Info on Traffic Court in MI

[mjkaliszak]

If I may, and I don't want to get personal since you have my hard drive in your possession, how the dam*it the he*l many tickets do you have, Mike?? Inquiring minds want to know!

Don't worry... I have never not returned an album or CD back in the day. It's a " Tunes " thing and kind of hold those items to a higher degree of relevance. All truth be told a couple back in 07 and some years before that ect...
Starting in FEB 2012, I received a DNR ticket for traveling up a road closed in the Cadillac area by none other than Dudley Do Rite a Federal Officer ... I may add. Yes my bad, went up a hill that looked interesting , kind of a sore subject. A warning would have gotten his point across but he was more set on showing the " lowly " state DNR officer how to handle things.
In FEB again I was leaving work and had been stopped at 12:30 AM by Serpico , There is a few undesirable nieghborhoods over by the industrial area I work in, with a young 3rd shift beat cop patroling and shaking down all cars late at night coming & going out of the " hood ". He pulled me over, my hair was standing straight up , hands stained from " MOLD " gas , I stunk like hydralic oil and he stated that he caught me speeding down this strip that he sets up on. I said officer,,,, I didn't know I was speeding, and I looked like I was frazzled from work ( and I was ). He gave me a 2 pointer, and I paid.

NOW for the issue at hand, ONCE AGAIN, I was traveling to my favorite place, ( WORK ), I get all stressed out because that is the kind of place it is... and I was going to drop my rifle off at a gunsmith, was in a hurry and went speeding ( allegedly ) by an officer that was hanging out with his firefighting budds, did not see him or even acknowledge he was there , or that I ( MAY ) have been going a little fast. All I know for sure is that he had a huge adrenaline rush chasing me down the 400 yrds until I turned ( because he could not talk fluently ) it was like he was on steriods or had so much adrenaline pumping thru him that his voice was shaking. I was very nice & polite, he took my info and suddenly comes back with a citation ( FOR The MAX ). That has ticked me off, in my deepest beliefs, he issued that just because I was utilizing my 2nd ammendment right. I have heard rumors of this happening ( if you have a weapon they throw the book at you ) but .... he could have easily issued me a warning or lesser ticket and gotten his point across. Especially since I had shown the utmost respect to him.

Additionally, my bad, make no mistake about it. My new job is working 21 days in a row, just to get 2 days off , it is a **** hole but pays a decent wage. After my last company ...I was needing gainful NOT stressful employment and sold my sole for money.

THIS is were I'm at. Tired of being tired, stressed out, suffer from LOSS ( Lack Of Sufficient SNOW ) ect.... and tired of being railroaded by the system. I don't really know what ever happened to the older GOOD cops, that used to let us go, could recognize a hard working Father just trying to scratch out a living for his family BUT they are GONE. Nothing but young BUCKs trying to make a name for themselves.... JIMO
I show supreme respect for the LAW, even though I call them names, just out of frustration mostly... You SEE , I'm a older DOG and changing my ways id unlikely. I really think they should be chasing down criminals not chasing a tax payer down and " bleeding them " for green. Let alone their concern for MY Safety.....

I think I'm done rambling for today, if nothing else, feel better after slinging mud at Dudley do-Right & Serpico..... I havent found a good name for my latest encounter with our government but he is the " MAIN " Speed Cop, for the county. Seemed nice until he shagged me down, it was almost like it was a game with him & his fire-fighting budds at the firehouse. He was jacked with adrenaline .... so much so that he was shaking. Kind of ticked me off, I'm not a criminal, not even close .... and he could tell that as soon as he ran my plate thru " BIG Brother " !

 

[dcsnomo]

I've been lucky. The last two encounters were 84 in a 65 in Arizona and 82 in a 55 in Door County. The AZ was flat out speeding, pushing my wife's Audi nicely down the highway on the way to Chicago. Cop asked me "How fast do you think you were going?" I replied, "well sir, if you're on top of your game today you should have gotten me for 88." He smiled and said "Well I was a bit slow on the trigger, I got 84. Wait right here.'
He came back to the car with a piece of paper, I knew it was a ticket until he said "I appreciate you being honest, here's your warning. But here's the deal. You will absolutely promise me you will not speed in my state, OK?" "Yessir", I replied, and set the cruise control to 65 all the way to New Mexico, when, of course, I stuffed my foot in it!

In Door County I was passing a tourist Buick, and the deputy came over the hill while I was still in his lane. Figured I was caught cause the radar detector was just blaring. Had to do something, so I floored it and pulled back in my lane, then pulled over when I saw the lights. Yup, a warning at 82, and the deputy is still a friend of mine today.

I figure my luck has run out, I gave up speeding.

Good luck!

 

[98panther]

Speeding tickets are for "Speeding" not for being a bad person, criminal, or bad parent.

 

[5_spot]

If radar was used, there are limitations involved, which can be used to fight a ticket.
Limitations-
-User training and certification are required so that the radar operator can understand and explain limitations that influence judgement.
-Radar speed guns do not work reliably in traffic.
-Significant vehicle separation is essential for proper operation when used for speed monitoring by law enforcement personnel.
Field of View-
The second limitation is that hand-held devices are limited to continuous-wave radar to make them light enough to be mobile. Speed measurements are only reliable when evaluated at a specific distance, and distance measurements require pulsed operation or cameras when more than one moving object is within the field of view. Continuous-wave radar produces only a steady tone and not pulses. The frequency shift of this tone is used to measure speed. Continuous-wave radar may be pointed directly at a vehicle 100 yards away but produce a speed measurement from a second vehicle 1 mile away when pointed down a straight roadway. Users cannot tell which object is being measured within the field of view without knowing the distance, which is impossible with continuous wave radar.
Some sophisticated devices may produce two different speed measurements from two objects within the field of view. This is used to allow the speed-gun to be used from a moving vehicle and not to discriminate between multiple vehicles within the field of view. Reliable operation cannot be achieved as more moving objects are added to the environment. Portable hand-held or vehicle-mounted radar can never produce a reliable measurements when 2 or more moving vehicles occupy the field of view if no distance measurement is produced by the radar.

Basically, Unless you're the only car on the road, there's no way to prove which car was actually speeding, using radar. Laser is another story, very accurate.

 

[snowsdog1]

Act 236 of 1961


600.113 Definitions; provisions governing traffic or parking violation or municipal civil infraction action; determination by preponderance of evidence.

Sec. 113.

(1) As used in this act:

(a) “Civil infraction” means an act or omission that is prohibited by a law and is not a crime under that law or that is prohibited by an ordinance and is not a crime under that ordinance, and for which civil sanctions may be ordered. Civil infraction includes, but is not limited to, the following:

(i) A violation of the Michigan vehicle code, Act No. 300 of the Public Acts of 1949, being sections 257.1 to 257.923 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, designated as a civil infraction.

(ii) A violation of a city, township, or village ordinance substantially corresponding to a provision of Act No. 300 of the Public Acts of 1949, if the ordinance designates the violation as a civil infraction.

(iii) A violation of an ordinance adopted pursuant to Act No. 235 of the Public Acts of 1969, being sections 257.941 to 257.943 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(iv) A violation of a city, township, or village ordinance adopting the uniform traffic code promulgated under Act No. 62 of the Public Acts of 1956, being sections 257.951 to 257.954 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, if the uniform traffic code designates the violation as a civil infraction.

(v) A violation of an ordinance adopted by the governing board of a state university or college pursuant to Act No. 291 of the Public Acts of 1967, being sections 390.891 to 390.893 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, if the ordinance designates the violation as a civil infraction.

(vi) A violation of regulations adopted by a county board of commissioners pursuant to Act No. 58 of the Public Acts of 1945, being section 46.201 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(vii) A municipal civil infraction.

(viii) A state civil infraction.

(ix) A violation of the pupil transportation act, Act No. 187 of the Public Acts of 1990, being sections 257.1801 to 257.1877 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, designated as a civil infraction.

(b) “Civil infraction action” means a civil action in which the defendant is alleged to be responsible for a civil infraction.

(c) “Municipal civil infraction” means a civil infraction involving a violation of an ordinance. Municipal civil infraction includes, but is not limited to, a trailway municipal civil infraction. Municipal civil infraction does not include a violation described in subdivision (a)(i) to (vi) or (ix) or any act or omission that constitutes a crime under any of the following:

(i) Article 7 or section 17766a of the public health code, Act No. 368 of the Public Acts of 1978, being sections 333.7101 to 333.7545 and 333.17766a of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(ii) The Michigan penal code, Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, being sections 750.1 to 750.568 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(iii) Act No. 300 of the Public Acts of 1949, being sections 257.1 to 257.923 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(iv) The Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(v) Part 801 (marine safety) of the natural resources and environmental protection act, Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.80101 to 324.80199 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(vi) The aeronautics code of the state of Michigan, Act No. 327 of the Public Acts of 1945, being sections 259.1 to 259.208 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(vii) Part 821 (snowmobiles) of Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.82101 to 324.82159 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(viii) Part 811 (off-road recreation vehicles) of Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.81101 to 324.81150 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(ix) The railroad code of 1993, Act No. 354 of the Public Acts of 1993, being sections 462.101 to 462.451 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(x) Any law of this state under which the act or omission is punishable by imprisonment for more than 90 days.

(d) “Municipal civil infraction action” means a civil action in which the defendant is alleged to be responsible for a municipal civil infraction. Municipal civil infraction action includes, but is not limited to, a trailway municipal civil infraction action.

(e) “State civil infraction” means a civil infraction involving either of the following:

(i) A violation of state law that is designated by statute as a state civil infraction.

(ii) A violation of a city, township, village, or county ordinance that is designated by statute as a state civil infraction.

(f) “State civil infraction action” means a civil action in which the defendant is alleged to be responsible for a state civil infraction.

(g) “Trailway municipal civil infraction” means a municipal civil infraction involving the operation of a vehicle on a recreational trailway at a time, in a place, or in a manner prohibited by ordinance.

(h) “Trailway municipal civil infraction action” means a civil infraction action in which the defendant is alleged to be responsible for a trailway municipal civil infraction.

(2) Except as otherwise provided in this act:

(a) A civil infraction action involving a traffic or parking violation is governed by Act No. 300 of the Public Acts of 1949.

(b) A municipal civil infraction action is governed by chapter 87.

(c) A state civil infraction action is governed by chapter 88.

(3) A determination that a defendant is responsible for a civil infraction and thus subject to civil sanctions shall be by a preponderance of the evidence.

 

[Grant Hoar]

I bet I am the only guy on this site whose last ticket was for doing 23 mph in a 10 mph zone. Yep, our good old Forest Preserve District officers sitting at a picnic table got me. I didn't see them in time, due to the tunnel vision travelling at that insane speed

 

[russholio]

Just an observation, not a judgement or a jump to a conclusion......

I've been pulled over a half dozen or so times, by a variety of agencies (local, county, state, and DNR) in my driving career, which is 32 years. Not once --ever -- have I ever been pulled over for something I didn't do. Sometimes I got a warning, sometimes I got a ticket (I'm 0-2 with the state troopers, got a ticket both times from them). I never tried to talk my way out of a jam and never told some fabricated story. But I was ALWAYS polite and told the truth. And I was treated professionally and with respect in return.

Again -- not an insinuation, not a judgement -- just a little anecdote because I'm tired of painting and need a break.

 

[nytro_rtx]

Just an observation, not a judgement or a jump to a conclusion......

I've been pulled over a half dozen or so times, by a variety of agencies (local, county, state, and DNR) in my driving career, which is 32 years. Not once --ever -- have I ever been pulled over for something I didn't do. Sometimes I got a warning, sometimes I got a ticket (I'm 0-2 with the state troopers, got a ticket both times from them). I never tried to talk my way out of a jam and never told some fabricated story. But I was ALWAYS polite and told the truth. And I was treated professionally and with respect in return.

Again -- not an insinuation, not a judgement -- just a little anecdote because I'm tired of painting and need a break.

X2

 

[polarisrider1]

X2

X3, man up.

 

[mjkaliszak]

X3, man up.

My man-li-hood is not on trial here " your honor "

I think it is time to drop this thread, I see it going down hill from here.

 

[mezz]

Your MVR reveals your driving history, that in itself is going to tell the Magistrate a lot about your situation before you even say one word. I don't see Case Law being of any value to you in this situation. I realize that your not happy about how you came to get the ticket(s), but, unfortunately that is not going to change how this is going to be viewed, not only by the court, but any insurance company. The argument over calibration of the equipment is a stretch. With your present driving record & another violation accrued, attempting to have it dismissed or reduced, I would say your chances are slim to none. I have known drivers that have gone 20 & 30 years with out a single ticket, not even a parking ticket, when they were pulled over for the speed, the officer was made aware of no previous action on their records but still smiled & handed them their citations. Yes, that sucks, but caught is caught, we pay for our mistakes & we move on. Just my opinion.-Mezz

 

[polarisrider1]

My man-li-hood is not on trial here " your honor "

I think it is time to drop this thread, I see it going down hill from here.

What I am saying is if your guilty then your guilty. The driving record you have will tell all. If it is clean and you were not truly speeding then fight it. If you are fighting it because you are a habitual speeder then you are gaining nothing from it personally to fight it, because the Judge will just be enabling you to speed for a little bit longer until you get caught again. Repeated speeding is the issue as you stated. Not the Judges fault your daughters drive expensive cars, etc. You can't expect to be subsidized for that. The "man up" statement is meant to say, "Do what is right". guilty or not, do what is right. that's all.

 

[Dave_B]

That's why I was hoping to get off a little easier. The last ticket I got was 1993. I was going 82 in a 70. He gave me a ticket for 75 in a 70. Can't argue that much (zero points) but was hoping to get a break for no tickets since 1993...

NOT!

 

[700classic]

Been to see the Magistrate a few times in my driving career. Fought the tickets that I thought were wrong. The speeding tickets that were given were deserved. Went into court and told them I'm not trying to get out of the ticket. Was not questioning the officer's ability. Was willing to pay the fine but seeing how I drive for a living I didn't need the points on my license. A couple of times I got the points dropped other times got them reduced. The court has heard every excuse there is out there. If you go in trying to beat them at there own game,good luck!

 

[snowsdog1]

I also have been a few times in the distant past, and though your going in front of a magistrate there was as DA with the officer at each one.

 

[polarisrider1]

What was the out come?

 

[mjkaliszak]

What was the out come?

Time to leave a sleeping dog alone. This thread with it's incinuations should fall into " never to return land ".
I'm innocent as stated earlier, I still believe I have a " right " to defend myself and to date have NOT heard nothing from the local district office.

For the record, I'm tired of paying the government money, let alone have an insurance company capitalize on my misfortune. I for one want the government OUT of my life ( less obtrusive ).

 

[booondocker]

While there is no real harm in trying, I think the bigger lesson here is did you actually LEARN from this or are you like a dog on a porky....gunna go right back for a little more that got you the first, second and third time?

Not to be a smart butt here, but my mother use to tell me that folks who speed, are POOR TIME MANAGERS... and they tend to trade off the few extra seconds or minutes that they save by speeding for trips to visit the judge, and all the court personel who need your visit like they need another visit to the dentist.

Your kids are watching too....if the ole man shucks and jives, on stuff like this, perhaps you should revise your approach and get your act together and fight some OTHER fight.....

In the scheme of things, the time you save by "sailing along" more than 5 or 8 above the speed limit, *(because they usually won't bother you at those speeds) you don't save diddly....

 

[mjkaliszak]

I'm sorry, but I may be MANY things .... Perfect is not one of them.
Like I said in the beginning , I told the officer, I didn't know I was speeding.
I was more then polite, and being that the " Facts " I have disclosed are not misconstrued, do not believe that a 4 point ticket was warranted. It is at the descretion of the officer as to what he writes the ticket for. Now here is my main complaint .... was the 4 pointer issued because there was a weapon in the car ? I believe so... with that being said, and receiving other tickets throughout my driving career ( none of them @ the max level of points, regardless of speed ... probably due to to my manners and respectfullness ) I must ( am entitled to ) defend myself. ( PERIOD ) I have paid for all my tickets up until this point in my life and just never wanted to deal with the court system.

Now...some internet TRIPE ! ( Merriam Webster noun definition #2 )
Here is what I have learned so far , the world is grey, even though most of us see it as black and white . ( Or want to believe things are ). It is not wether you are innocent or guilty in our legal system... it is what you can prove ! Look at OJ ?????

The traffic enforcement system in this country has been the " bane " of my existence. I have paid handsome-ly to drive.

Exactly what part of " Protect and Serve " does the traffic speed enforcement fall under ? ( Oh wait a second .... I have the answer .... The Department of Revenue ! )

This post is supposed to be " entertainment " to some degree, it is on a snowmobiling forum .... during the off season.

As far as "getting my act together " ( oh brother ).. no chance of that !

Now any member claiming self rightousness ( I don't speed , Man up X2 , man up X3 , ect.... ) Please just look down at the speedometer next time you utilize a motor vehicle. If you go 1mph over the limit... you too are a speeder. If you believe you are not, your simply just not being " completely honest " with your self .... ( a moral problem for another day ) !

As far as me speeding and what exactly took place.... not sure what happened. I was in the middle lane, aka turning lane on a busy 4 lane highway, preparring to turn when I passed infront of the firehouse with the officer at it . I find it hard to believe that I was going almost 80 when I had to turn in 300 yrds ??? Could there be a mistake ? Many things don't make sense !

I believe that as I age .... not only is my vision, hearing and positive disposition going downhill, but my willingness to shell out yet again more money to my government is becoming -unacceptable !

I also have to mention ( to be fair ) that I'm not sure whom I was more upset with , the officer with the excessive point ticket or my self !!!! for not being able to see a police car ???? Is my focus and memory really getting that bad as I age ? I fear so ! ! !
Not to mention being paranoid everytime I'm behind the wheel, ( I can't get another ticket ) ???? Not really sure what is going on at this point in my life, could it be part of my mid life crisis ???? I can only hope to live to be 100 or 98.

This " fight " or as I call it defense , it mainly about principle ! With that being said, I think I will permanently exit this post.... graciously !

This post ( again ) is mainly for entertainment ( it pretty much non sense ) ! Please don't read more into it than that.

Regards from the " Man - Kave " !

As Scotty King would say !

MJK OUT !

 

[98panther]

I know you think everyone is against you. But you haven't really given any info so far - that makes it seem like you don't deserve what you were given.

I think what you said here should be your ONLY defense.......

As far as me speeding and what exactly took place.... not sure what happened. I was in the middle lane, aka turning lane on a busy 4 lane highway, preparring to turn when I passed infront of the firehouse with the officer at it . I find it hard to believe that I was going almost 80 when I had to turn in 300 yrds ??? Could there be a mistake ? Many things don't make sense !

Stick to that, and ask for mercy, try to convince them you are being as careful as possible.

I'd leave all the rest out of it... the gun theory, the "man" is against you, the fact the officer appeared shaken. Or that traffic enforcement isn't protecting society, the radar gun is not accurate or the officer didn't know how to use it. Keep those thoughts to yourself, they will just P them off