polarisrider1
New member
really? tell us more.
Manistee-Huron Forest
- Thread starter polarisrider1
- Start date
Guys....here is a recent news article.....including a picture of the idiot that started all this.
http://ipr.interlochen.org/ipr-news-features/episode/11394
On the MSA website is a form letter for you to copy to word, print, sign and send. It includes very specific langage on which alternative MSA would prefer. It would basically change some non-motorized primative lands to motorized primative lands keeping the trail system intact. Please take the 10-15 minutes needed to send this letter to the forest service. My wife, son and I have already sent our copies in. I will also be attending the Forest Service meeting in Grand Rapids on 11/2. I intend to wear my best suit and tie just to show these folks that us snowmobilers can be just as serious about this stuff as a wacko lawyer from Novi.
I can't seem to find the address now but when I looked it up before I did seem to find that he has a place on one of the big lakes at Cadillac. Why he can't go to some other quiet part of the national forest is beyond me.........
http://ipr.interlochen.org/ipr-news-features/episode/11394
On the MSA website is a form letter for you to copy to word, print, sign and send. It includes very specific langage on which alternative MSA would prefer. It would basically change some non-motorized primative lands to motorized primative lands keeping the trail system intact. Please take the 10-15 minutes needed to send this letter to the forest service. My wife, son and I have already sent our copies in. I will also be attending the Forest Service meeting in Grand Rapids on 11/2. I intend to wear my best suit and tie just to show these folks that us snowmobilers can be just as serious about this stuff as a wacko lawyer from Novi.
I can't seem to find the address now but when I looked it up before I did seem to find that he has a place on one of the big lakes at Cadillac. Why he can't go to some other quiet part of the national forest is beyond me.........
polarisrider1
New member
The part about the cross country skiers makes me laugh. I know exactly where these trails are. The skiers are on the snowmobile trail all the time because they are packed and groomed. Their trail is nothing more than blue dots spray painted on trees, well how go is that? They would make excellent "off trail" routes but are off limits to snowmobilers and that is fine. Sounds like what it boils down to is "His daughter was scared by gun shots while walking in the woods?" And Daddy to the rescue. The guy wants to be a man for the first time in his feeble life and this is how he feels it is done. Laim.
eagle1
Well-known member
Hey polarisrider, sounds like a beautiful area for a LARGE,Week long Harley rally.
polarisrider1
New member
Well we could all meet at the "Blessing" of the bike in Baldwin next year. I host a nice size crowd for that. and we could go seek his place out for a bon fire and have a good ole boy chat with him. I could introduce him to Vance and Hines, and good old Jack Daniels. If that don't work then Bubba will.................never mind.Hey polarisrider, sounds like a beautiful area for a LARGE,Week long Harley rally.
windingtrailgal
Active member
OK, PR1, spent my hard earned dollars on an MSA membership per your info on here throughtout the years on the good works they have done for snowmobiling.
Will print up 2 of those forms and get them mailed in. Maybe I'll print up a few more since I have a bro in law in town, another coming and then the mom and pop in laws next week!!
Smart a$$d lawyer didn't do his due diligence on his property if he was looking for total peace and serenity. What an a$$...he doesn't like it so he wants to make sure no one else gets to snowmobile. Not your forest, ya jackwagon!
Will print up 2 of those forms and get them mailed in. Maybe I'll print up a few more since I have a bro in law in town, another coming and then the mom and pop in laws next week!!
Smart a$$d lawyer didn't do his due diligence on his property if he was looking for total peace and serenity. What an a$$...he doesn't like it so he wants to make sure no one else gets to snowmobile. Not your forest, ya jackwagon!
heavy_equip1969
New member
I went to this last year. It was myself and 2 other hunters. Yes I will show up again and see what they have to say
and report back. I will also get a MSA membership.
and report back. I will also get a MSA membership.
polarisrider1
New member
Love you guys! Thank you for joining MSA. The Michigan Snowmobile Association is totally working for us. I have been a member since 1985. Problem with this guy is He will keep going until he gets all state land shut down to anything but hiking. suspect He will even go after them if they startle his family on a "hike".
polarisrider1
New member
Annual meeting Brief:
Bill Manson discussed the Meister-vs-USFS law suit where 13 different areas within the Huron-Manistee Forest could be closed to hunting and snowmobiling, and the 4 current alternatives being offered by the USFS. EVERYONE CONCERNED should read up on the alternatives and submit their comments to the Forest Service by the December 21, 2011 deadline. “Form” letters are accepted but are not encouraged! For more info on the very important case, see the October issue of the our magazine “Michigan Snowmobile News”
Bill Manson discussed the Meister-vs-USFS law suit where 13 different areas within the Huron-Manistee Forest could be closed to hunting and snowmobiling, and the 4 current alternatives being offered by the USFS. EVERYONE CONCERNED should read up on the alternatives and submit their comments to the Forest Service by the December 21, 2011 deadline. “Form” letters are accepted but are not encouraged! For more info on the very important case, see the October issue of the our magazine “Michigan Snowmobile News”
polarisrider1
New member
More news: MSA representatives have become involved in the White Pine Trail (Cadillac to Leroy) issue wear normal snowmobile wear on the trail last season is being called "damage" by other groups. These groups are starting a movement to try to ban studs on paved rail trails in Michigan. If successful, this movement could impact several other paved rail trails in our state.
windingtrailgal
Active member
PR1 - confused (sure, what's new? ). I thought the form letters were wanted because they had the specific wording. Did I misunderstand this???
wtg
). I thought the form letters were wanted because they had the specific wording. Did I misunderstand this???wtg
polarisrider1
New member
Form letters are fine, But an original from you is even better. kinda like canned or fresh veggies. I go for the fresh.PR1 - confused (sure, what's new?
wtg
chords
Active member
I'm only familiar with the Huron National area.
Hoist and Reid Lakes are and have been closed for many years to motorized. It's hiking/X-country ski , hunting only. Beautiful and quiet back in there. And the Au Sable in Alcona and Iosco covers ALOT of miles. Most if not all of is owned by Consumers Energy inc Cooke Dam and has been off limits to motor vehicles forever but is available for public use.(Miles of illegal power line riding. see power line thread)) The State has developed many overlooks and campgrounds along this stretch of the Highbanks.
Ive done a little reading on this and I'm not sure what is trying to be accomplished beyond what has already been establishred. You have to know that these Nat Forests are intertwined with private land.
anonomoose
New member
I don't want to start a fight or deviate from the premise of this thread, but some self examination might be in order here.
This attorney is ticked off!
Why? Maybe he is a nut case, or just wants the whole forest to himself.
But maybe just maybe, some sledders who have that need for noisey loud pipes, running well into the night, got this fellow going strong.
There is always a cause and effect relationship with everything we do. Perhaps, there is more to this story than we understand or care to know?
I am wondering if anyone has read an account anywhere of "his side of the story" so that perhaps any future issues could be better understood.
In the meantime, if for no other reason than which is self evident here, we need to do a bit of self examination and try to correct those things that might very well be pushing buttons that we don't want pushed. WE are a minority group, aren't we? We could be causing this issue to get pushed to the front by not being considerate of our fellow out door users.
This sort of thing is happening all over the country...perhaps all over the world, and people get motivated for all sorts of reasons.
So maybe some trespassing occurred, or very well piped sleds were making merry without regard to those around them....and perhaps we need to own up to some of these issues and work WITHIN to keep them from become a tidal wave working against the industry?
Just how badly do yah need those loud pipes? Maybe YOUR ears are not the only ones affected by the noise!
No poison arrows please, and if your gunna swing away at me...please use boxing gloves so my noise doesn't get broken....I hate that when that happens.
This attorney is ticked off!
Why? Maybe he is a nut case, or just wants the whole forest to himself.
But maybe just maybe, some sledders who have that need for noisey loud pipes, running well into the night, got this fellow going strong.
There is always a cause and effect relationship with everything we do. Perhaps, there is more to this story than we understand or care to know?
I am wondering if anyone has read an account anywhere of "his side of the story" so that perhaps any future issues could be better understood.
In the meantime, if for no other reason than which is self evident here, we need to do a bit of self examination and try to correct those things that might very well be pushing buttons that we don't want pushed. WE are a minority group, aren't we? We could be causing this issue to get pushed to the front by not being considerate of our fellow out door users.
This sort of thing is happening all over the country...perhaps all over the world, and people get motivated for all sorts of reasons.
So maybe some trespassing occurred, or very well piped sleds were making merry without regard to those around them....and perhaps we need to own up to some of these issues and work WITHIN to keep them from become a tidal wave working against the industry?
Just how badly do yah need those loud pipes? Maybe YOUR ears are not the only ones affected by the noise!
No poison arrows please, and if your gunna swing away at me...please use boxing gloves so my noise doesn't get broken....I hate that when that happens.
polarisrider1
New member
Very well put. I suspect there was tresspassing issues by some snowmobilers. It would be nice to here the other side of the story. So far I have not located anything as to the reason why the Man started this. Is it retaliation?
windingtrailgal
Active member
Moose - always the devil's advocate. But making us all think...
I know PR1 stated that he wasn't sure of what happened with this man...even stated that trespassing could be an issue. And let's even state that pipes are an issue. I stated that he should have done a little better due diligence when researching where he was going to purchase his cabin/home.
Let's say he's fighting mad because he feels like he was wronged by some snowmobilers...
Still disagree with his tactics of trying to get snowmobiling banned from this area. There are other tactics he could have taken than an all out ban for what maybe/possibly/could have been done by a small percentage of snowmobilers.
That I do disagree with.
It is hard to know what to think if we don't know his side of the story. Maybe he should have bothered to tell it. In any of the articles that I've read from hereplus links regarding this issue, I've never seen that he's bothered to state it anywhere. If his issue is that he feels wronged, then all he has to do is tell everyone why he feels wronged. Am sure the MSA would much rather help this guy find a solution rather than going down this long and winding trail of legal crap.
But making us all think...I know PR1 stated that he wasn't sure of what happened with this man...even stated that trespassing could be an issue. And let's even state that pipes are an issue. I stated that he should have done a little better due diligence when researching where he was going to purchase his cabin/home.
Let's say he's fighting mad because he feels like he was wronged by some snowmobilers...
Still disagree with his tactics of trying to get snowmobiling banned from this area. There are other tactics he could have taken than an all out ban for what maybe/possibly/could have been done by a small percentage of snowmobilers.
That I do disagree with.
It is hard to know what to think if we don't know his side of the story. Maybe he should have bothered to tell it. In any of the articles that I've read from hereplus links regarding this issue, I've never seen that he's bothered to state it anywhere. If his issue is that he feels wronged, then all he has to do is tell everyone why he feels wronged. Am sure the MSA would much rather help this guy find a solution rather than going down this long and winding trail of legal crap.
This is a thoughtful post, but I am skeptical of those types. If you look at what has happened at Yellowstone, we now have snowmobiles that are cleaner than most cars (ski doo ACE) and they still aren't happy and probably won't be until there are none allowed.
they call it Passive recreation all the left wing green whack jobs are using the phrase.the green loons want every thing banned except running through the woods nude touching bear poop to see if it is still warm and rubbing birch bark on beavers .
the guy in charge of our local park system is one of those loons who loves to talk about passive recreation.it drives him crazy that our trails are grandfathered in.his latest tactic is not letting us clear brush or cut low branches so the groomer can get through.he claims it is disturbing the natural habitat.some one went out last sat with a poll saw and cut all the low branches that were hitting the roof last yr don't know who would disobey a direct order like that.funny ting was last yr about a week before trail opening some one cut 3 big trees down right over the trail. I am sure the park service had nothing to do with that must have been the closest neighbors about 1 mi away who did not like the traffic
the guy in charge of our local park system is one of those loons who loves to talk about passive recreation.it drives him crazy that our trails are grandfathered in.his latest tactic is not letting us clear brush or cut low branches so the groomer can get through.he claims it is disturbing the natural habitat.some one went out last sat with a poll saw and cut all the low branches that were hitting the roof last yr don't know who would disobey a direct order like that.funny ting was last yr about a week before trail opening some one cut 3 big trees down right over the trail. I am sure the park service had nothing to do with that must have been the closest neighbors about 1 mi away who did not like the traffic
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Guys, just fired off the following Email to the Forest Service in support of Alternative 3 which is the best long-term solution for us....had sent in the form letter then read that ALL form letters would be counted together so decided to send in my own version....feel free to borrow those pieces you see fit to use in your version....and send it to: 'comments-eastern-huron-manistee@fs.fed.us'
Mr. Kenneth Arbogast,
I am writing to provide my comments about the Draft Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) for the Huron-Manistee National Forests. I have reviewed the draft statement and the alternatives. First of all some information about me. I am a long-term Michigan resident and state and federal taxpayer. I live in the Grand Rapids area and also own and pay taxes on property near the Manistee National Forest. My family and I are avid snowmobilers, members of the Trailriders snowmobile club and most of our winter weekends are spent enjoying the Manistee National Forest and the snowmobile trail system that connects Baldwin, Reed City, Cadillac, Irons and points in between. Losing ANY part of this trail system would significantly and negatively impact my winter recreation opportunities as well as the value of my property. I am quite obviously in favor of maintaining the existing snowmobile trail in this area, and frankly, would prefer to see MORE trails and National Forest access for snowmobilers.
Having reviewed the Alternatives, I SUPPORT ALTERNATIVE 3. The areas in question should be redefined as Semi-Primitive Motorized areas and all areas should remain open to existing snowmobile use and firearm hunting. There are no duplicated efforts in providing snowmobiling or firearm hunting opportunities in Michigan so all existing opportunities are important and should be continued through the adoption of Alternative 3.
I AM STRONGLY OPPOSED TO ALTERNATIVE 2. It would be wrong to ban snowmobile use and firearm hunting in existing SPNM areas. The SEIS analysis shows it would not result in increased quietness. The SEIS analysis also shows that less than 27% of existing SPNM areas are located beyond a ½ mile from open public roads; therefore these areas clearly fail to meet ‘remoteness’ conditions expected to be found in true SPNM areas. These areas should NOT be classified as SPNM. Additionally, all snowmobile trails that would be closed by Alternative 2 are located on open public roads and should remain open for winter snowmobile trail use. It makes absolutely no sense to me to ban one form of transportation and recreation from these roads while allowing automobile, motorcycle and ORV traffic for 12 months each year……Alternative 2 does not guarantee any change in the conditions or experiences people would have in these areas, and the existing PUBLIC ROADWAYS make it difficult if not impossible to provide SPNM in the existing designated areas…..Alternative 2 is not at all logical!
Our National Forests were intended to be enjoyed for multiple recreation uses; it’s my understanding that the requested ban is supported essentially by ONE Michigan resident’s lawsuit: whereas 7000 or more Michigan residents have previously indicated their support for multiple uses…..I don’t believe access to these areas should be restricted based the subjective view and bias of one person versus the thousands of others legitimate users and uses of public lands.
The winter months are already difficult for many businesses in the area(s) in questions. Snowmobiling brings work and money into the area and must be continued for the economic well-being of the people who live, work and provide services in these areas.
I sincerely hope that you do the right thing and select Alternative 3. Thank you for the opportunity to comment and please add me to your contact list as this SEIS process continues.
Sincerely,
Fred Gross
10448 Shaner Avenue NE
Rockford, MI. 49341
Mr. Kenneth Arbogast,
I am writing to provide my comments about the Draft Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement (SEIS) for the Huron-Manistee National Forests. I have reviewed the draft statement and the alternatives. First of all some information about me. I am a long-term Michigan resident and state and federal taxpayer. I live in the Grand Rapids area and also own and pay taxes on property near the Manistee National Forest. My family and I are avid snowmobilers, members of the Trailriders snowmobile club and most of our winter weekends are spent enjoying the Manistee National Forest and the snowmobile trail system that connects Baldwin, Reed City, Cadillac, Irons and points in between. Losing ANY part of this trail system would significantly and negatively impact my winter recreation opportunities as well as the value of my property. I am quite obviously in favor of maintaining the existing snowmobile trail in this area, and frankly, would prefer to see MORE trails and National Forest access for snowmobilers.
Having reviewed the Alternatives, I SUPPORT ALTERNATIVE 3. The areas in question should be redefined as Semi-Primitive Motorized areas and all areas should remain open to existing snowmobile use and firearm hunting. There are no duplicated efforts in providing snowmobiling or firearm hunting opportunities in Michigan so all existing opportunities are important and should be continued through the adoption of Alternative 3.
I AM STRONGLY OPPOSED TO ALTERNATIVE 2. It would be wrong to ban snowmobile use and firearm hunting in existing SPNM areas. The SEIS analysis shows it would not result in increased quietness. The SEIS analysis also shows that less than 27% of existing SPNM areas are located beyond a ½ mile from open public roads; therefore these areas clearly fail to meet ‘remoteness’ conditions expected to be found in true SPNM areas. These areas should NOT be classified as SPNM. Additionally, all snowmobile trails that would be closed by Alternative 2 are located on open public roads and should remain open for winter snowmobile trail use. It makes absolutely no sense to me to ban one form of transportation and recreation from these roads while allowing automobile, motorcycle and ORV traffic for 12 months each year……Alternative 2 does not guarantee any change in the conditions or experiences people would have in these areas, and the existing PUBLIC ROADWAYS make it difficult if not impossible to provide SPNM in the existing designated areas…..Alternative 2 is not at all logical!
Our National Forests were intended to be enjoyed for multiple recreation uses; it’s my understanding that the requested ban is supported essentially by ONE Michigan resident’s lawsuit: whereas 7000 or more Michigan residents have previously indicated their support for multiple uses…..I don’t believe access to these areas should be restricted based the subjective view and bias of one person versus the thousands of others legitimate users and uses of public lands.
The winter months are already difficult for many businesses in the area(s) in questions. Snowmobiling brings work and money into the area and must be continued for the economic well-being of the people who live, work and provide services in these areas.
I sincerely hope that you do the right thing and select Alternative 3. Thank you for the opportunity to comment and please add me to your contact list as this SEIS process continues.
Sincerely,
Fred Gross
10448 Shaner Avenue NE
Rockford, MI. 49341