Michigan removing turn ahead signs

mjkaliszak

New member
I thought I would start this , as to not infringe on the accident on trail 3 thread.
I can't believe this is even a statement the DRN is making. My wife said .... someone like me , yes can probably handle no turn ahead signs. BUT she said she would panic. This whole policy if true for next year makes me want to ride & spend my money in other states.
 

russholio

Well-known member
In a way, as others have stated in the other thread, it makes sense. Theoretically, if you don't know what's up ahead then you SHOULD ride cautiously and expect the unexpected. But that's only theoretically. We all know how that goes. The signs have been there so long, we're all accustomed to them and have grown to depend on them. Taking them away will for sure create a huge learning curve. I say leave 'em.
 

chevytaHOE5674

New member
You should just ride at an appropriate speed that allows you to negotiate anything that the trail does (twist, turn, hill, etc). I ride 99.9% off trail and don't have signs anyplace and somehow I've managed to keep it on the trail for many many years without too much trouble, but I also don't ride 95mph either.

There are plenty of roads out there that don't have signs warning of every twist and turn and somehow people seem to keep their cars on them.
 

harski

Member
There are so many variables when riding (ie;snow dust, daylight, cloud cover, terrain layout, snow/ice falling, etc...) that ANY signage has to help. I know when it's cloudy out seeing a trail is next to impossible and I rely on signage to help direct me through the trails. Obviously we have to ride according to conditions and take responsibility for our driving but to eliminate signage? Just seems to be silly in my book. Has anyone found this "rule" online yet to verify?

Harski
 

Polarice

New member
Yeah dnr logic and anyone else that agrees with their theory the first time you go around a blind curve and joe rocket comes around the turn the same time you do from the opposite direction. Only he's in your lane because that's the fastest way for him to make sure he didn't hit the tree he saw first! BOOM! :(

Seriously people c'mon.
 

vogelm1

New member
I was thinking the exact same thing...before anyone goes off on this subject, do we even know if this is factual, and not "something I heard about"? There must be a way to verify first.
There are so many variables when riding (ie;snow dust, daylight, cloud cover, terrain layout, snow/ice falling, etc...) that ANY signage has to help. I know when it's cloudy out seeing a trail is next to impossible and I rely on signage to help direct me through the trails. Obviously we have to ride according to conditions and take responsibility for our driving but to eliminate signage? Just seems to be silly in my book. Has anyone found this "rule" online yet to verify?

Harski
 

polarisrider1

New member
Heard this rumor before. DNR is not going to make trails less safe in order to kill off a few Ricky Racers in order to make a point as to slow down.
 

RevKev

New member
Heard this rumor before. DNR is not going to make trails less safe in order to kill off a few Ricky Racers in order to make a point as to slow down.
It's not a roumor Wayne, it's fact. It was suppose to take place this season, but the DNR pushed it back to next year. The DNR did a lot of research, and other states with LESS signeage, have fewer accidents, yes, with less signs, people tend to slow down. This is an attempt to get people to slow down......next may just be an enforced speed limit. Ever ride in Ontario? 35 MPH speed limit (don't know how well it is enforced) or out West? Their trails are marked very little.
 

dan wilson

New member
not a rumor,when I sat in the dnr meeting this fall for our snowmobile club,the state did not get it done in time for this year,what we are being told is that they(dnr) are making changes to sign's next year,other state's have all ready done it,they say it does slow the sled's down,I am mixed on this,most of the system has them,but not ever corner does.chevron's,sharp 90,curve ahead signs I think we be the sign's to go and a couple more,I think it is a cost of the sign's that is driving some of it,and that today's sled's are getting more and more hp.we will see a change come down by late summer 2012
 

whitedust

Well-known member
I don't like removing any signage at all. For example on all WI twistys I look at the snake sign ahead & procceed then process the next sign.Really does help. To me if right angle turn add flashing lights so no one gets hurt! Also riders looking for a familar sign can think a reroute now so no curve ahead. Leave signs as is.
 

superski

Member
If they do this stupid idea I'm staying away the first year anyway because there will surely be a learning curve until peoplr figure it out. Myself, I like the signs so I have an idea when I need to slow and watch for the Ricky Racers comming around the corners all over the trail. I just can't see how anyone can think this is a good move with all the long streight sections in these trails - maybe the next move will be to put in unmarked speed bumbs to keep you on your toes too
 

booondocker

New member
Actually this change may be rooted in an effort to reduce liability. Now, if you have signs up, but leave some obvious places missed, you set up a situation where there is an extension of liability because you did NOT put a sign up.


But as often happens, if there is no signs where there used to be signs and an accident occurs, then this would open up the liability aspect again because there USED to be signs there but are no longer in place.

I wonder if whom ever is in charge of these decisions ever consults with legal counsel BEFORE they put these policies in place.

We are a sign happy society. Imagine removing all arrow signs and cross road signs for auto traffic?

I can just hear the explaination to a jury, that..."hey, out west they never put signs up for cross roads....why should we...??"

Frankly anyone who blazes along on a trail they are not familar with and relies on signs to slow them down or to watch for hazzards is an idiot on a sled.

These trails are for ALL types of sledders, novice to experienced, and any signage that is in place should be a useful tool for any of them. Removing them because they don't do it out west or other states don't do it....seems a bit short sighted to me especially if clubs who put the signs up are willing to do it themselves.

A while back, I had some Wisconsin friends in my camp and they said that Wisconsin signage is well ahead of Michigan trail signage.

I wonder if anyone who runs both can verify that is still the case?
 

lofsfire

Active member
I was thinking the exact same thing...before anyone goes off on this subject, do we even know if this is factual, and not "something I heard about"? There must be a way to verify first.

This is from SledMI 3 pages on it basically the same thoughts as here but there are some links to DNRs page talking about it.

Officials say fewer trail signs lead to fewer accidents



MARQUETTE -- Ninety percent of snowmobile accidents are speed related, according to the Snowmobile Advisory Council.

In an effort to slow riders down, the D.N.R., surprisingly, is recommending that the number of warning signs on the trails be reduced.

"It's giving the rider the feeling of dependency, where they're dependent on those signs so they'll go faster, they'll also go from sign to sign because they feel more comfortable" says Rob Katona, of the D.N.R.

The D.N.R. argues that the messages of the signs are redundant.

One curve on a trail in Marquette has four warning signs. Which Don Britton, who grooms the trails, says is leading to some reckless sledding.

"A lot of crazy people, people driving by the signs and not by the actual conditions of the trails, curvy, straight, whatever" says Britton.


The D.N.R. recommendations not only ask that the number of signs be reduced, but that they be made consistent throughout the state.

"In addition to some of the duplicate and unnecessary signs, we're going to have some guidance documents to provide to the grant sponsors to more or less give them some guidance to show them where they should be placing the signs, which help with consistency" says Katona.

Under the recommended signage program, regulatory signs would remain unchanged.

If the D.N.R.'s recommendations are approved by the Michigan State Forest Management Team, they could be implemented as early as the 2011-2012 snowmobile season.

I get what they are saying but since my first time riding back in 1999 and I know the trail have increased signage. I really think it has helped having the signs. Plus that first time riding my group was much faster than I was and I had at least two times where the trail made a hard 90* or more turn but the road went straight. Lucky I realized my mistake as I went the wrong way, but what if I had made it to the next stop sign who knows how far away, or what if as I went straight even going slower, Thinking I'm on trail, and Someone comes from the correct direction. It could be head on or a broadside accident. I have been back down the same trail and have had new people with me that have made the comments. "I'm sure glad they mark the trail good, you could get lost easy. On a few of those turns it looked like you should go straight. And there where lot of track going that way." Since then I have found out most of these spots either run you back in to the trail or take to a shorter way to gas or a bar or something. But I could see and new person or someone like my wife who just follows the leader getting lost quick.

And on top of that the guy that is running to fast down the trail is going to go to fast until he hits something and he get a reality check. I think the sign help keep you in check and serve as a reminder, This is going to be tight especially if someone else is coming.Or at least that what it should be....

 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
Signs are good.

Common sense is better.

True, but not all people have it. I not only want the signs to stay for all the obvious reasons, but I want to be protected from the 5% of idiots out there that have absolutely no common sense at all! Those riders put us all at risk now, and that will only increase with no turn ahead signs. It's nuts!!
 

eagle1

Well-known member
Let's remove stop signs too, that will really slow people down. Heck let's pull orange ones too, then peolple will have to look for the trail making them go even slower.
Dumb, keep the signs.
 

snake

Member
also,if this is a so called "budget move" (so they say),lets see what kind of wage increase these people get after this happens!!=B.S.!!
 
Top