Groomer Tracker

[Deleted member 10829]

When I first heard about this new way to track groomers, I was a bit hesitant and wasn't sure what to think about it. As grooming director of our club, I was looking for a way to inform riders when our trails were groomed by posting a "schedule" on our website. The problem with that is there are so many variables for when groomers can go out; weather and snow conditions, volunteer groomers personal schedules etc. All I could think about is getting complaints like "your website said trail 8 would be groomed Friday night and it wasn't" and so on. So I decided to dig into this and I presented it at our last club meeting and not a single person voted against it. If fact, most said why wouldn't we do it? There is no cost to the club and we can actually earn a bit of money, which really is not what motivated me as I don't see it as a big money maker for our area compared to say the Western UP. The cost to the snowmobiler is $10 per year per area covered by a participating club. Half of that $10 goes to Groomer Tracker for their expenses for the hardware etc., and half goes back to the club. I wanted to talk to a club that has experience with this so they gave me Mike Olsen's phone # from North Country Snowmobile Club out of Ontonagon. He is very satisfied and it has even been a good money maker for them due to the volume of riders that purchased it UP there. He can track where his groomers are, and if they break down or have an issue, he can see exactly where they are and what road is best to get there to assist. Most of the Western UP clubs are part of the program, including Gogebic, Superior, North Country and Keweenaw.

I encourage you to go their website, www.groomertracker.com, and watch the short video, "Watch How It Works". It will show you where groomers are and the trails are color coded to show when the groomer last groomed that trail. You can touch a particular trail and it will tell you when it was last groomed, right down to how many hours and minutes ago. The app also shows sponsors, where they are located, their phone #, website and Facebook pages. I hope you will take the time to check out their website and support this great idea and all of the sponsors.

 

[favoritos]

Thanks for posting.
I have heard about the app, but never really looked into the details. I'm curious to hear which clubs are using the app? I can see real benefit if all clubs are on board. We often plan our daily rides in the morning just before leaving. It is a guessing game at times.
Another benefit that I see is having the trail map. I use paper, IOS, and GPS maps. The online maps are incorporated into the gauge I'm using. I also have a handheld GPS.
I do have a question about pricing if anyone knows the details? Is the price per season only for one club and device? The wording states that we need to purchase data for the club we want access to. I'm not sure if the package also includes the other trails and data if we purchase for one club. I'm assuming we would only get groomer data for paid club access.
I can obviously find this out by calling. Hoping to help some other riders answer a few questions.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

Good question favoritos. I went to their website and have copied and pasted the below. It sounds like you can see the trails of participating clubs, but only get the groomer info once you have paid the fee. If you wanted all 4 clubs in the Western UP, it would cost you $40 per year, but keep in mind, $20 of that $40 goes to the clubs.

Riders:
The app is free to download. As a free user you will be able to see the trails in participating club areas as well as sponsors near those clubs.
If you want to see where the groomers are or have been, you will need to purchase the data for each club that you want access to.
The data for each club is $10 for the season.
(50% of the profit from each purchase is split with the club to help their grooming operation)

 

[whitedust]

Mark you should look into GTS Trails. It’s free and I use it all the time in the WI Northwoods and tells me by color code what I need to know regarding groom timing. Imo the app your talking about is $10 per club maybe real time idk but free is free just so you know what’s available. Any groomer app really doesn’t tell you how the groom set or what the trail quality is like so don’t over expect for good conditions for any app. Jmo and 2 cents.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

Yep, this is real time whitedust, did you check out their video on how it works? We will be installing tracking systems in our groomers, not calling in reports. It even shows you where groomers are at if they are out, which can be a safety thing as well. I'd rather help out the clubs than worry about it being free. I'm not sure how GTS Trails gets their info, they may have to rely on someone letting them know, where this is tracked live. I just went to GTS Trails website and it tells you very little. It also looks like it is only available in Wisconsin at this point, doesn't help in the UP. I've never been contacted by them so not sure how they would ever update our trails.

 

[POLARISDAN]

mark..no way to say this sensitively..but this app is bad for trail systems..leave the money out..

now every idiot can go beat a fresh trail and within 1 hour its done..i hate it..i heard about and was flaming pissed last year..its a groomers nitemare(the groomer to groomer thing is different)..aholes will be following em and destroying their good work..

we know grooming patterns by spending the money to be there..riding the different times day and night..and know when they go...now every ahole will just show UP and kill it..

I HATE IT

 

[ddhanna]

As I understand it. GTS is used in WI as an extension of the SNARS trail billing system, removing the need for much of the paper. As a side benefit, the GTS App can provide you with a 6 hour delayed view of groomer traffic for those clubs that are using it. It is not mandatory to use but I guess it will be soon. We are not using it yet in Three Lakes. It's about $200 per groomer and not separately funded by the WI program, so its on the clubs dime...

 

[Deleted member 10829]

I was waiting for someone to respond like that Dan, just didn't think it would be you. Maybe I did. I've had people say, "well people will just follow the groomer" and I have to laugh. I groom at 9-10mph in most cases, I don't know anyone that will follow a groomer around at that speed, especially you at 100 mph. LOL But the bigger point is, how often do you see a groomer out in daylight hours? It's a waste of time and money. We groom after dark for safety, but mostly because traffic is way down after dark and trails can set up overnight. By the time I do my second pass heading back to the groomer shed, it's getting close to midnight and the trail has all night to set up with no traffic. You know that as you ride mostly at night and rarely see other sleds out after midnight. A well groomed trail that has had the chance to set up overnight will hold together well the next day. Any grooming done during the day with high traffic will not hold up for even 20-30 sleds, so it's a complete waste!

 

[whitedust]

I believe Vilas voted for all clubs to use the GPS system 2 years ago and I believe GTS gets their information thru that system. Idk what the UP does but usually trails are pretty good during the week. Either app is good and will become more and more popular.

 

[scoot]

No doubt, the internet has changed the sport. As an ex groomer of over thirty years, I cringe every time someone sounds the alarm on here that we have ridable snow. We see trailers parked everywhere, people dropping to ride, and we're usually down to dirt before lunch. Never mind that the perfect ribbon I laid at three AM got destroyed before I even had time to get home, suit up, and take the family out for an early morning breakfast ride.
I cant help but think that with these handy dandy groomer apps, the only trails that will get ridden, will be the freshly groomed ones.

 

[2TrakR]

I cant help but think that with these handy dandy groomer apps, the only trails that will get ridden, will be the freshly groomed ones.

That's presuming there is wide-spread adoption of that type of app. I've seen quite a few of the "here's what's been groomed" apps and systems over the years since smartphones were a thing. They all have great concepts, a legitimate need/desire and each has their own solution to the issues. For example this one is generating revenue to pay for the system and encourage clubs with revenue by charging customers for that grooming data.
Others have tried to do it for free. Some have given the tracking equipment away. Lots of variables.

As others have stated, doesn't take much to negate the effects of grooming. For wide-spread adoption and "success", you'd need to have consistent positive results for the customer, such as knowing of and enjoying well groomed trails more often than hitting them after they are beat.

To be honest, the more success, the less likely well-groomed trails will be encountered.

 

[G]

In the Mich UP on any given weekend in the winter it is hard to keep the trails perfect just because of the intense traffic. I doubt if groomer apps will help or hurt the situation. Just too much traffic. In Wisc where I spend most of my time there is generally less traffic. We usually don't have too much trouble figuring out what is groomed and what isn't. And sometimes it does not matter as there is only one way to get somewhere and you are going to ride that section whether it is freshly groomed or not.

 

[durphee]

I don’t think the app itself is necessarily bad. Gives a descent idea of what trails have been groomed recently and which haven’t, especially in bigger sledding areas of Wisconsin, like Minocqua, Eagle River, Hayward, etc... where there can be 5 different ways (and I am looking at the trail map between Minocqua to Sayner/Boulder/Manitowish right now) to get from one place to another. I am not referring to places that Grub was referring with one trail between 2 spots.
I see it like this. During the week when traffic tends to be less a group can look up which trails have been groomed in the AM and allowed to setup overnight. Obviously not all trails are groomed every night so it allows riders to maximize their riding. On weekends and holidays it would benefit those who get up early and hit those trails. This will offer less benefit for late afternoon and early evening riders but hey, your riding on the weekend and holidays what do you expect. Early night riders might actually do more damage by not allowing the trail to setup, as this can take anywhere from 2-6 hours. There’s a big difference between a groomed trail and a setup trail.

 

[frnash]

1.

… In Wisc where I spend most of my time there is generally less traffic. We usually don't have too much trouble figuring out what is groomed and what isn't. …

Just my observation from reading trail reports on this forum for many years, but never mind "what's groomed and what isn't", it may be challenging enough just to figure out which trails are open in Wisconsin, what with the fact that every 10 square mile section seems to set their own rules as well as opening and closing their trails, with no apparent county or statewide plan or coordination other than utter chaos.

(But what do I know, I ain't no sled jockey, not in Wisconsin or anywhere else. )

---

2.

…I don’t think the app itself is necessarily bad. Gives a descent [sic] idea of what trails have been groomed recently and which haven’t …

A descent idea on the downhill stretches, with an ascent idea on the uphill stretches?

 

[favoritos]

I honestly didn't expect the type of response I've seen here.
I would have never thought in the direction of people chasing a fresh groom. I don't like to ride them. I prefer a good setup snow.
It is tough at times to know if the trail has been touched in the last few days, or at all. The trails that have not been touched can be the deal breakers. It is amazing how bad they can get with traffic through unfrozen holes, bare boulders, and miles after mile of leg burners. I usually try to get a good idea by reading trail reports. I enjoy reading the reports. They help a lot. I can see the benefit in using the tracker to verify some trail sections. Sometimes the reports can be a little generous to how much of a trail section was done.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

durphee,

That's how I look at it also. I used to always lead our group, but lately I've let some of the younger riders take over. They still rely on me to plan the days route, and of course, they want smooth trails. I think this tool will help with that greatly! We base out of Gogebic, and there are several routes you can take, so knowing what has been groomed and when will be a huge help and save time searching for the groomed trails in the morning! We try to be off the trails after 5PM as most busy trails are pretty beat up by 3PM or earlier. We then enjoy some food and beverages and I insist we are on the trails no later than 8AM. If it were up to me, it would be 7AM. Heck, we need to make the most of it while we can, the season is short. Many people travel a long way to ride UP there and they get one trip a year. If this can help them enjoy the experience more, they are more likely to come back and spend money with the local businesses and let friends and family know also. It's a win, win.

favoritos,

Not the responses I expected either! I prefer to see the glass half full. Negativity is just part of almost every thread the past few years.


Those that think this is a good idea need to push their local clubs to get signed up (it will cost them nothing) as there aren't many in Wisconsin at this point.

 

[Hoosier]

mark..no way to say this sensitively..but this app is bad for trail systems..leave the money out..

now every idiot can go beat a fresh trail and within 1 hour its done..i hate it..i heard about and was flaming pissed last year..its a groomers nitemare(the groomer to groomer thing is different)..aholes will be following em and destroying their good work..

we know grooming patterns by spending the money to be there..riding the different times day and night..and know when they go...now every ahole will just show UP and kill it..

I HATE IT

Agree. Plus I’m not sure every groomer wants any random slender to know where he is out grooming at any time either.

 

[POLARISDAN]

I was waiting for someone to respond like that Dan, just didn't think it would be you. Maybe I did. I've had people say, "well people will just follow the groomer" and I have to laugh. I groom at 9-10mph in most cases, I don't know anyone that will follow a groomer around at that speed, especially you at 100 mph. LOL But the bigger point is, how often do you see a groomer out in daylight hours? It's a waste of time and money. We groom after dark for safety, but mostly because traffic is way down after dark and trails can set up overnight. By the time I do my second pass heading back to the groomer shed, it's getting close to midnight and the trail has all night to set up with no traffic. You know that as you ride mostly at night and rarely see other sleds out after midnight. A well groomed trail that has had the chance to set up overnight will hold together well the next day. Any grooming done during the day with high traffic will not hold up for even 20-30 sleds, so it's a complete waste!

no mark..its not following the groomers..its knowing which trails were groomed the night before..if ebody knows which are and arent, then they piss pound them in the morning..

let me xplain..

i generally know exactly what time 3 is groomed.. i also know 12 is every 3 days..i also know the approx time sidnaw is done..but its just guesswork and my experience..

if its not..then ebody knows and its a show..

it just a terrible idea..nobody should know where they are and when they go unless they figure it out themselves

bad bad idea

 

[POLARISDAN]

No doubt, the internet has changed the sport. As an ex groomer of over thirty years, I cringe every time someone sounds the alarm on here that we have ridable snow. We see trailers parked everywhere, people dropping to ride, and we're usually down to dirt before lunch. Never mind that the perfect ribbon I laid at three AM got destroyed before I even had time to get home, suit up, and take the family out for an early morning breakfast ride.
I cant help but think that with these handy dandy groomer apps, the only trails that will get ridden, will be the freshly groomed ones.

yup..heard

 

[ezra]

we talked about it in our club a few times .I am not on board with using a tracker in the tickets.
want to know what has been groomed join a club and get involved in it . I want to know what has been hit I call the trail captain to find out who was out grooming last night . same with surrounding club's I call the captains and ask .
we run a all volunteer deal so not all grooming can be done at night can get done when guys have time to do it . I could give 2 craps less if some guy with zero skin in the game can't find a fresh ribbon