land issue in northern MN

[oldguy]

Chevytahoe764
There are different Laws in MI then in MN. We are not asking Molpus to open their land to all recreation. Just 2 things, a snowmobile trail and road access thru their land so people can get to their private land. There are over 16,000
Land owners that currently allow snowmobile trails in MN. They do not do it because of any tax benefits, they do it for the good of the community. The state and local snowmobile clubs provide the liability insurance, so there is no risk there.

Molpus dosen't care about the community and the people that are effected by this decision

 

[POLARISDAN]

The next card played should be the threat by the state to take the property through the power of eminent domain and offer to pay less than market value.

not to be disrespectcful..but what are u talking about? its private property..why shuld the state be allowed to take it and open it up to use? there is already millions of acres going into disrepair that the goverment and states own and cant afford to keep up becuz of govt misspending

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

We are not asking Molpus to open their land to all recreation.

By law if their lands are in the SFIA program then have to allow public access. For that access they should be compensated. If no compensation what reason do they have to let other people use their land?

As for the other 16,000 people be very thankful they allow today as it could all change tomorrow.

Instead of complaining about a private land owner doing what they want with their property, why don't you thank them and others for allowing you to use the land and find something else to complain about.

 

[POLARISDAN]

Chevytahoe764
There are different Laws in MI then in MN. We are not asking Molpus to open their land to all recreation. Just 2 things, a snowmobile trail and road access thru their land so people can get to their private land. There are over 16,000
Land owners that currently allow snowmobile trails in MN. They do not do it because of any tax benefits, they do it for the good of the community. The state and local snowmobile clubs provide the liability insurance, so there is no risk there.

Molpus dosen't care about the community and the people that are effected by this decision

correct..they have no incentive to care about the community,they are a corporation..it completely different when a farmer opens their lands to our clubs. they are local and do care. without the incentives, they will surely close the land to rec, but will figure out access to private landowners who connect

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

they are a corporation

Exactly they are timber investment management organization (known as a TIMO) whose job is to make a return on investment from their forest lands for the clients. The reason they exist is solely to manage the forest for long term revenue.

It costs them lots of time and money to allow people to use the land which comes directly from the profit. They offset those expenditures by saving money on their taxes. If no tax savings that means it isn't worth it to spend that money and time allowing people to use it.

If you want your retirement account to make less return on investment then find out what TIMO they are invested in and tell them to spend more of the profit on snowmobile trails. I'm sure millions of people would be happy working a few extra years instead of retiring so that their investment company can spend a little on trails.

 

[xcr440]

Not that it should matter, but I'm sure the thinking is not the same.

The original owner Boise-Cascade has offices right here in MN, employing many MN workers. Molpus is based out of Mississippi. Now I'm sure they will be empoying MN workers, but they don't have the investment in the community BC did for 30 years.

Another point is Molpus bought the land AFTER the tax incentives changed, which may be a large reason why BC sold the land. Molpus (Actually the investment company responsible for making money decisions, not sure who is actually employed by Molpus for that purpose) are there for one reason, make money. They don't give a hoot about what was/is there now. They are going to TAKE what they can, and if they can't get what they want, gates I'm sure they spent thousands installing last year will be closed.

The trails were open up there this year on a gentlemens agreement, that something could be worked out. That's the big question, can something? Will both sides compromise? We (snowmobilers) and the local businesses sure hope so. I have my doubts.

 

[stormbringr1]

-

Stormbringr1
The are thousands of Tom, Richards and Harry’s that allow snowmobile trails on their land without any government incentives. That is the back bone of all snowmobile trail systems in the Midwest. The Mulpus company can do whatever they want with their land. I am sure they will also expect the state to put out any forest fires that happen on their land as well. The trails has absolutely no impact on their forest management. I guess when a company puts their profits before thousand of their neighbors shows everybody what kind of company they really are.

I hear what you're saying, oldguy--and it's completely immaterial to the point. Corporations make investments for one primary reason. It's called RETURN on investment. It makes no difference if the company is based in Mississippi, Minnesota or in the Grinch's cave at the top of Mount Crumpet--they have made a substantial capital outlay to acquire an asset--and so they therefore OWN that asset. Along with owning an asset comes the ability to CONTROL that asset to (within the law) your pleasure... Of course they are going to put profits first. Why do you think they acquired the property?

On an obviously much smaller scale, it's no different than any one of us who own property. BTW, oldguy... I hope you have a nice yard because I'm going to park my fifth wheel in it for a few weeks next summer. Make sure you have your hose hooked up. I know you won't mind.

 

[stormbringr1]

Not that it should matter, but I'm sure the thinking is not the same.

The original owner Boise-Cascade has offices right here in MN, employing many MN workers. Molpus is based out of Mississippi. Now I'm sure they will be empoying MN workers, but they don't have the investment in the community BC did for 30 years.

Another point is Molpus bought the land AFTER the tax incentives changed, which may be a large reason why BC sold the land. Molpus (Actually the investment company responsible for making money decisions, not sure who is actually employed by Molpus for that purpose) are there for one reason, make money. They don't give a hoot about what was/is there now. They are going to TAKE what they can, and if they can't get what they want, gates I'm sure they spent thousands installing last year will be closed.

The trails were open up there this year on a gentlemens agreement, that something could be worked out. That's the big question, can something? Will both sides compromise? We (snowmobilers) and the local businesses sure hope so. I have my doubts.

You are correct. Undoubtedly Boise Cascade dumped the property because the tax benefits were abated and politically didn't find it a good trade off to fight that battle. Undoubtedly Molpus bought the land at a discount because of the loss of the preferential tax benefits and is now leveraging the closing of the land to public use to restore the preferential tax benefit and thus restore the premium to the market value of the acreage--just as they should. Once the tax benefits are restored--I wouldn't be surprised to see the parcels go back on the market. It's called *capitalism* my friend--the very backbone of american prosperity, eh?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

If I remember correctly Boise Cascade sold off most of their timberland assets to a liquidation firm called Madison Dearborn a few years back because they were losing money and needed the cash. Then it was bought up by Molpus and their investors. Knowing guys that work for Molpus and how they operate I doubt they will turn around and resell it anytime soon. They are in the business of managing forests for a return on investment.

 

[oldguy]

MN has had the grant in aid program for 43 years. There are thousands of landowners that are enrolled in the program. Most every mile in the grant in aid program is because of private landowners. The program allows a 14 foot right of way thru their property. This right of way is only during the period of December 1 thru April 1st. It can be cancelled by the landowner at anytime. It is only for snowmobilers it doesn’t allow for the following:

Hunting, Fishing, Camping with your 5th wheel, camping with your tents, camping with your motorhome, atv or utv’s, exploring, hiking, dog sledding, snowboarding, skiing….etc

I think you get the point--- nothing but snowmobiling. The trails are maintained and insured by the snowmobile clubs. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES FOR THE LANDOWNERS. That is why it has worked in MN in the past and why it will still work in the future.

I completely understand the concept of private property. Yes private means private. If you hate snowmobiles or snowmobilers, belong the Sierra Club, believe snowmobilers should not have the right to cross your land because you are not getting anything for it in return, YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT.

My point is we are losing miles of important trails, not for financial reason, not because it is next to a new housing development, not because the Sierra Club wants less trails. Because of political posturing.

It was suggested earlier on this thread we should stop complaining about losing these snowmobiles trails. John Dee sites is for snowmobiler’s. When our passion for snowmobiling gets threatened due to trail closing, instead of standing up for the people that are closing the trails as a few of you are doing, we should at least ban together in support of those that are tying get this issue resolved.

In the end we will all end up as the losers. Mulpus Paper will not get their tax breaks and our trails will be closed

 

[stormbringr1]

MN has had the grant in aid program for 43 years. There are thousands of landowners that are enrolled in the program. Most every mile in the grant in aid program is because of private landowners. The program allows a 14 foot right of way thru their property. This right of way is only during the period of December 1 thru April 1st. It can be cancelled by the landowner at anytime. It is only for snowmobilers it doesn’t allow for the following:

Hunting, Fishing, Camping with your 5th wheel, camping with your tents, camping with your motorhome, atv or utv’s, exploring, hiking, dog sledding, snowboarding, skiing….etc

I think you get the point--- nothing but snowmobiling. The trails are maintained and insured by the snowmobile clubs. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES FOR THE LANDOWNERS. That is why it has worked in MN in the past and why it will still work in the future.

I completely understand the concept of private property. Yes private means private. If you hate snowmobiles or snowmobilers, belong the Sierra Club, believe snowmobilers should not have the right to cross your land because you are not getting anything for it in return, YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT.

My point is we are losing miles of important trails, not for financial reason, not because it is next to a new housing development, not because the Sierra Club wants less trails. Because of political posturing.

It was suggested earlier on this thread we should stop complaining about losing these snowmobiles trails. John Dee sites is for snowmobiler’s. When our passion for snowmobiling gets threatened due to trail closing, instead of standing up for the people that are closing the trails as a few of you are doing, we should at least ban together in support of those that are tying get this issue resolved.

In the end we will all end up as the losers. Mulpus Paper will not get their tax breaks and our trails will be closed

In my humble opinion, one of the biggest problems with what has become of the american society is that everybody is running around only giving a hot shiite about their own selfish best interests regardless of the broader implications. Yes, I love snowmobiling--it's my favorite recreational activity in fact. I was born/raised in northern Minnesota. I'd love to see this acreage remain open to snowmobiling. However--you'll never hear me whining about a private landowner exercising his/her right to do with their property as they determine to. After all--it's THEIRS, eh? Who am I to bitch about it? If I have a problem with the decisions Molpus or anyone else is exercising over their property--then my options are to purchase the property from them and, just as they are now--do with it as I see fit...or STFU. This country isn't what it once was--but it's still America.

 

[xcr440]

In my humble opinion, one of the biggest problems with what has become of the american society is that everybody is running around only giving a hot shiite about their own selfish best interests regardless of the broader implications. Yes, I love snowmobiling--it's my favorite recreational activity in fact. I was born/raised in northern Minnesota. I'd love to see this acreage remain open to snowmobiling. However--you'll never hear me whining about a private landowner exercising his/her right to do with their property as they determine to. After all--it's THEIRS, eh? Who am I to bitch about it? If I have a problem with the decisions Molpus or anyone else is exercising over their property--then my options are to purchase the property from them and, just as they are now--do with it as I see fit...or STFU. This country isn't what it once was--but it's still America.

You are right about that. Its too bad the BLM couldn't have stepped in and helped out with that like they do out west. Not even sure there is much they could have done, but just a thought.

Still hoping for a solution that will be positive for all, but not holding my breath.

 

[stormbringr1]

You are right about that. Its too bad the BLM couldn't have stepped in and helped out with that like they do out west. Not even sure there is much they could have done, but just a thought.

Still hoping for a solution that will be positive for all, but not holding my breath.

If people want to be upset with someone over this issue--look to the elected officials in Minnesota who, in their infinite wisdom, have determined that keeping all these parcels open to free public use isn't a good value proposition. They apparently have much higher priorities for wasting our tax dollars.

 

[xcr440]

If people want to be upset with someone over this issue--look to the elected officials in Minnesota who, in their infinite wisdom, have determined that keeping all these parcels open to free public use isn't a good value proposition. They apparently have much higher priorities for wasting our tax dollars.

Correct. And that elected official is the FORMER gov, so he's dropped it in the hands of the current clowns, and they don't seem to interested in dealing with it, from the sounds of their comments.

I guess those are the guys to get on the horn with over this deal. Hopefully the businesses up there can get their voices heard, because in reality, they are the ones who will be directly affected by this. We as a snowmobiling community will just go somewhere else if those areas close. I hope this doesn't open up a bigger can of worms with "individual" land owners wanting kick backs as well.

 

[POLARISDAN]

MN has had the grant in aid program for 43 years. There are thousands of landowners that are enrolled in the program. Most every mile in the grant in aid program is because of private landowners. The program allows a 14 foot right of way thru their property. This right of way is only during the period of December 1 thru April 1st. It can be cancelled by the landowner at anytime. It is only for snowmobilers it doesn’t allow for the following:

Hunting, Fishing, Camping with your 5th wheel, camping with your tents, camping with your motorhome, atv or utv’s, exploring, hiking, dog sledding, snowboarding, skiing….etc

I think you get the point--- nothing but snowmobiling. The trails are maintained and insured by the snowmobile clubs. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES FOR THE LANDOWNERS. That is why it has worked in MN in the past and why it will still work in the future.

I completely understand the concept of private property. Yes private means private. If you hate snowmobiles or snowmobilers, belong the Sierra Club, believe snowmobilers should not have the right to cross your land because you are not getting anything for it in return, YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT.

My point is we are losing miles of important trails, not for financial reason, not because it is next to a new housing development, not because the Sierra Club wants less trails. Because of political posturing.

It was suggested earlier on this thread we should stop complaining about losing these snowmobiles trails. John Dee sites is for snowmobiler’s. When our passion for snowmobiling gets threatened due to trail closing, instead of standing up for the people that are closing the trails as a few of you are doing, we should at least ban together in support of those that are tying get this issue resolved.

In the end we will all end up as the losers. Mulpus Paper will not get their tax breaks and our trails will be closed

first of all nobody is complaining about losing trails..this is just a forum and somebody brought up the fact that molpus want to close the trails becuz of the tax break they lost..our point is just that it is PRIVATE PROPERTY...and they are entitled to do what they wish..none of us want to lose trails, obviously..but when people say that they owe us the RIGHT to use their land for free..it just wrong...

yes hopefully mn powers that be will figure this out, give them the tax break they deserve, and the trails will stay open

 

[POLARISDAN]

In my humble opinion, one of the biggest problems with what has become of the american society is that everybody is running around only giving a hot shiite about their own selfish best interests regardless of the broader implications. Yes, I love snowmobiling--it's my favorite recreational activity in fact. I was born/raised in northern Minnesota. I'd love to see this acreage remain open to snowmobiling. However--you'll never hear me whining about a private landowner exercising his/her right to do with their property as they determine to. After all--it's THEIRS, eh? Who am I to bitch about it? If I have a problem with the decisions Molpus or anyone else is exercising over their property--then my options are to purchase the property from them and, just as they are now--do with it as I see fit...or STFU. This country isn't what it once was--but it's still America.

well said my friend!!!!!

 

[durphee]

From a gov't standpoint this is an easy one. If the tax dollars received through snowmobile activities is higher than the tax break they give the company then they should grant the tax break. If ending the tax break (subsidy) is a higher value then end it. But, that's not how reality works. Private property is private property. We, as in the snowmobile community, need to make it worth the companies investment. From a reality standpoint, the entire snowmobile business is at the mercy of private land owners.

 

[oldguy]

Instead of taking Strombringer advice to STFU. I met with a very influential MN State Senator this past week to discuss the issue at length. He has assured me that they will be working Mulpus again and was very confident this will be worked out by next years sled season.

 

[mngolf4]

oldguy - a HUGE personal thanks from me to you in taking your valuable personal time to discuss this issue with one of our Senators who can hopefully make a difference and solve this issue for the snowmobiling masses!!!

 

[bearrassler]

oldguy - a HUGE personal thanks from me to you in taking your valuable personal time to discuss this issue with one of our Senators who can hopefully make a difference and solve this issue for the snowmobiling masses!!!

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