gutter downspouts

[scott_l]

Ok guys I have a real off the topic one

Our house got hit by a hail storm a month ago and one of the things that needs to be replaced is our gutters. I am having new seamless gutters/downspouts installed and I was planning to burry the downspout portion that goes from the house out into the yard using the black corrugated drain style pipe that does not have any holes in it and then install a pop up valve out in the yard about 10ish feet from the house. The pop up valve is basically a white PVC 90 pipe fitting with a green cover that when the valve/fitting fills with water the cover floats up and water disperses into the yard, there is a small 1/4" hole in the bottom of the pop up valve for drainage. They sell the fitting to go from traditional size downspouts to the black pipe to the pop up valve yada yada. I was thinking to use this system as I don't want to have the traditional aluminum downspouts running from the house to the yard as I don't want the kids to step on them and I don't want to move them every time I cut the grass.

Has any one used this system or similar?

my concern is in the winter, what happens when this valve/pipe fill up with water and freeze?

any and all thought appreciated

thanks

 

[chunk06]

I always try to talk people out burring downspouts because of the freeze/ thaw cycles, and using the corrugated drain tile will make them freeze faster. If you live in a area with the right soil, a good pitch away from your house and a basement that does not leak with a tile system and you love the idea you might get away with it.

 

[frnash]

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… my concern is in the winter, what happens when this valve/pipe fill up with water and freeze?
any and all thought appreciated …

Any and all? Okay, here's a completely "off the wall" (pun intended!) thought, too late for your situation, but FWIW:

What's the purpose of "gutters & downspouts" anyway?
To prevent rainwater spilling off the edge of the roof like a waterfall to pool directly below, guiding it away instead?

What problems are there with traditional "gutters & downspouts"?
They tend to become clogged with leaves and other debris, needing frequent cleaning.
(Some designs include a screen overlay to divert such debris, allowing the rainwater though.)

My parents had an interesting alternative to traditional "gutters & downspouts" on their retirement home in Chassell, MI.
I thought it was purty clever.
I have searched high and low today for a similar product/concept to no avail, but it was something like this:

As best as I can describe this it was an eave-mounted, fixed, permanent, non-retractable, slatted wooden "awning" like structure that diverted the rainwater in a cascade down and across the slats like a staircase, distributing the rainwater well out from the house onto the lawn rather than allowing it to pool right below the eaves.

The view from the front window was essentially "edge-on", through the gaps between the slats, thus with a minimum visual obstruction. No debris clogged or frozen gutters or downspouts. Some winter snow accumulation on the slats caused no problem (other than limiting the view between the slats).
A permanent, year 'round application, virtually maintenance free, except for an occasional paint job on the slats.
Cross section roughly like so (with much narrower gaps than I can show here between the slats):
—
–—
––—
–––—

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(Has anyone here seen such a technique in use? Surely this wasn't a one-off?)

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P.S.:

…I was planning to burry [sic] the downspout portion …

I always try to talk people out burring [sic] downspouts …

What's this about "burring" downspouts, like with coarse grit sandpaper?

 

[chords]

Something like this ? Rainhandler its called

 

[JasonF]

Ok guys I have a real off the topic one

Our house got hit by a hail storm a month ago and one of the things that needs to be replaced is our gutters. I am having new seamless gutters/downspouts installed and I was planning to burry the downspout portion that goes from the house out into the yard using the black corrugated drain style pipe that does not have any holes in it and then install a pop up valve out in the yard about 10ish feet from the house. The pop up valve is basically a white PVC 90 pipe fitting with a green cover that when the valve/fitting fills with water the cover floats up and water disperses into the yard, there is a small 1/4" hole in the bottom of the pop up valve for drainage. They sell the fitting to go from traditional size downspouts to the black pipe to the pop up valve yada yada. I was thinking to use this system as I don't want to have the traditional aluminum downspouts running from the house to the yard as I don't want the kids to step on them and I don't want to move them every time I cut the grass.

Has any one used this system or similar?

my concern is in the winter, what happens when this valve/pipe fill up with water and freeze?

any and all thought appreciated

thanks

I have almost this exact set-up on my house and it works without any issues since it was built in 05. The only difference is that at the spots were water flows up into the yard I don't have anything that pops up, mine us just a 4-5" round green grate that the water flows up through. I have 4 of them in different spots of the yard and actually I have to hunt for them cause they blend in so well. I have seen no issue with freezing though and I would suspect that the in ground fittings are not water tight so the remaining water probably drains in the soil before freezing. For maintenance, I do have gutter guards but I still once a year pull off the green yard grates and typically get a handful of debris.

Also the grass in these sections of lawn is always green, green, green!

 

[gary_in_neenah]

Scott,
Here's my 2 cents and I can't take all the credit either. The previous owner of our house incorporated the discharge tubes into the landscaping. They're pretty much covered with plants and shrubs during the summer months and most importantly it's not where I have to mow. The landscaping gets a good drink when it rains and I don't have to mow around them.

Not to rain on your parade but the pop-up valves are most likely going to freeze shut and be a problem. They use similar stuff on golf courses and those are either drained or filled with antifreeze during the winter months.

Lastly, the Rainhandler is a fine idea but you're only going to gain a few inches away from the foundation wall. In most cases you need feet and not inches to keep the water from finding your basement.

Good luck with your project, hope you find a solution that fits your needs.

Gary

 

[frnash]

Something like this ? Rainhandler its called …

Thanks, chords, that is exactly the concept! (Now why didn't I find that?)
But the application at my parents' place was different in the following ways:

1. The slats were made of wood (≈ ¼" thick?).
2. The slats were much wider (≈ 4"+?).
3. The gap between the slats was (≈ ½"?)
4. The full extension beyond the roof was much greater (≈ 2 ft+?).

Maybe a one-off build by whomever built the house?

 

[whitedust]

Simple flip ups work great for me for mowing and gets water away form house but I have a good slope to the lake.

 

[scott_l]

I have almost this exact set-up on my house and it works without any issues since it was built in 05. The only difference is that at the spots were water flows up into the yard I don't have anything that pops up, mine us just a 4-5" round green grate that the water flows up through. I have 4 of them in different spots of the yard and actually I have to hunt for them cause they blend in so well. I have seen no issue with freezing though and I would suspect that the in ground fittings are not water tight so the remaining water probably drains in the soil before freezing. For maintenance, I do have gutter guards but I still once a year pull off the green yard grates and typically get a handful of debris.

Also the grass in these sections of lawn is always green, green, green!

Thanks for all the info so far guys

Good to hear someone else has a similiar set up, I saw the green grate that you have and could very easily go that way.

Who would have ever thought that the guy that lives in the middle of a desert would chime in on rain water control, I do like the concept but as someone else mentioned that concept would turn my water fall off the roof into a rain shower and I need to get the water away from the house as it shows that the previous owner has had problems. We did new landscaping and grading last year.

I like the flip up idea but I would be the one to forget to put them down and I am thinking to extend the downspout 10ish feet away from the house

Thanks again for the thoughts and info

 

[brad460]

I buried all my downspouts..been a couple years and zero issues whatsoever!

Run the 4" pvc out 10 or so feet from the house with a half bubble pitch. At the end of the pipe dig a deep hole and fill with gravel (not pea gravel, but something like 1/2" or so). Put a T at the end of the pipe..this way most of the water will be absorbed into the hole..if it's raining really hard water can also come up onto the lawn..

I just have a green drain cover at ground lever....no pop-up device.

 

[garyl62]

I have exactly what you described at my house, and we've installed the same set-up at several of our smaller residential buildings at work. One big difference though is we always use slotted drain tile. This allows the water that will sit in the pipe along the way to disburse out of the pipe eliminating the freeze issue you were concerned about. Many time we use drain tile with a "sock" over it and directly bury it, other times we use tile without the sock, but then bury it with pea gravel around it, typical French drain. The sock is easier and prevents dirt from infiltrating the slots and slowly filling the pipe. I've run them short distances, off to a side, and also ran them over 50' and gone under sidewalks to get water to a better draining location.

 

[frnash]

… Who would have ever thought that the guy that lives in the middle of a desert would chime in on rain water control …

Let me tell you about that:

As crazy as it seems, "I never had so damn much trouble with water until I moved to the desert!"

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A recent local news headline: "Monsoon madness! Powerful storms pound the Valley"
(But only a few drops in my neighborhood! — This time!)

Unlike "frontal" weather in your neck of the woods, where a mass of stormy weather moves across a wide area, during Arizona's monsoon season it all starts when you can look to the east from my front door in the late morning/early afternoon to see a series of towering cumulus clouds, like chessmen, marching from Mexico northward along the mountains in the distance east of Phoenix, then (typically in the late afternoon or early evening) the outflow from the dissipating mountain storms sinks down into the central valley, picking up more energy and developing into a collection of separate new storm cells, randomly scattered all over the place, with some neighborhoods getting a beating while others get only a few sprinkles. I've even seen it raining on one side of the street, with just a few stray sprinkles on the other side of the street! It's unique.

And sometimes it's like this:


An actual photo [Photo title: Microburst over Phoenix, Credit: Chopperguy Photographer Jerry Ferguson and Pilot Andrew Park.]

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From a local forum, in an early June discussion of the coming monsoon season, where several Arizona "newbies" were questioning, and laughing at the need for "sandbags in the desert". (Ha, Ha!):

By FRNash (quote):

"Sandbags? In the desert? in the Phoenix metro area? What? They're kidding, right?
"Wrong!

"If you're a newbie, let me tell you that we have seen THREE "100-year floods" in and around Phoenix in the ≈ 50 years I've been here.

"On one occasion (January, 1993?) I was heading home from work, driving eastbound on Glendale Avenue, and found the street closed due to flooding as I approached 7th Avenue, so I headed south on 7th Avenue only to find the street awash, well over the curbs, as I approachied Camelback Road. Not only that, but I had to navigate among a number of -- 15 foot geysers(!) -- where manhole covers had been blown away. Somehow I managed to make it to Camelback (although it was also awash) then eastbound and to home, to find the house awash as well -- just enough to soak the carpeting.

"On another occasion a heavy rain event caused a breach in an irrigation canal somewhere to the north, leading to plenty of streets awash in the neighborhood, with some houses likewise. And there was one more similar occasion as well.

[Stupid flood irrigation, in the city! ]

"The good news: Since that time the Phoenix storm sewers were completely redone, and the flood control structures were added along that irrigation canal.

"Need more of a history lesson? See: http://www.floodsafety.noaa.gov/states/az-flood.shtml
"Scroll down and click on these (and others):
• 1970 Labor Day Floods
• Tropical Storm Octave, October 1-3, 1983
• Winter Floods of January 6-9, 1993

(So you think we don't get hurricanes in the desert?)"

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So what about "gutters & downspouts" for me, or the "Dutch drain" I'd love to install across my driveway to keep floodwaters out of the garage?
Where to put the water? With the streets awash, and the water licking at the front door, I'd need a catchment basin the size of an Olympic swimming pool. Fuggedaboudit!

 

[whitedust]

Thanks for all the info so far guys

Good to hear someone else has a similiar set up, I saw the green grate that you have and could very easily go that way.

Who would have ever thought that the guy that lives in the middle of a desert would chime in on rain water control, I do like the concept but as someone else mentioned that concept would turn my water fall off the roof into a rain shower and I need to get the water away from the house as it shows that the previous owner has had problems. We did new landscaping and grading last year.

I like the flip up idea but I would be the one to forget to put them down and I am thinking to extend the downspout 10ish feet away from the house

Thanks again for the thoughts and info

No problem flip ups go down automatically when water flow hits them never had a problem simple solutions are best imo.

 

[slimcake]

Got a linky to these here "flipups? Got 3 lines I am gonna bury.

 

[chunk06]

Got a linky to these here "flipups? Got 3 lines I am gonna bury.

Flip up is just notching the downspout extension and using two screws as the pivot. most installers do it as a standard install around here.

 

[POLARISDAN]

dam..im a stormer..and i had no idea i should be advertising here..anybody else need a roof? geezus

no underground holding tanks..when it thaws and freezes it could be a problem..a free flow under and out should be fine

 

[whitedust]

Flip up is just notching the downspout extension and using two screws as the pivot. most installers do it as a standard install around here.

Yep flip ups can be any length you want and installer either knows how to do it or not. I luv mine easy to mow and takes water away from house. I have wood terracing at the downspout exit so use the flip ups to extend about 6 feet out from terrace. I stake the end with markers in winter so I don't hit them with my snowmobile as my lake trail goes by them on east side. I would not go underground around here too cold to be of value and I like KISS method.

 

[favoritos]

I put in a very extensive system for combined drainage of the downspouts, surface drains from patio areas, and a parallel French drain system. I run all the surface water in PVC piping until the point of a downward slope in the yard. The downward slope is steeply draining away from the house at that point. I also tied in the perforated tile from the French drain at the steep downward slope point. The 4" PVC exit point runs at full capacity during heavy rains. I have run the pop up emitters and flap valves on the exit point over the years. Heavy rains have blown off the pop ups until I glued them to the pipe elbow. I did have issues with debris making it into the drain system even with gutter screens. This did cause slowing or plugging the flow after I glued the emitter to the elbow. I also had issues with ice sitting in the elbow below the pop up when we did not have a heavy insulating snow cover. I did try drilling holes in the elbow and putting drainage rock under that assembly. I just have too much water running through my system during the winter thaw and refreezing cycles.

I have gone to a "drain to daylight" exit point, without the elbow, because of the debris and ice. It will still freeze at times right where the pipe exits the ground, unless I put about two cups of salt in the system right when the snow starts to melt off the roof. I have that process down to a science. It works great without much salt. The sump pump and garage drains are also tied to the downward slope junction point. I can avoid adding salt when we have sloppy roads. The slop melting off the vehicles carries enough salt to keep the system from freezing.

 

[scott_l]

Interesting info favorites

Question for you regarding your salt situation, have you ever experienced dead grass in the spring because of the salt?

 

[bearmeister]

I've done it to 5 downspouts on my house in Minnesota (mpls) and have not had a problem at all in 8 years. One thing that I did do is drill some holes in the white pvc section of the pop up to promote draining (and yes, pitch is important). You can always toss a little sidewalk salt in if it starts to freeze and backup. Or the ultimate (if you have x-tra $), run some heat tape down each one and plug in if/when you see it freezing up.