Manistee-Huron Forest

uncle_ed

Active member
Still Time to Comment on Huron-Manistee National Forest Plan
Last month, the Huron-Manistee National Forests released a Draft Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) for public review and comment. There is precious time remaining to comment on this plan and let the Forest Service know our (snowmobilers') preferred alternative. Comments will be taken until Dec. 21, 2011.
You need to comment on this issue to help fight the proposed closures to snowmobiling and hunting with guns in the Huron-Manistee National Forests! While this debate is over a desire by some for more "quiet" areas in the forests, expectations are unrealistic and show that these people don't understand the true surroundings found within the forests.
A Proposed Ban
The SEIS proposes to ban snowmobiling and gun hunting within 14 Semi-Primitive Non-Motorized Areas (SPNM) on these forests as the result of a legal decision by the 6th U.S. Court of Appeals.
Your MSA staff is in the process of wading through this, 198-page document, to help you better understand how each of the alternatives might affect you.
Here are the four alternatives outlined in the plan with our initial assessment.
ALTERNATIVE # 1 No action alternative.
While this keeps things as is, it doesn't comply with the problems the court case pointed out and probably leaves it open to more legal challenges.
ALTERNATIVE # 2 Proposed action.
This gives Mr. Meister exactly what he wanted, no snowmobiling or firearm hunting in the 14 areas in question. Clearly, MSA strongly opposes this one. Proposed Action Alternative 2 would essentially shut off trail networks both north to south and east to west across the Northern Lower Peninsula. All snowmobile trails which would be closed by Alternative 2 are located on open public roads and should remain open for winter snowmobile trail use.
Proposed Alternative 2 would effectively eliminate important small links within the overall trail network and consequently eliminate connectivity for significantly larger portions of the trail system.
Last month, I wrote that snowmobilers would have trouble getting from Ogemaw Hills to Houghton Lake. While we could still travel this route, our network would be broken with this ban. We would no longer be able to connect to other trails through the Huron National Forest.
ALTERNATIVE # 3 Change management area designation to align with the current uses of the areas. Basically, if you like how things are right now and want that to be the management goal for these 14 areas, this alternative is probably for you. This alternative allows snowmobiling and all firearm use to continue as is. The areas in question should be defined as Semi-Primitive Motorized areas, and kept open to snowmobiling and firearm hunting.
ALTERNATIVE # 4. Change management area designation and manage to provide a less roaded recreation experience. This is the USFS's preferred alternative, which also allows all snowmobiling and firearm hunting to continue as is. However, the new goal for these 14 areas would be to continue to reduce road mileage density in many of the areas. This alternative negatively impacts both snowmobilers and fire arm hunters.
A Personal Letter Carries More Weight Than a Form Letter
The Forest Service received more than 9,000 letters on this issue. We were told that 2,500 were form letters from members of the Fund for Animals. These letters came from all over the world, and were in favor of closing our public lands to snowmobiling and fire arms hunting.
That is why we have to make sure our voices are heard. We have also been told that the Forest Service has decided to classify duplicate form letters as one comment. For example, those 2,500 form letters form the Fund for Animals would now only be considered one comment.
By all means, if your time is limited download the form letter found on MSA's Web site, sign it, and send it in. However, if you have a little time, please write a personal letter. The letter you submit doesn't have to be long and lengthy. You just need to let the Forest Service know that you are in favor of Proposed Action Alternative 3 and opposed to Proposed Action Alternative 2. Just tell the Forest Service that they would be destroying our snowmobile trail network in this area. Tell them that Alternative Action 2 would destroy a snowmobiler's ability to ride cross-country in these areas.
Please also keep in mind that Michigan has the largest number of registered snowmobiles in the U.S. yet, on a per capita basis, the fewest miles of snowmobile trails. All existing trails on these forests are critical to meeting the high demand for snowmobile trails in Michigan. We need more opportunities, not less.
National Forests are to be enjoyed for multiple recreation uses; be very cautious about excluding public use based upon subjective positions or bias of a few toward other legitimate recreation use.
Once Comments are Received
Once the comment process is complete, the Forest Service will take all comments, both in favor of the ban and against the ban, and consider them in their decision. Remember form letters are collected, piled and considered one comment, either for or against.
The Forest Service will then come up with their recommendation. They will take that recommendation back before the issuing judge for his approval. We are working hard to make sure that this recommendation keeps these areas open to snowmobiling and firearms hunting. We also realize that once this recommendation is made and the judge makes his decision, lawsuits will more than likely be filed. Remember it was a lawsuit that started this entire process -- Meister v. USDA Forest Service Court Case. We will, more than likely be talking about this issue for months to come.
For more information
For more information about this process, call the Huron-Manistee National Forests office, at (231) 775-2421 to request a CD of the SEIS documents. You can also visit the Forest Service Web site at www.fs.fed.us/; select Huron-Manistee from the "By Name" menu at the top right of the page and hit "Go." Once the Huron-Manistee page opens, click on "Forest Plan SEIS" under Quick Links at the top right of the page. The Land and Resources Management page will open, which contains the "Draft SEIS PDF Suite" files with all SEIS documents.
Visit the MSA Web site at www.msasnow.org to obtain updates, comment information, and links to this process. We are doing our best to keep you informed regarding this critical issue. Rest assured those who want us out of our National Forests are doing everything they can to take away our right to recreate on our public lands.
 

fredster

New member
The MSA email didn't mention the public hearings this week in West Michigan......Manistee tonight (too late!) and both Grand Rapids (Crowne Plaza, 57000 E. 28th Street) and Baldwin (Pleasant Plains Township Hall, 885 E. Eighth) Thursday night, 4-8 PM. I am stopping by the Crowne Plaza tomorrow night to have a talk with my good friends from the NFS....wish me luck.
 

fredster

New member
Google found his Novi address, it was in an email that was submitted as a court record.

Kurt Meister
22581 Moorgate St
Novi, MI 48374
(248) 347-4273

If you read the first paragraph of the email he sent, there's more to this than just "quiet".....he's a genuine tree hugger.

contentanalysisgroup.com/data/18-651.pdf

He also tried to get the MCCCT trail relocated and lost that battle......

http://data.ecosystem-management.or...TYms1cVpXNU9OVlJXVWxkYWF6RlZZWHBLVGxwNk1Eaz0=

So sad......to have nothing better to do than to submit lawsuits to screw with people who have done nothing wrong.....
 

polarisrider1

New member
Google found his Novi address, it was in an email that was submitted as a court record.

Kurt Meister
22581 Moorgate St
Novi, MI 48374
(248) 347-4273

If you read the first paragraph of the email he sent, there's more to this than just "quiet".....he's a genuine tree hugger.

contentanalysisgroup.com/data/18-651.pdf

He also tried to get the MCCCT trail relocated and lost that battle......

http://data.ecosystem-management.or...TYms1cVpXNU9OVlJXVWxkYWF6RlZZWHBLVGxwNk1Eaz0=

So sad......to have nothing better to do than to submit lawsuits to screw with people who have done nothing wrong.....
Well since about 80,000 of us are going to Novi for the snow show we may as well go visit. Map quest is a wonderful thing. I did see mention to this case on Snowest also, so word is getting out.
 

polarisrider1

New member
Only 6.57 miles directly south of the snow show. Yard looks like a forest in a housing development. Google earth let me zoom down his chimney to see if he burns wood in his fireplace. Wondering about the noise from the school behind his house??
 
Last edited:

uncle_ed

Active member
Huron Manistee—Never Quite Quiet
November 3rd, 2011 by Amy Trotter.

As I continue to review the details of the new Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) generated by the United States Forest Service (USFS), I’m learning a lot of new details to this story that I’d like to pass along. Hopefully you can use some of these nuggets in your public comments (see this previous blog for how to submit them by Dec. 21)

You are probably aware, this entire Huron-Manistee National Forest saga was brought on by one man, Mr. Kurt Meister, in a lawsuit against the USFS for failing to provide enough “quiet” areas for “quiet” recreation. He targets firearm hunters and snowmobiles as particularly egregious to his ears while he hikes or cross country skis.

What I learned last night at the USFS Open House is interesting though; from the sound maps (see part E in the SEIS link above) created by the USFS that identify all the possible noise sources that are beyond their control, you can clearly see that the expectation of silence is unrealistic. I can’t get the song “Come on Feel the Noise” by Quiet Riot out of my head ever since I saw these maps.

There are several sources of possible noise in the areas or within a one mile range that the USFS cannot control and that will not be changed, even if firearm hunting and snowmobiling is banned in the 14 areas under review, such as:

•Military training runs and firing ranges
•Railroads and State Highways
•County roads, which allow ORV and snowmobile use on most road shoulders.
•Active oil/gas well sites and pipelines
•Utility lines
•National Forest Service Recreation Sites
•Nearby snowmobile trails
•Other NF land where firearm hunting will continue to be allowed
Also right smack dab in the middle of these areas are private land holdings and houses; these landowners will continue to be able to enjoy whatever form of recreation and activities they choose on their property and many of them are firearm hunters. For some, hunting is the very reason they have held on to this property for so many years.

So is “Alternative 2″ in the SEIS (Mr. Meister’s proposal) banning the firearm hunter from nearly 70,000 acres going to do anything to make the area quieter? Not really. There is development, there are roads, and there are still going to be hunters and snowmobiles all around these so called quiet areas. These are all the things that are needed to keep a rural economy going, and Alternative 2 is only going to hurt that economy.

Occasional gunshots are expected by everyone during hunting season—it’s Michigan, top 3 in the nation for licensed deer hunters. And I’d like to say, that sound is a welcomed sound—in fact, music to my ears.
 

fredster

New member
Uncle_Ed and all,

I attended the USFS meeting at the Crowne Plaza today. The FS guys were very helpful and I learned the same information about the general noise levels of these areas - there is basically just too much and too many activities to ever ensure 100% quiet! I asked the FS guys how many complaints they have had about noise. As part of their study they talked to many difference local law enforcement agencies that cover both forests and they said that NO ONE HAS EVER FILED A NOISE COMPLAINT! Except this Kurt Meister dude. So it truly is one person on the 'quiet' side. The FS guys also said he DOES have a cabin in the forest near Caberfae....the stupid part, his cabin is not located anywhere near one of the quiet areas....seems like he has the money he could just buy land that butts up to one of the "quiet" zones but oh no that would be way too logical for a lawyer I guess?

I asked the FS Guys if Meister's daughters ever complained about noise and if the FS had ever had a chance to discuss their noise 'fears' and they just smiled and said no. I also learned that Meister originally proposed that 200,000 acres (that's 1/3 of these forests) be designated semi-primitive! When that didn't go through he asked for a 'quite buffer zone' along both sides of the National Trail as well as all quiet zones along desinated "scenic rivers" in the Huron-Manistee NF. That one obviously didn't go through either so this guy just keeps looking for a way to drive in his wedge. Someone needs to buy him some (*^# ear plugs.

I asked what happens next and they said that they are seeking public opinion and will make their decision based on majority opinion. They want to know your preferred alternative (3 or 4 please!) and which option you do not want (that's easy Alternative 2). They also want to know your concerns such as impact on economy, your hobbies, lifestyle, what you do in the national forests, etc. So keep sending in the letters and emails and make sure our voice is heard.

BTW while I was there it was me, one ATV rider and about 5-6 hunters....I was there from 4:15-5:00PM and attendance was pretty light! I hope more people stopped in later, we need to raise our voices and be heard. Last comment, without them saying it it was pretty clear from the comments that the FS Guys support the existing plans and just want to put this behind them.....they have to maintain a certain level of professionalism but I got the distrinct impression that they will be just as happy to defeat this guy as we will.
 

polarisrider1

New member
Uncle_Ed and all,

I attended the USFS meeting at the Crowne Plaza today. The FS guys were very helpful and I learned the same information about the general noise levels of these areas - there is basically just too much and too many activities to ever ensure 100% quiet! I asked the FS guys how many complaints they have had about noise. As part of their study they talked to many difference local law enforcement agencies that cover both forests and they said that NO ONE HAS EVER FILED A NOISE COMPLAINT! Except this Kurt Meister dude. So it truly is one person on the 'quiet' side. The FS guys also said he DOES have a cabin in the forest near Caberfae....the stupid part, his cabin is not located anywhere near one of the quiet areas....seems like he has the money he could just buy land that butts up to one of the "quiet" zones but oh no that would be way too logical for a lawyer I guess?

I asked the FS Guys if Meister's daughters ever complained about noise and if the FS had ever had a chance to discuss their noise 'fears' and they just smiled and said no. I also learned that Meister originally proposed that 200,000 acres (that's 1/3 of these forests) be designated semi-primitive! When that didn't go through he asked for a 'quite buffer zone' along both sides of the National Trail as well as all quiet zones along desinated "scenic rivers" in the Huron-Manistee NF. That one obviously didn't go through either so this guy just keeps looking for a way to drive in his wedge. Someone needs to buy him some (*^# ear plugs.

I asked what happens next and they said that they are seeking public opinion and will make their decision based on majority opinion. They want to know your preferred alternative (3 or 4 please!) and which option you do not want (that's easy Alternative 2). They also want to know your concerns such as impact on economy, your hobbies, lifestyle, what you do in the national forests, etc. So keep sending in the letters and emails and make sure our voice is heard.

BTW while I was there it was me, one ATV rider and about 5-6 hunters....I was there from 4:15-5:00PM and attendance was pretty light! I hope more people stopped in later, we need to raise our voices and be heard. Last comment, without them saying it it was pretty clear from the comments that the FS Guys support the existing plans and just want to put this behind them.....they have to maintain a certain level of professionalism but I got the distrinct impression that they will be just as happy to defeat this guy as we will.
Thank you for the information concerning the meeting.
 
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