Groomer drag set too deep?

[indy_500]

Thought I’d bring up a discussion point, as I know there are a handful of groomer drivers on this site. Before I begin, I am in NO WAY trying to trash a club, that does so much for the snowmobile community, and puts up with likely the most traffic in the state. Me and the woman just finished up a 170 mi backpack trip, from Antigo, up to Eagle River, and back. Saturday we took a more western approach towards rhinelander and up through Sugar Camp, and came in along 70 from the west side of ER. Today we took the shorter route south along hwy 45. Before I voice my question, I am fully aware the weather the past few days, let alone the past week has NOT been ideal. But, the only reason I’m asking this question, is because it was night and day difference coming into, and leaving the Sno Eagles trails. When we left the sugar camp trails and hopped onto Sno Eagles trails late yesterday afternoon, there was literally no snow and no base whatsoever, everything was sunburnt, and mud. Going along 70, we had to ride 20 feet off the side of the trail to find snow, as was everyone else traveling along there. It’s like they took a snow plow to the trail. I was literally concerned we weren’t going to make it to our hotel, because there was absolutely no snow left on the trail. This morning, after leaving the Sno Eagles trails and when we hopped onto the Three Lakes trails, it was the same situation and the base on the trail doubled if not tripled. What gives? Drag set too deep? Grooming too often? I know they deal with a ton of traffic, but the surrounding clubs held up just fine. Anybody notice the same thing?

 

[ddhanna]

Pretty much every trail groomed every night. We don't get enough snow around here to support that. You can cross into / out of their trails in any direction and notice a huge difference. I get that you gotta log the groomer hours so you max out on funding but they gotta be way over that number. Makes no sense to me and its been that way forever.

 

[goofy600]

I can’t say I’ve ridden in eagle river this year or three lakes, but I will say when grooming the amount of traffic makes a huge impact on the trails. I know in my area which trails go to crap faster then others and it’s all because of traffic and also grooming techniques make a difference. Grooming during the day trails never have a chance to set up, the more the snow gets turned over (by groomer or by sleds) the less it will hold together (sugar snow). I have one of my drivers that did some research on grooming and one thing he said that at 26 degrees out it take 11 hours for a trail to set up, so temps play a big part also. I could go on a lot more of things I’ve learned in the last few years of grooming and also riding a lot of different trails about grooming and how different clubs do it but I’ll stop now.

 

[mspease]

I agree, grooming during the day is a waste, but there are always a few exceptions. goofy600 is correct, grooming too much during the day with high traffic is a disaster. If the drag was set too deep, snow would be coming over the sides of the drag on onto the sides of the trails, which could be part of the problem. I try to not let any snow fall over the sides, that way it is all going out the end of the drag and under the pan. I'm now President of our snowmobile club and go to county meetings. I've heard many times a few counties over there groom as much as they can, even in low snow conditions.

 

[campfire42]

Is that considered trespassing going off trail looking for snow?

 

[goofy600]

Is that considered trespassing going off trail looking for snow?

Guess how far off, if like some and your in the neighbors yard maybe.

 

[skidoo mxz]

I live up this way and the Sugar camp and 3 Lakes clubs are top notch! They groom every night and trails are almost always in great shape when we have good snow. North or South of there (Eagle River and Rhinelander) trails are almost always not as good. I know Eagle River and Rhinelander get a lot of traffic though.

 

[garageguy]

Eagle river was junk a week ago already to much traffic there.

 

[indy_500]

I live up this way and the Sugar camp and 3 Lakes clubs are top notch! They groom every night and trails are almost always in great shape when we have good snow. North or South of there (Eagle River and Rhinelander) trails are almost always not as good. I know Eagle River and Rhinelander get a lot of traffic though.

Lot of rentals in both those areas! I ride bo boen most often, big fan of their work!

 

[jmvette427]

We have been riding Mercer/Hurley area for 30 plus years and it used to be that as soon as you went under the you are leaving White Thunder Club into the Mercer Sno-Goers the trails went to crap. Our group would say that "it must be the snow line starts at White Thunder" Not so, hats off to the Sno-Goers! They have done an outstanding job in the last 4-5 seasons. Changes in leadership, skills or schedule have made a difference. So the club does make a difference.

 

[whitedust]

We have been riding Mercer/Hurley area for 30 plus years and it used to be that as soon as you went under the you are leaving White Thunder Club into the Mercer Sno-Goers the trails went to crap. Our group would say that "it must be the snow line starts at White Thunder" Not so, hats off to the Sno-Goers! They have done an outstanding job in the last 4-5 seasons. Changes in leadership, skills or schedule have made a difference. So the club does make a difference.

Oh yes change in club leadership can go both ways but usually younger guys have something to prove and grooming gets better. As I said usually not always. Retired guys have more free time to give to club where younger guys still have jobs and family responsibilities. Just life can get in the way sometimes of best intentions.

 

[markshop]

that club banner over the trail has always been known to be a lake affect snow line difference.

 

[hermie]

Always seems like Eagle River is some of the roughest trails I ride. There grooming is always lacking a little and I think because there trails get rougher when they groom they put the drag down more. I always no when I have left St.Germain and hit Eagle Rivers trails. I don't think they hit every trail like BoBoen do every day. The trails never get super rough in St.Germain so they don't have to dig in as much to get trails smooth same as Sugar Camp another club who does an amazing job with there trails. My hat off to everyone who is out there grooming and trying to keep trails flat. Many many thank yous. Overall trails have been fantastic in Vilas and Oneida all season and here is to hoping John is correct about the storm.

 

[Skylar]

We always joke as we get near Eagle River, driving, "yep, they got the graders out on the trails again."

 

[indy_500]

Well guys, looks like the conover club was trained to groom the same way ER does. Came onto their trail system from the west on trail 8 from Star Lake/Sayner Barnstormers club. Left their trail system going north towards Lando on 13 into the frosty club trails. It was like a light switch from both directions. Conover club is scraping it right down to the ground leaving nothing but ice. I realize they get a lot of traffic from ER, but man, the same busy trail going north, soon as it switches clubs it’s night and day.

 

[longtrack]

Go back to Fan cooled Sleds and get rid of the liquid cooled Snow melters and save the Snow.

They can cut out the Bumps or leave them and then you would be complaining the Trail is rough.

 

[wiscrev]

Well guys, looks like the conover club was trained to groom the same way ER does. Came onto their trail system from the west on trail 8 from Star Lake/Sayner Barnstormers club. Left their trail system going north towards Lando on 13 into the frosty club trails. It was like a light switch from both directions. Conover club is scraping it right down to the ground leaving nothing but ice. I realize they get a lot of traffic from ER, but man, the same busy trail going north, soon as it switches clubs it’s night and day.

Might be because Lando gets more snow. That's just about the right area where the snow changes. I live on the SW corner of Big St Germain lake. Just across the lake and up the hill about a half mile or so, they have been known to have 30-40" more snow than I have. I figured that was the LES line. That baby powder snow we've been getting doesn't last long. We're back to ice.

 

[racerx]

Might be because Lando gets more snow. That's just about the right area where the snow changes. I live on the SW corner of Big St Germain lake. Just across the lake and up the hill about a half mile or so, they have been known to have 30-40" more snow than I have. I figured that was the LES line. That baby powder snow we've been getting doesn't last long. We're back to ice.

Some truth to that as we have been based out of Lando for almost two decades and there has been times coming thru Conover I would get worried at the snow amounts but then relieved when arriving in Lando. I was out last weekend and can say there was even a difference between west and east Lando and we headed down to Conover I knew when we got closer to K as it was quite a bit different but the more north of K we road some nice Conover trails.