Heard a rumor from a pretty good source.

[snocrazy]

I heard that there was some sort of meeting involving the DNR, some snowmobile association, and a bunch of local snowmobilers. They were meeting about the trail conditions and the number of complaints this year. Seems there is going to be some change on the way. A little to late for this season but next year should be better.

Any one on here hear about this or actually attend this meeting?

 

[Deleted member 10829]

Unless they can control the weather, and spread snow to other places, they are wasting their time. Trail conditions are a direct result of the weather, period. They do a great job of grooming UP there, but you can't do miracles with the winter we have had, or should I say haven't had. When you have lower than normal snow, no snow anywhere else, which results in way too much traffic, warm ups every other day etc., you will have complaints. In a "normal" year, this would not even come up. What a waste of time and I hope this is just that, a rumor! Anyone that would take the time to complian to the DNR or MSA about trail conditions this year should just stay home as they don't have the first idea what it takes to have good trails.

 

[700classic]

X2, mspease

 

[no1_pro]

I agree with mspease....

 

[buddah2]

Unless they can control the weather, and spread snow to other places, they are wasting their time.

That's only partially true. The Munising trails have been especially horribly maintained for several years now. The other clubs in this area have been able to keep their trails up to decent shape but the guy with the contract for Munising area is in it as a for-profit business. And this past summer he sold out to his son and another guy who are doing an even worse job as if it was possible.

As to the supposed meeting, a group I ride with ran into this group of representatives at Boot Lake Bar. They were out riding the trails to see just how bad our local situation was. People involved were from MSA (MI Snowmobile Assoc.), MI DNR, and MI DEQ (Dept. of Environmental Quality......the organization that DNR falls under). My group was told that they have NEVER received more complaints than this year and that's with the snow conditions factored in. So please know the local situation prior to jumping to their defense.

 

[Polarice]

That's only partially true. The Munising trails have been especially horribly maintained for several years now. The other clubs in this area have been able to keep their trails up to decent shape but the guy with the contract for Munising area is in it as a for-profit business. And this past summer he sold out to his son and another guy who are doing an even worse job as if it was possible.

As to the supposed meeting, a group I ride with ran into this group of representatives at Boot Lake Bar. They were out riding the trails to see just how bad our local situation was. People involved were from MSA (MI Snowmobile Assoc.), MI DNR, and MI DEQ (Dept. of Environmental Quality......the organization that DNR falls under). My group was told that they have NEVER received more complaints than this year and that's with the snow conditions factored in. So please know the local situation prior to jumping to their defense.

Agreed. If you don't ride Alger country trails you have no clue. There's no excuse for the crap job they did this year.

I got behind a groomer on trail 8 that wouldn't let me pass. Fine, I'll just follow. Only to see that he's going 15mph! The jerk still wouldn't even slow down and move so I could pass...even after he turned to another trail.

Do groomers really need to run that fast?

 

[polarisrider1]

Agreed. If you don't ride Alger country trails you have no clue. There's no excuse for the crap job they did this year.

I got behind a groomer on trail 8 that wouldn't let me pass. Fine, I'll just follow. Only to see that he's going 15mph! The jerk still wouldn't even slow down and move so I could pass...even after he turned to another trail.

Do groomers really need to run that fast?

are you for real on this one? If I have to explain, then I am wasting my thumbs typing. Times 10 for mspease. Cry loud meet a gate on the trail. Like in other states.

 

[buddah2]

Guys, you HAVE to know the local situation before you can defend it. I have more to say on the subject but I have to go to my morning coffee group (aka The Liar's Club). I'll add some more thoughts when I get back......and probably after I snowblow.......

But PLEASE......you DO NOT KNOW the local situation........

 

[lenny]

15 mph grooming is almost impossible. I mean the machines run will go that fast, I think 20 but I would never ever think about trying to groom that way. On average when grooming a long straight and it's somewhat smooth to begin with you can do a good job at 8 or 9 but that's pushing it. With the front blade cutting and stabilizing machine even 8-9 is right about the max for me. On a rough twisty trail about 4mph. A little momentum carries you along when cutting down corners and filling washed out spots. I average about 6 mph over a 8 hr run. Guys running grades will average better but mainly depends on the guy.

I believe the vision of a local club could depend on a individual and therefor be a screwed up mess. I'd like to hear what this is all about.

 

[russholio]

I heard that there was some sort of meeting involving the DNR, some snowmobile association, and a bunch of local snowmobilers. They were meeting about the trail conditions and the number of complaints this year. Seems there is going to be some change on the way. A little to late for this season but next year should be better.

Any one on here hear about this or actually attend this meeting?

Did this meeting and potential change pertain to the trail system in your area, or state-wide?

 

[Deleted member 10829]

I should have been more clear as I've never ridden over in that area, only the Western UP. The original poster was not clear at all either, although now I see he's from that area, but he still could have been talking about anywhere. Rather than complain, get involved and be a part of the solution. I'm assuming you guys whining are very active in your clubs and help groom, right?

I agree with Lenny on the speed. If you are grooming at 15mph, the drag will not do it's thing, it will just skip over the bumps and maybe cut the tops off, but certainly will not fill in the dips.

I whined a little about a certain trail over MLK weekend on this site, but I would never call a club or the DNR!!

 

[Polarice]

15 mph grooming is almost impossible. I mean the machines run will go that fast, I think 20 but I would never ever think about trying to groom that way. On average when grooming a long straight and it's somewhat smooth to begin with you can do a good job at 8 or 9 but that's pushing it. With the front blade cutting and stabilizing machine even 8-9 is right about the max for me. On a rough twisty trail about 4mph. A little momentum carries you along when cutting down corners and filling washed out spots. I average about 6 mph over a 8 hr run. Guys running grades will average better but mainly depends on the guy.

I believe the vision of a local club could depend on a individual and therefor be a screwed up mess. I'd like to hear what this is all about.

I'm not exaggerating at all. They were going 15mph and it was on the haywire grade. I didn't believe it myself until I looked at my speedo, which just had the pickup replaced. Verified by my gps. I knew they groomed fast but I didn't realize how fast. It was during the week, because on the weekends I rarely see a groomer there.

After the groomer runs through, you do not see a flat trail. It is flat on the edges and the center is not. When there is at least a 12" base I don't think a fresh groomed trail should look like that when it's under 30 degrees. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

As mentioned before on this forum; our trails are not groomed by a local club. Alger County contracts it out to a different contractor. They are paid by the hour. The surrounding trails are a lot better maintained because they are clubs. I've only had a cabin there since the fall, so I'm not sure exactly why there isn't a club. I would like to become somewhat involved in there if one created for the times that I do come up.

 

[Polarice]

Guys, you HAVE to know the local situation before you can defend it. I have more to say on the subject but I have to go to my morning coffee group (aka The Liar's Club). I'll add some more thoughts when I get back......and probably after I snowblow.......

But PLEASE......you DO NOT KNOW the local situation........

I need to swing in there one of these days. Midway is 5 minutes away from our cabin on 440.

 

[snocrazy]

Sorry for not being clear that it was specific to this area. There is no more club out of Munising. The grooming is contracted to a for profit company. The guys groming get paid by the mile. Thats why you will get groomers running as fast as they can go.

With there being no snow to the south for the most part all season and there being more traffic up here, you think they would groom more than the alloted 8 hours? Nope.... You ill see them sitting. All those 45$ stickers... No grooming to the South, you would think funds would be directed to where the snow is and groom 24/7 if need be.

I am not much of a trail rider my self any more but I would be willing to volunteer some groomer time. Its not just a bunch of complainers. Its local riders and business owners who are wanting and trying to make a change for the better.

Time to Make the Donuts.

 

[lenny]

sounds like it's time so see a club organize.

 

[classicchick]

I heard that there was some sort of meeting involving the DNR, some snowmobile association, and a bunch of local snowmobilers. They were meeting about the trail conditions and the number of complaints this year. Seems there is going to be some change on the way. A little to late for this season but next year should be better.

Any one on here hear about this or actually attend this meeting?

I just called a good friend who lives in the Munising area for more info as he is also a MSA member. He confirms from a conversation he had with the regional MSA rep
that MSA officials did ride the trails and experienced first hand what the complaints were all about. Our friend said he has been trying for years to draw attention to
the poor quality grooming. Unfortunately there isn't a club there....I tried to talk him into starting one as he is an avid rider. I'm sure he'd be a very active club member if
anyone did start one. It sounds like some positive change will be coming to the Munising area trails! There is also a groomer driver school this weekend in Ishpeming and
it sounds like the private contractor will be sending a couple drivers for learning. Sounds like things will get better. Thanks for the post. My friend was wanted me to share
this info with you all.

 

[buddah2]

.....there is also a groomer driver school this weekend in Ishpeming and it sounds like the private contractor will be sending a couple drivers for learning. Sounds like things will get better. .......

Things will NEVER get better until the situation is changed......I know the guy that ran the business......I have lived here full time for 10 years now......it has been routinely horrible for all those years. I chuckle every time somebody jumps to his defense who does not have a clue as to the local situation:

The local grooming contract is actually through the Munising Visitor's Bureau. It is sub-contracted to the local concrete guy. He got in the business so his equipment operators would not have to go on unemployment during the winter months. Who makes up the Munising Visitor's Bureau you ask? The concrete guy and another of his cronies in the local "power elite". They call all the shots. Can you say conflict of interest?

Additionally, he is (was, since he is now retired and sold out to his son) very adept at knowing when something like this meeting/evaluation is happening and right around those times the groomers have a tendency to run 3 or 4 TIMES the normal frequency. Once the state reps disappear so do the groomers and we're back to the status quo. I totally agree with Lenny. There is no way to adequately groom at the speeds they run sometimes.

The local Alger county club folded long before I ever lived here. While there would be significant interest in forming a new one, at least from the snowmobilers in the area, that will NEVER happen due to the local "power structure". Again, and I say this for further emphasis, DO NOT DEFEND that with which you are totally oblivious!!!! (Not aimed at you specifically but rather a couple of earlier posters).

 

[buddah2]

Cry loud meet a gate on the trail. Like in other states.

You seriously don't have a clue, huh bunky? There is no private land involved in the Munising trail system. It is all federal land and former railroad grades. There are no landowners to appease. "Crying" to the DNR and the state is the only option we have left and usually that is like talking to a concrete wall.

 

[polarisrider1]

You seriously don't have a clue, huh bunky? There is no private land involved in the Munising trail system. It is all federal land and former railroad grades. There are no landowners to appease. "Crying" to the DNR and the state is the only option we have left and usually that is like talking to a concrete wall.

Bunky? Lol. Who said private land? By the way is that burned down bridge finished yet? Makes a nice fence without it. Get a clue. Life MSA member here who actually rides and attends meetings on such issues. (I happen to have the time). Or is this more humor that I missed? If trail 8 goes imagine the mess. It is traveled way more than trail 3.

 

[pfeifest]

Hey... no worries. If there is one thing us snowmobilers know it's that things will get better once the DNR or politician's get involved.

Oh wait.... there is that sarcasm again. I have to work on that.