will inherit a used up inoperative wasteland. They will move away to another country.
The whole system was designed to run smoothly with an ever-increasing small rate of inflation. We do not have that now. More than anything the housing bust is responsible for this. And the housing bust was caused by meddling politicians and not the Fed.
Soooo, which one is worse, inflation, or deflation? Which one could the average person make it through?
Yup!
MXZ look at it this way. If I own a business and I sell 100,000 widgets at $10 I have $1Million in sales. I pay fixed expense, variable expense, and hopefully keep some.
Demand falls, prices fall. Now I sell 80,000 widgets at $8 I have $640,000 in sales. As Grub said, if I have debt I am finished, as that money won't cover the fixed expense of the business. I could survive 90,000 widgets at $10, or 110,000 at $90, but reducing price and volume is a killer
"The whole system was designed to run smoothly with an ever-increasing small rate of inflation."
Now I understand our differences in perception, thanks! I own a small business in NE WI, my primary customers are within an 8 hour drive away. My customers are also value conscious. When the Janesville GM plant closes those are my customers. I think regionally 'cause that is how I make my money.
When I sell the business and retire I bet I will be a lot more global!
Right Grub housing deflation is the itch I can't scratch & a huge factor to strong sustained recovery. Housing deflation is the boulder we can't push up the hill & very complex problem. Not much anyone can do that I can think of other than hit bottom let it come back when it can come back. Gov & Fed messing with unquailfied housing loans is what lead to the smoking hole in the ground that we are slowing trying to climb out of. Anybody know how to solve housing?........I sure don't housing looks like an orphan nobody wants to shelter.
Get Gov. out of it. Three of the most heavily regulated and controlled industries, banking (home loans), wall street and the oil industry have had the biggest problems. Gov. screws things up, and I think the Federal Gov. should do nothing, just get the **** out of the way!
Yep Janesville GM is gone. Get into other markets or die. I changed career directions many times & did pretty well. We are creative people......... change with change is the only way.
G
G
Guest
What we have is a deflationary crash. Despite all the efforts of the Fed things are not improving. Yes, the stock market is over 10000. Whitedust has figured out how to make money on the market. Good for him, I wish him well. However, the stock market is not an indicater of main street America. Every resource Bernanke has is basically exhausted. The current administration has chosen to support some 'too big to fail' institutions with taxpayer dollars. Because of this 'investment' and other govt programs we are approaching the max out of our GDP just to pay our debt. They are all just about out of tricks and time. It is a house of cards. We have to go through the pain of a crash before we can heal. A reset if you will. As I said in my original post I believe they will do their best to hold things together until the fall elections. They have tried everything and it is not working. This is not just my opinion. There are many in business waiting and wondering just what to do. Yes, there is money on the sidelines. But it will be used for survival before it gets used for new purchases of equipment or anything else. At least for businesses like mine.