Traveled from Ohio into Michigan on Highway 127. From the Ohio border to the town of Hudson, it was smooth sailing on brand new asphalt. The thing that caught my attention was the poured cement curbs at every intersection. Even the smallest dirt roads had curbs on all four corners. Curbs only covered the corner radius and no farther. ***
Michigan has more money......
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thunderstruck88
New member
just came back from the Smokey Mountains they are paving every road down there in sight makes you wonder where all our hard earned money goes to ummmmm
Yup. That's what it is supposed to do. The roads weren't built by people in China, they were built by Americans.
While not defending the stimulus package ('cause I think the execution of it has been horrible) if it got American workers to build American roads with American asphalt and American concrete then that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Government orders a road, engineering firm has to employ engineers to design, construction firm has to hire people to build it, asphalt plant has to hire to make the asphalt, etc.
You may not like this expenditure of your tax dollars AND I AM NOT TRYING TO DEFEND IT. But if the government builds infrastrucutre it drives American employment because the roads and buildings can't be made in Taiwan, and they will be made by the people who have lost their jobs as the manufacturing segment of our economy has collapsed.
You guys are probably younger than I, but take a quick look at this-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_Progress_Administration
I remember as a kid in St.Paul that a lot of the roads were brick. I asked my dad why there were brick roads, and he told me they were "WPA roads"
If they were going to use it to stimulate, then it should have all been spent immediately. It is just a damn slush fund for the government to use for pet projects. now POTUS is asking for more money for infrastructure improvements. What the **** was the stimulus for? Why is HALF of it still sitting there? Why is the new stimulus money going to be spent over 6YEARS?!? I'll tell you why: to prop up the union tradesmen. Have to pay them back for those votes.
Couldn't agree with you more!
polarisrider1
New member
So what is the complaint? Our roads and bridges for the most part are crap and truly need repair. Do you prefer pot holes in the road on your way to Walmart to buy China made crap?
anonomoose
New member
Two quick points.
First if they got the lip service out of the huge monstrous funds the stimulus was "supposed" to be paid out for but didn't actually have to use it, then the administration will look pretty impressive if the economy got going without spending it. Of course appearances it seems, only goes so far, eh?
And secondly correct me if I am wrong, but the road industry has NEVER been the industry with no work. Housing and other main street (not wall street) business has been the hardest hit and therefore needs the most stimulus.
If that is true then building railroad tracks, and widening roads and bridges is a very long trickle down to get to those who work in the housing industry (which has always been pegged at 1 in 5 jobs.)
Factually, each administration has gotten the "goods" for the constituency that put them in the cat-bird-seat. This one is no different and they do know who voted for them along with some others who actually hoped that their vote would make a difference.
(Detect some minor disapproval.... for ALL administrations and the last 25 years or so, who get in, and never forget to feather the bed of those who helped them get there, ...in my voice)
It is no longer what's best for the country so much as what is best for those who helped you get to where you are.
Maybe I am just waking up to reality...I don't know!
The solution is term limits. I know the POTUS will still be the same situation, but fresh faces in congress would definitely help keep administrations in check. When your only job is getting elected, you don't worry about the all the people, just the powerful ones.
the WPA workers from everything I have been told from old timers were not the cream of the crop or the American work force.not all I know but allot were .we got in to the great depression because of fed sticking there nose in the pot again.in 1913 the fed reserve was put in place to keep guys like JP Morgan more or less controlling the banks because the fed thought they could do a better job.even though JP and his investors stopped the recession of 1907 buy injecting money in to the markets.so with the fed in control of the so called free market they kept intrest artificially low. and that did help the boom of the 20s but also overinflated product value .so that increased workers wages and inflated workers and their unions of there self worth.well now our USA built products were not being bought buy foreign countries because they were to expensive.but those countries were still importing there cheaper products in to the USA.so now the fed {Smote/Hawley tariff act }steps in again and puts a huge tax on imported products in order to keep Americas products at overinflated prices . well now no countries were importing the USA overinflated products so us imports slowed to a grinding halt. at the same time the fed reserve dropped the money flow buy 1/3.not the first time in the early 1900 that the economy was in a rescission most lasted less than 2 yrs but now we have fed control looking out for us.JP Rockefeller said at the time. These days when many are discouraged.in the 93 yrs of my life depressions have come and gone.Prosperity has always returned and will again.buy attempting to Immediately recover with out swallowing the bitter pill of two hard yrs Hoover and Roosevelt have actually prolonged the pain.so now we have the great savior Roosevelt starts up the new deal we all talk about. the great new deal {well not me} where he orders crops destroyed to justify artificially high prices of food despite the need for cheep food.started agencies to break up black markets selling black market cheep goods the only way they could make money was under the table non union no tax ect so now the factories are shut down because they cant sell their goods to even the black market even though people are buying there goods now more people are laid off.now Roosevelt has the wpa guys out working{well sort of] in the woods building roads creating no wealth prolonging the great depression many yrs any of this sound familiar .the fed reserve then the new deal was the beginning of the end.but the wpa guys did build some nice stone walls in the middle of nowhere in the chippewa nat forest up buy my cabin why not sure but they are nice
Not me. Where did I say something that implied that? If I defended the union, I may go eat my gun
Not me. Where did I say something that implied that? If I defended the union, I may go eat my gun
Sorry! I probably read too much into your comment about them "first coming for the trade unionist but I did nothing...." you know the old saying about ASSume...
I was suprised, based on many of your other posts I usually agree with you!
Forget I said anything.
I see. That is a quote from Nazi Germany, WWII. The unions, along with pretty much any other group that posed an organizational threat to complete control by the Nazi's, were outlawed.
Before the union guys start pointing to the nazi's being like our political "right" in this country as the reason we need the unions, remember, they were for total government control, just like the communists. We (the libertatrian/conservative) want LESS government.
anonomoose
New member
Wow...I actually read that, and understood some of it....and now my head hurts.
mjkaliszak
New member
Now we are getting closer to the root of the problem. It's like our government & corporations have sold out the middle class and small business owners. Everyone is digging in just to try to survive. How about we use the stimulus money to drop taxes, encourage business & manufacturing to stay in the US . " bite the bitter pill " and try to turn our country around. Wait a second... the stimulus money is borrowed tax money !!!! Which we don't have, we are leveraging our childrens future. At least they will have nice roads to drive on. We need a revolution in this country.
thunderstruck88
New member
We are off to see the WIAZARD of Chinamart Watch out for Dorothy and Toto and the scarecrow, Lion and the the tinman Hi Ho Hi HO Where is the wicked witch? lol and the stimulus money to me is like the song DIRTY LAUNDRY but instead DIRTYMONEY and thats what we are using to pretend to make jobs so it looks like the economy is getting better and it AIN"T !!! VOTE IN NOVEMER FOLKS OUR ECONOMY AND OUR COUNTRY NEEDS ALL THE HELP IT CAN GET!!!!!!!!!!
Reducing taxes is a curious concept right now. As you say, the stimulus is borrowed money, so using that money to reduce taxes would be exactly the same as going to an ATM, charging a $200 cash advance on your Visa card, then writing a $200 check to Visa.
Remember, taxes are the government's income. If you reduce taxes without reducing spending, you increase debt. One factoid often glossed over with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts in January 2011 is that if the Bush tax cuts are maintained past their expiration date it will add yet another $3.7 trillion to the debt over the next 10 years. Why would you want to reduce income when debt needs to be paid off?
Well, if you leave more money in the hands of businesses and consumers then they buy more, right? Well, it was right up until about 24 months ago, but now a curious thing has happened. The American consumer has stopped buying, and has become frugal. From the Washington Post 8/4/2010-
Consumers slashed their credit card debt levels by nearly $1,700 per household in 2009, according to the Federal Reserve, and experts say a down economy will continue to leave borrowers with a distaste for debt.
According to the Fed's monthly G.19 consumer credit report released Friday, credit card balances fell sharply again in December. Americans shed $8.5 billion in debt, marking a record 15th straight month of decline. The report considers various types of consumer debt, including revolving credit -- a loan category comprised almost entirely of credit card debt -- as well as nonrevolving debt, which includes such debt as auto loans, student loans and loans for mobile homes, boats and trailers. Overall, revolving debt fell to $866 billion from a revised total of $874.5 billion in November.
Americans' credit card debt stood at $975.2 billion in September 2008. The 15 monthly declines since then have seen U.S. cardholders eliminate $109.2 billion in credit card debt. That means the average U.S. household with credit card debt -- of which there are roughly 54 million, according to government data -- has eliminated roughly $2,022 in credit card debt during that period.
Also from the Post, same day-
The Commerce Department reported Tuesday that the personal savings rate -- the amount of each paycheck that goes unspent -- jumped to 6.4 percent in June, the highest rate since June 2009. That's a far cry from the heady days of the spending boom when Americans set aside less than 1 percent of their paychecks.
So, the old trickle down, supply side Reagan/Clinton/Bush economic policy might not work. Indications are if you give the American small business or consumer more money through lower taxes (increasing US debt in the process), they will save it or pay down credit card debt. I know if the government gave me $1000 right now I would reduce debt with it, I would not buy anything.
Ahh, you say, then let's reduce government spending to adjust for the tax cuts. Good concept, but that will cause unemployment and economic slowdown as businesses that rely on government spending cut production. This is an interesting column from the Chicago Tribune last week-
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...government-spending-20100908,0,2620256.column
So now you are hearing muted cries to have another stimulus package, which, like a tax cut, increases debt. Will it grow jobs? Well, the last one didn't seem to.
And the interesting thing about this problem is the classic party line battle. One party's policy got us into this mess, the other party's policy has not gotten us out of it. Yet, people think an election will solve it. It won't. I'll bet you an Italian Beef at the Bergland Bay Bar that no matter who wins in November there will be one constant...total federal debt will continue to accelerate.
I feel sorry for Indy500, he's gonna pay for this mess most of his working life.
Sorry for the long post....
I'll keep this short because i am not big on political debates. It seems everyone wants to run the current presidency in to the ground and grant it things are far from perfect in our country right now. How soon everyone forgets that the jobs loss was already a disaster and i for one dont miss paying $4 plus a gallon for gas. So are we saying that its worse to spend tax dollars to generate some jobs than it is to take the money out of every americans pockets every time they fill up? No matter which party you support this country was at its knees and Bush helped put it there, to me the fix is bring jobs back to the U.S. rather than have crap built over seas.
1st bush walked in to a fast declining economy then sept 11 came that should have leveled our economy.dropped taxes economy recovered brought in record tax revenue.then went on a spending spree like a drunken liberal like none we have seen until the next joker got in to the drivers seat and blew his spending out of the watter.drop taxes!stop the spending and entitlements drop 1/4 to 1/2 of all federal spending HAS TO BE DONE at some point.put this candy *** entitlement country back on the corect track.and I am sick and tire of the blame bush first BS the house sets the agenda for spending in this country the congress votes on it and the Perez signs it.who was in power for 6 yrs? plenty of blame to go around but the bulk falls on bush for not taking Nancy & Harry to the wood shed for a spanking .