Manistee-Huron Forest

polarisrider1

New member
Time to Take Action on

Proposed Snowmobiling Ban

Draft SEIS in the Huron-Manistee National Forests Proposes to Ban Snowmobiling

The Huron-Manistee National Forests has released a Draft Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) for public review and comment. The SEIS proposes to ban snowmobiling and gun hunting within 13 Semi-Primitive Non-Motorized Areas (SPNM) on these forests as the result of a legal decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals. Your participation in this process is critical!

Now that the SEIS has been released, we need you to send letters to the Forest Service in support of Proposed Action Alternative 3 of the SEIS. The areas in question should be defined as Semi-Primitive Motorized areas, and kept open to snowmobiling and firearm hunting.

Tell them that you are opposed to Proposed Action Alternative 2, which would essentially shut off trails both north to south and east to west across the Northern Lower Peninsula.

Snowmobilers in Cadillac would no longer be able to get Traverse City Baldwin or Reed City. Riders would also have trouble getting from Ogemaw Hills to Houghton Lake.

A Little Background

As a result of a U.S. Court of Appeals decision, comments were taken by the Forest Service on two proposed alternatives related to snowmobile-use and firearm use in semi-primitive non-motorized management areas and firearm use in or near primitive areas.

1. No action- This alternative would maintain the direction in the 2006 Forest Plan.

2. Notice of Intent - Amend the Plan to follow the 6th Circuit Court ruling. This alternative would ban gun hunting on all areas and snowmobile use within and adjacent to selected SPNM areas.

The Forest Service received more than 9,000 letters on this issue. We were told that 2,500 were form letters from members of the Fund for Animals. These letters came from all over the world, and were in favor of closing our public lands to snowmobiling and fire arms hunting.

Send Your Own Personal Letter

Your MSA Board knows that this issue and process can be difficult to understand. That is why we are providing the following information for you to include within your own personal letters. Please realize that the Forest Service tends to throw out form letters, so your personal letter will carry the most weight in this process. You need to write to the Forest Service and tell them that you support Proposed Action Alternative 3 of the SEIS. The areas in question should be defined as Semi-Primitive Motorized areas, and thereby keep all existing areas open to snowmobiling and firearm hunting.

Also, tell the Forest Service that you are opposed to Proposed Action Alternative 2. It would be wrong to ban snowmobile use and firearm hunting in existing SPNM areas on these forests.
More Information You Can Include

The Proposed Action ignores the SEIS analysis which shows that less than 27 percent of existing SPNM areas are located beyond a 1/2 mile from open public roads; therefore these areas clearly fail to meet “remoteness” conditions expected to be found in true SPNM areas.

The Forest Service made a serious mistake when it classified the 13 parcels of lands in question as SPNM in 2006 based purely upon ill conceived wishes for unrealistic future “desired conditions.” Proper forest management should, instead, be based upon a realistic interpretation of existing and future conditions, i.e. facts and proper application of agency standards, rather than merely hoping a sow’s ear may eventually become a silk purse for SPNM advocates.

If Alternative 2 is selected, the 2006 SPNM classification error will only be proliferated and likely lead to additional litigation, while choosing Alternative 3 can properly correct this mistake.

All snowmobile trails which would be closed by the Proposed Action are located on open public roads and should therefore remain open for winter snowmobile trail use.

The SEIS improperly minimizes the cumulative effects of Alternative 2. While the Proposed Action will close “only 14.3 miles” of the 525 miles of snowmobile trail in this area, this closure will effectively eliminate important small links within the overall trail network and consequently eliminate connectivity for significantly larger portions of the trail system.

While the Proposed Action would eliminate snowmobile trails across the SPNM areas, it would not close summer ORV trails across the same parcels of land. This defies logic and further demonstrates the flawed reasoning and motivations behind choosing Alternative 2 as the Proposed Action.

The SEIS clearly proves there is no duplication of efforts in providing snowmobiling or firearm hunting opportunities in Michigan; therefore all existing opportunities are important and should be continued.

Michigan has the largest number of registered snowmobiles in the U.S. yet, on a per capita basis, the fewest miles of snowmobile trails. All existing trails on these forests are critical to meeting the high demand for snowmobile trails in Michigan. We need more opportunities, not less.

National Forests are to be enjoyed for multiple recreation uses; be very cautious about excluding public use based upon subjective positions or bias of a few toward other legitimate recreation use.

After the Comment Process

The Draft SEIS will be published in the Federal Register within the next few weeks. Comments will be taken on it through mid-December.

Once the comment process is complete, the Forest Service will take all comments, both in favor of the ban and against the ban, and consider them in their decision. The Forest Service will then come up with their recommendation. They will take that recommendation back before the issuing judge for his approval. We are working hard to make sure that this recommendation keeps these areas open to snowmobiling and firearms hunting. We also realize that once this recommendation is made and the judge makes his decision, lawsuits will more than likely be filed. Remember it was a lawsuit that started this entire process -- Meister v. USDA Forest Service Court Case.

To Find Out More


Visit the MSA Web site at www.msasnow.org to obtain updates, comment information, and links to this process. We will do our best to keep you informed regarding this critical issue. Rest assured those who want us out of our National Forests are doing everything they can to take away our right to recreate on our public lands.

You need to comment on this issue to help fight the proposed closures to snowmobiling and hunting with guns on the Huron-Manistee National Forests!

You Can Provide Comments By:

Mail: Huron-Manistee National Forest, Attn: Ken Arbogast, 1755 S. Mitchell St., Cadillac, MI 49601

Fax: (231) 775-5551

E-mail: comments-eastern-huron-manistee@fs.fed.usThis e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ; the subject line should state: Forest Plan SEIS

March 2011

Many of you are wondering where we are at on the Huron-Manistee National Forest Plan and the Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) that is currently underway at the National Forest Service level. MSA officers have also had several questions in regards to permanent trails, and the use of the Permanent Snowmobile Trails Easement subaccount setup when snowmobile registrations were increased.

Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement

On Sept. 29, 2010, the U.S Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in the case of Meister vs. U.S. Department of Agriculture, ruled that there were deficiencies in the original Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) prepared for the Huron-Manistee Land and Resource Management Plan Revision of 2006. At issue was snowmobiling and hunting “in or near” semi primitive forest areas.

In response to this court decision, on Dec. 28, 2010, the Huron-Manistee National Forests published a Notice of Intent (NOI) to prepare a SEIS. This SEIS is to assess the environmental impacts of a Land and Resource Management Plan (Plan) alternative that would ban firearm hunting and snowmobile use on National Forest lands within and near semi primitive, non motorized management areas.

The Forest Service sought comments on two alternatives – no action or close these areas to hunting and snowmobiling. We have asked you to send your comments, and many of you did. Those out there wishing to keep us out of our National Forests have also sent many comments.

We need to be patient. This is going to be a long process. Comments on the two alternatives were closed on Feb. 11, 2011.

MSA’s complete response can be found on a Web site, www.masnow.org. We will try to keep you informed, but remember we are looking at a 15-month process.

Even the Department of Natural Resources agrees with MSA that “no action” should be taken in regards to hunting and snowmobiling in the Huron-Manistee National Forest. In a letter to the Forest Service, Rodney A. Stokes, DNR Director-designate wrote, “In terms of the two alternatives the Service listed in the SEIS Notice of Intent, the No Action Alternative maintains the integrity of the approved forest plan which we supported relative to Mr. Meister’s appeal in 2006, and we continue to support today.”

The Forest Service will now take all of your comments and come up with action alternatives that will require more comments before any decisions are made. Comments will be sought on those new alternatives sometime in June 2012. I fully expect to be giving another update on this issue in the March 2012 Michigan Snowmobile News. The process takes time, but we have to stay on top of it.
 

polarisrider1

New member
This means we lost so far.

http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/10a0318p-06.pdf Keep in mind that this guy is a lawyer who wants all mechanized anything out of the Forest. His cabin just happens to be in the forest. So his vendeta continues. I ask you to join the MSA to help stop this guy. If he completely wins then expect other land state and federal lands to be closed soon after.
 
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polarisrider1

New member
more insite.

Hunters, snowmobilers and quiet hikers: speak now, or forever hold your peace.


The U.S. Forest Service is accepting public comment through Dec. 21 on four plans developed in response to a successful lawsuit alleging its land management plan favored hunters and snowmobilers over those looking for a quiet experience.

Kurt Meister, a Novi lawyer who has a cottage in Cadillac near the National Forest, successfully appealed a lawsuit to the U.S. Sixth Circuit Court arguing that the Forest Service favored hunters and snowmobilers over quiet users in its 2006 land management plan for Huron-Manistee National Forest. A federal district judge in Detroit had ruled in favor of the Forest Service.

The Forest Service's four alternatives deal only with what are called "semiprimitive nonmotorized" areas, which make up about 67,000 acres, or 7 percent, of the 987,000-acre Huron-Manistee National Forest.

Only one of the four plans would ban gun hunting and snowmobiling in the forest's 14 “semiprimitive nonmotorized” areas, which are defined as spots where visitors would have “little chance of encountering noise by humans,” Huron-Manistee National Forest spokesman Ken Arbogast said.




Most of the areas are too close to roads or private homes to provide a quiet experience, Arbogast said.

“There's a lot of noise in those areas that we cannot control,” he said.

The approximately 987,000-acre Huron-Manistee National Forest stretches across the northern third of the Lower Peninsula. It includes about 12,500 acres in Muskegon County, 111,000 acres in Newaygo County and 53,000 acres in Oceana County.

The semiprimitive nonmotorized areas in question in the Manistee National Forest are around the White River in Oceana County, Condon Lakes West in Newaygo County, Nordhouse Dunes Wilderness and Whalen Lake in Mason County, Bowman Lake in Lake County, the Manistee River in Manistee County, and Briar Hills in Wexford County.

Affected areas in the Huron National Forest are around Wakeley Lake and the south branch of the Au Sable River in Crawford County, Whitewater Creek in Crawford and Oscoda counties, Hoist Lakes and Reid Lake in Alcona County, Cooke Dam in Iosco County and the Au Sable River in Alcona and Iosco counties.
 
Gun Hunter's have access to the land for what, two months?
Snowmobilers have access (weather permitting) to the land for three possibly four months...

The fact is the 'quiet' or 'lame' users have usage 100% of the year. Most of the quiet things are not regulated (besides fishing).
Snowmobilers and Hunters only have access a small portion of the year (15-25% of the year). Look at the regulations, permits, licenses, and laws that follow these two things...
 

Marty

New member
Thanks for the update polarisrider1, we will be at the Southfield meeting 11-01 with as many as I can get to come. Been following this from the start as this is the area we ride the most now days. We sent letters to the USDA Forest Service to voice our objections when this crap first started. A couple weeks ago, I got a package sent priority mail, ($13.20) just to mail it!!!! From a print shop in California, for this high dollar enviromental impact study for the Huron Manistee area, recreational supply and demand analysis, on and on, hundreds of pages, maps, all the study area's. 9000 people got this same package!!!!!!!!!! Point being, this so called lawyer has probably cost the taxpayers a million bucks or more to pay for all this. What a shame, scumbag.
 

eagle1

Well-known member
One can only hope when this idiot is out enjoying his 'quiet' sport' he enjoys the view of a hungry cougar coming his way. :eek:
I can understand people not liking motorsports, noise, ext., but to make everyone conform to your beliefs is just ridiculous.
 

mjkaliszak

New member
Amazing what 1 lawyer can create. This seems to a very complicated case and I can only wonder if this brain storm of his ... is actually " HIS " ??? It almost seems like there may be some other players we do not know about. He must harbor an extreme amount of hatred towards hunters & snowmobiliers ???? This snowmobiling sport ( which we love ) brings millions of dollars of revenue to this state. Something that helps the small businesses. When I didn't live here in Michigan, we always considered it the preferencial snowmobile destination. I thought the National Forests we for all of us to enjoy ?
 

heckler56

Active member
Does this mean that aircraft are not permitted to fly over these areas also?

Public information;
Practice Areas Corporate Law; Securities Law; Mergers and Acquisitions Law; Non-Compete Agreements Law
University Wayne State University, B.A.
Law School Harvard University, J.D.

Admitted 1982
 

uncle_ed

Active member
Amazing what 1 lawyer can create. This seems to a very complicated case and I can only wonder if this brain storm of his ... is actually " HIS " ??? It almost seems like there may be some other players we do not know about. He must harbor an extreme amount of hatred towards hunters & snowmobiliers ???? This snowmobiling sport ( which we love ) brings millions of dollars of revenue to this state. Something that helps the small businesses. When I didn't live here in Michigan, we always considered it the preferencial snowmobile destination. I thought the National Forests we for all of us to enjoy ?

He definety has a hatred for snowmobilers, hunters and anyone who wants to use public land in a way other than a way he sees fit!
 
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favoritos

Well-known member
I bet the forest service loves this guy. He wants them to do a demand analysis for all recreation activies within the forest. He also has worded the demands in a way that could make any analysis time consuming and expensive. User surveys for all recreational participants to determine how they want to use their section of the forest. Whew.

He has created a nightmare for the forest service and the user community. I wonder if someone will make me do a survey on how I want to use Highway 35 the next time I drive?
 

uncle_ed

Active member
Unfortunately from what I read it is the forest service that dropped the ball on this in the first place when they did the last "land and resource management plan" and did not have their ducks in a row so to speak.

Every national forest is subject to a “land and resource management plan[.]”16 U.S.C. § 1604(a). The National Forest Management Act requires each forest’s planto be revised every fifteen years,​
id. § 1604(f)(5), but in practice the interval oftenstretches to twenty. Developing a plan is a formidable process: “The Service mustdevelop its management plans in conjunction with coordinated planning by a specially
designated interdisciplinary team, extensive public participation and comment, andrelated efforts of other federal agencies, state and local governments, and Indian tribes.”​
Sierra Club v. Marita​
, 46 F.3d 606, 609 (7th Cir. 1995) (citing 36 C.F.R. §§ 219.4-219.7). The Service’s own regulations prescribe in great detail the procedures theService must follow in developing a forest plan. Those regulations make clear, as theService itself states in this appeal, that the Service must balance competing uses of the
Forests.

All we can do is move forward and do what we need to do to try and win this battle.
 

polarisrider1

New member
I am not sure exactly were this guys cabin is,but think I have zeroed in on the general location. West of Cadillac, east of Wellston, south of Boon, in the Caberfae ski resort / Lost Pines area. he is in the Manistee Forest and so is my place. This is a very heavily used snowmobile area. He just bought wrong and is now on a power trip for himself is what I gather. I am sure as most (not every) lawyers it is about gaining a claim to fame. Or simply someone tresspassed on his property with a loud sled late at night. not sure, just speculating on what started him on the vendetta.
 
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favoritos

Well-known member
It appears that you are right on uncle_ed. That is essentially how he was able to push this lawsuit by saying that the forest service had not conducted a fully comprehensive usage survey. I'm guessing the forest service is going to have its hands full trying to comply with the lawsuit. Sledders and hunters need to be involved with the process going forward. I find it interesting that the bow and crossbow hunters have been specifically left out of the hunter category.

This type of suit is specifically the reason I am extra polite and appreciative of any multi use trail. We can all use the woods if we use our brains.
 

polarisrider1

New member
It appears that you are right on uncle_ed. That is essentially how he was able to push this lawsuit by saying that the forest service had not conducted a fully comprehensive usage survey. I'm guessing the forest service is going to have its hands full trying to comply with the lawsuit. Sledders and hunters need to be involved with the process going forward. I find it interesting that the bow and crossbow hunters have been specifically left out of the hunter category.

This type of suit is specifically the reason I am extra polite and appreciative of any multi use trail. We can all use the woods if we use our brains.
The guy is going after noise, as we know bow hunters like quite also. This is why my new sled will not get an after market pipe. Stealth is the new fashion. Ordered my winter camo from HMK this morning. (trying to make light of it all). MSA needs all of us if you guys wish to save what we have going for us please join. Lansing (state capital) only understands numbers. Squeaky wheel gets the grease this is how those cowards in Lansing operate. We need more numbers. www.msasnow.org Go to the tool bar on the MSA site to "HMNF Issue" for more info on this. heck the magazine they send you is worth the membership alone.
 
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mjkaliszak

New member
I wish more people realized how true this statement is!!!

Do I get credit for buying a Super Q for my last purchase ?
Some of the cans are too much " jaws " ect.... I must admit I have a "old style " Aaen can on my 07 xrs. Kind of annoying if you clock up big miles and drive all day long but it's not super obnoxious. There are times when driving thru or past residental areas later at night that I take it easy on the hammer. Alright !!! I confess I'm a 16 yr old trapped in a 48 yr old body .... but with a social conscience ! Must contribute the dilemna to all the recreational drug use in my younger days.

Now where is this cabin again ????
 

favoritos

Well-known member
You would be surprised where that cabin is located. It is not really in the forest. Lakeshore. I wonder if he will go after the boats next.
 
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