Lack of Grooming?

[rrconductor06]

Hello

My group went on touring/backpack trip from Wetmore to Calumet on Tuesday, February 12
I was just checking on what appeared to be a total lack of grooming from Trail intersection 8/15 near Baraga for the entire distance to Calumet with exception from Twin Lakes to Toivola where we passed the Superior Trails Groomer. I have ridden these trails many times and never experienced ungroomed trails for such a long distance?
The following trails were ridden. Trails 8/15, 11, 12, 3, and 17
These Trails were absolutely horrible, plus with amount of snow on the ground, snowing all day and total lack of traffic it seemed odd to all of us that we ran into such poor trails for such a long distance.
From Wetmore via Trail 8 to the Trail 8/15 intersection, trails were very good to even fantastic then it all changed!
Just curious as to any groomer issues or other reasons?
Thanks!

 

[jd]

I can only speak for the trails from Toivola to Calumet.

We are grooming every 24 hours at least. That happens at night for best effect. From Thursday through Saturday, we groom at least twice in a 24 hour period. Once at night and then once in the afternoon. So if you were on 3 from Toivola to Houghton and 17 from Hancock to Calumet in the afternoon, you were riding on a trail that had not been groomed in 20 hours or so. I know it may have seemed like more, but they get bumped up in a short period of time and traffic up this way has not been too much slower during the week than weekends this season.

Keep in mind that fresh snow does not automatically make a trail better. Unless the trail was in NEED of snow to better cover it, the fresh snow just gets pushed into bumps quicker by sleds than on a trail that has been packed down by a groomer.

Also, trails 3 and 17 are the only way to get from Toivola to Calumet, so all the traffic traveling to and from the Keweenaw must use it. We were hoping to be able to hit all of our trails at least twice in a 24 hour period every day all season, but have struggled to find operators. So that is why we have made Thur-Sat a priority, as that is when the double shifts are most needed.

If you get up here again, try the Dreamland Trail, which takes you from Dollar Bay to Lake Linden. It is narrower and more twisty trail, so the going is much slower than the DNR trails, but also less traveled.

Hopefully by next season we will have the trail from Dollar Bay to Lake Linden opened up again and that will help take stress off of the Hancock to Calumet section.

-John

 

[ridindirty800]

I would put my money on all the snow causing the problem not lack of grooming. I have left Twin lakes on a perfect groomed trail in the a.m only to return on 2' mogules that would make you think it has not been touched all year. And the snow is so light the groomers cant get it to set up, so the fist 20 sleds over it blow the snow out and back to mogules.

 

[rrconductor06]

Thanks for the input!

I have been riding in the U.P since the mid 90’s and do agreed on both responses, however the trails from Wetmore to the 8/15 intersection were great, traffic was less than 50-60 sleds passed the entire route with the heavy snow as well, plus we did pass 3 different groomers as well Munising, Little Lake, and Moose Country, so that certainly helped.

The time frame we went through Twin Lakes was approx. 930pm with a stop at Parkview, then off to Calumet, we did pass the Superior Trails Groomer near Toivola and trails were good for that short distance, then back to the poor trails.

The next day we rode the entire Keweenaw, never saw a groomer all day, trails were much better north of Calumet (fair-good), although not the quality as in years past.

I know many many things cause or create poor trails, as well as a great trail, it just the first time we ever encountered poor trails for such a long distance and was curious as to why?

But thanks to all that work hard to keep up the trails, as this was no intention of bashing or blaming anyone! Just was curious as to the vast difference in trail conditions.

 

[old abe]

Easy to explain, too many sleds on the same trails. Constant grooming wouldn't fix it.

 

[jimkaz]

Easy to explain, too many sleds on the same trails. Constant grooming wouldn't fix it.

Totally agree. Baraga club doesn’t do a good job, just Ask the locals. Our group went from Ishpeming to Copper Harbor, had great trails till trail #109/12 then got to trail#3 was great again happened both ways.

 

[indy_500]

Big snow = big bumps. Not to mention lake effect snow is not ideal to set up a good base. Most the clubs up there are grooming daily but since lake effect blower doesn't "base up" well there's only so much they can do.

 

[snowchief]

Big snow = big bumps. Not to mention lake effect snow is not ideal to set up a good base. Most the clubs up there are grooming daily but since lake effect blower doesn't "base up" well there's only so much they can do.

Group I go with always wants to chase the big snow dumps, I am a fan of staying just outside the big snow areas the trails seem to stay quite a bit smoother plus everyone else is where the big snow is

 

[rrconductor06]

Totally agree. Baraga club doesn’t do a good job, just Ask the locals. Our group went from Ishpeming to Copper Harbor, had great trails till trail #109/12 then got to trail#3 was great again happened both ways.

Oh yes agreed, very rare to have good trails that Baraga Grooms, the Moose Mountain/Powerline near Nestoria on trail #8 was always very poor, the reroute is somewhat better but not by much. Always commented that wished Moose Country would groom Baraga portion of the trail, as they do a fantastic job every year, never a complaint with them!!

 

[sweeperguy]

Totally agree. Baraga club doesn’t do a good job, just Ask the locals. Our group went from Ishpeming to Copper Harbor, had great trails till trail #109/12 then got to trail#3 was great again happened both ways.

Timing is everything I was on 109 from Tw. Lks down to 159 into Baraga on Sunday the 17th. 109 and 159 were near perfect. Took 8/15 out of Baraga it was good to very good.

 

[bullett700]

I can only speak for the trails from Toivola to Calumet.

We are grooming every 24 hours at least. That happens at night for best effect. From Thursday through Saturday, we groom at least twice in a 24 hour period. Once at night and then once in the afternoon. So if you were on 3 from Toivola to Houghton and 17 from Hancock to Calumet in the afternoon, you were riding on a trail that had not been groomed in 20 hours or so. I know it may have seemed like more, but they get bumped up in a short period of time and traffic up this way has not been too much slower during the week than weekends this season.

Keep in mind that fresh snow does not automatically make a trail better. Unless the trail was in NEED of snow to better cover it, the fresh snow just gets pushed into bumps quicker by sleds than on a trail that has been packed down by a groomer.

Also, trails 3 and 17 are the only way to get from Toivola to Calumet, so all the traffic traveling to and from the Keweenaw must use it. We were hoping to be able to hit all of our trails at least twice in a 24 hour period every day all season, but have struggled to find operators. So that is why we have made Thur-Sat a priority, as that is when the double shifts are most needed.

If you get up here again, try the Dreamland Trail, which takes you from Dollar Bay to Lake Linden. It is narrower and more twisty trail, so the going is much slower than the DNR trails, but also less traveled.

Hopefully by next season we will have the trail from Dollar Bay to Lake Linden opened up again and that will help take stress off of the Hancock to Calumet section.

-John

What do you require to help with trail grooming? I live in MN and have home in Mass City, and am in the process of retiring and plan to spend more time there during the winter. I would be interested in helping out...please pm me.

 

[old abe]

Totally agree. Baraga club doesn’t do a good job, just Ask the locals. Our group went from Ishpeming to Copper Harbor, had great trails till trail #109/12 then got to trail#3 was great again happened both ways.

Baraga Tourism Bureau is a irresponsible group when it comes to trail grooming.

 

[Winter Warlock]

We were up there 2 weeks ago and the trails were as good as I've seen anywhere! They really do a great job especially considering the traffic and the trail closures this year.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK....AND THANKS!

 

[jimkaz]

Oh yes agreed, very rare to have good trails that Baraga Grooms, the Moose Mountain/Powerline near Nestoria on trail #8 was always very poor, the reroute is somewhat better but not by much. Always commented that wished Moose Country would groom Baraga portion of the trail, as they do a fantastic job every year, never a complaint with them!!

Totally agree again. Just got back from Ishpeming, rode from Ishpeming to Watersmeet trail 8 perfect till after where Moose country turns around by Craig lake and Baraga takes over TERRIBLE all the way to trail 8/15. No excuse, also sucks that these Loggers can come in and plow our trails down to dirt we pay to use the trails do they? I think if they are going to use our trails and destroy them they need to buy trail permits for all equipment and the workers vehicles that use the trails.

 

[Skylar]

Totally agree again. Just got back from Ishpeming, rode from Ishpeming to Watersmeet trail 8 perfect till after where Moose country turns around by Craig lake and Baraga takes over TERRIBLE all the way to trail 8/15. No excuse, also sucks that these Loggers can come in and plow our trails down to dirt we pay to use the trails do they? I think if they are going to use our trails and destroy them they need to buy trail permits for all equipment and the workers vehicles that use the trails.

You have it backwards, snowmobilers get to use the established logging roads as trails, not loggers using snowmobile trails. Without the generosity of the the people/companies that own the land, there would be no snowmobile trails.

 

[Tracker]

Baraga Tourism Bureau is a irresponsible group when it comes to trail grooming.

Little tip for you guys if the trail 14 is rough from bigbay to Baraga Or L'anse and I want them groomed what I do is I call the casino and tell him I have a group of 20 guys staying in bigbay and that we need to get to the casino and it's rough from Ford Road to Baraga could you please groom it for us and we can come to the casino.... within 8 hours it's groomed .....WALLA....so just do that to any Trail they do

 

[jimkaz]

You have it backwards, snowmobilers get to use the established logging roads as trails, not loggers using snowmobile trails. Without the generosity of the the people/companies that own the land, there would be no snowmobile trails.

Skylar, I don’t know what you are smoking but for your information there are trails that are being logged that are Not on private land.

 

[sweeperguy]

....

 

[fusionrider600]

The grooming from Phoenix north has been terrible for the most part for at least 2 seasons now. I get you can’t groom during the day because of the traffic but it certainly can be done overnight when it can set up. Rode out of Lac La Belle this weekendand no grooming done on Friday or Saturday night. Everything was groomed early Monday morning when we left. What’s the deal with that? After 20 years of riding in the Keweenaw this is terribly disappointing. Considering cancelling my reservations for my next trip and heading to the Eastern UP.

 

[ridindirty800]

Thats what he said? He said snowmobiles get to use the logging roads for trails. So the trail is going down an active logging road.