You're kidding, right? After putting up signs, fencing, and threatening to have to close the trail, they need to do more? People complain because there isn't enough law enforcement, and then complain that there is too much. I know from experience that things are not always fair. Ever been pulled over for speeding and have to watch everybody go flying past at 70mph? People need to realize that somebody else isn't always going to be there to solve their problems. One thing for sure, most people are not going to put up with having to fear a snowmachine crashing and burning into their homes killing their family while they sleep, or have to pay for government agencies to baby sit to prevent rampant damage to public and private property. The bull needs to be taken by the horns or something is going to give. And if the DNR is truly ignoring the problem due to political pressure or whatever, it's only going to worsen things down the road.
Military Hill Issue AGAIN!
- Thread starter mrsrunningbear
- Start date
You're kidding, right? After putting up signs, fencing, and threatening to have to close the trail, they need to do more? People complain because there isn't enough law enforcement, and then complain that there is too much. I know from experience that things are not always fair. Ever been pulled over for speeding and have to watch everybody go flying past at 70mph? People need to realize that somebody else isn't always going to be there to solve their problems. One thing for sure, most people are not going to put up with having to fear a snowmachine crashing and burning into their homes killing their family while they sleep, or have to pay for government agencies to baby sit to prevent rampant damage to public and private property. The bull needs to be taken by the horns or something is going to give. And if the DNR is truly ignoring the problem due to political pressure or whatever, it's only going to worsen things down the road.
I'm pretty sure that part of the Ontonagon River gorge is designated non-motorized to protect the hill slopes from erosion. I don't know about legal jurisdiction, but not all public land is open to traffic. I think there needs to be clarification on this issue to legitimize off trail and off road riding areas if any of these areas actually even exist. When in doubt, ride where you know it's O.K. like designated trails, forest roads, etc. What amazes me is that there are so many good places to ride right now, why people always have to push it to the limits where it is almost certainly going to create problems.
SledTL
Active member
So I've been contemplating how to respond to this thread today. I think that I am the youngest one on this site along with Indy, which puts us into that Ricky racer age group. To be honest I don't have a desire to off trail ride. I've only ridden once in 30 inches of snow when we had a blizzard a few years ago and I ended up spending time digging out the two ton yami more than riding. That wasn't a very fun experience to say the least. At least down in southern wisconsin I don't see why this activity would be desirable. I may have only been around 18 years but I've seen my fair share of idiots breaking a arms, tracks, bones, etc doing stupid things. To me if your riding off trail you put yourself through that risk. I take extremely good care of my toys and can't see why you would want to ride across fields with gigantic frozen boulders or stumps that are hidden. Not to mention hidden ditches and sewers that will kill you. Tell me wrong, the trail should be the safest route, it's marked and for the most part smooth. I would much rather enjoy putting 200 miles worth of trail riding on in a day over anything else. I was taught that my playground of freedom was out on the lake where I could do whatever I want free of any obstructions. Maybe I was raised better than others, but I also realize that just because I live a good life doesn't mean that I can go out and drop 13k on a new sled whenever I feel necessary. I'll get off my soapbox for the moment....happy riding though it's been a great start to the year!!!!
From the Ottawa National Forest website:
"Generally, the snowmobile season runs for 16 weeks, from December 1st through March 30th on groomed snowmobile trails and unplowed Ottawa National Forest Roads. After March 1st, each spring, the area of the Ottawa National Forest, which lies south of M-28 and east of Highway M-64, is closed to cross-country snowmobile use to prevent disturbance of nesting eagles. Snowmobiles are permitted to use any designated trails, or Forest Service roads within this area, which have not been snowplowed, signed, gated, or otherwise closed to such use. The remainder of the forest (north of M-28 and west of M-64) is open to cross-country, designated trail use, or operation on unplowed Forest Service roads which have not been closed to such use. Snowmobiling is prohibited in Federally Designated Wildernesses (McCormick, Sturgeon River Gorge and Sylvania Wildernesses) and is permitted only on designated trails within Semi-primitive Non-motorized Management Areas and Wild Segments of Federally Designated Wild and Scenic Rivers Corridors."
I think the subject area falls under the above mentioned area where snowmobiling is only permitted on the designated trails, I'm not sure how extensive the restricted area is. Another complicating issue in the Ottawa as well as throughout the rest of the U.P. is the large number of small privately owned tracts of land intermixed with public lands. These landowners might require access to their property and probably have legal easements, but they might not want others to use their property. Some of these areas are posted, some are not.
The way I read it, the widespread restrictions after March 1st outlined above are to protect an apparently vulnerable area for nesting eagles. I assume that the wilderness, semi-primitive non-motorized, and watershed restrictions would apply year round. When in doubt, ask or research the topic. Stay out if unsure. I don't believe that misinterpretation of the rules will necessarily get you off the hook if you run astray.
A little off topic, but if you are planning a professional snowmachine riding movie or video, ask permission from the land owner or public entity first. You might be surprised at the answer if you do it the right way. I know the Forest Service does allow this in some parts of the country and if you're legit, you don't have to sneak around and give the sport more bad publicity. If you do get permission be sure to give proper film credits. Any movie without proper film credits to the landowner is not legit in my opinion.
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Firecatguy
New member
movie? credits? wth....someone shot a movie on military hill?
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Not a real movie on Military Hill as far as I know. I'm just saying that if a film producer does not give credit to the landowners of the location on which the film is shot it is not a legitimate production, and they could be sued for any royalties or possibly charged with trespassing if it can be proven. Off topic, I suppose. But still relevant since some of these bootleg films are now being circulated and even being marketed apparently.
snobuilder
Well-known member
Read through many of these posts and saw alot of references to "ripping it up"....i can't wait to see the proof of this carnage come May....what will you call this "movie"?...will Al gore be consulted?....LOL
indy_500
Well-known member
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think every issue that comes up is a people problem. Everyone these days is out to get each other. JS.
mrsrunningbear
Active member
It doesn't matter if there is damage/carnage come spring, the sign says "stay off" "Stay on the Trail", and the danger of the snowmobile landing on US45 is crazy, snowmobilers are breaking the rules and there is proof, the "non-motorized people" can build a case to have trails taken away and they will take the time to do it!!
YOU HAVE TO GET THE BIG PICTURE
snobuilder
Well-known member
Don't let them say they own the environment.
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""""It doesn't matter if there is damage/carnage come spring""""""NAZI SEZ WHAT?...not refering to you MRS RB....refering to the "SELF PROCLAIMED ENVIRONMENTALISTS"...you are correct....no evidence of damage is required once you establish yourself as the "AUTHORITY ON THE ENVIRONMENT""
I understand why you fear the self proclaimed environmentalist. You rely on open trails and open PUBLIC LAND to make a living....I get it.
They... (self-proclaimed environmentalist)... get the free pass. They can proclaim damage without so much as one shred of evidence.... Walk on eggshells ppl.... they own you because we let them.
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""""It doesn't matter if there is damage/carnage come spring""""""NAZI SEZ WHAT?...not refering to you MRS RB....refering to the "SELF PROCLAIMED ENVIRONMENTALISTS"...you are correct....no evidence of damage is required once you establish yourself as the "AUTHORITY ON THE ENVIRONMENT""
I understand why you fear the self proclaimed environmentalist. You rely on open trails and open PUBLIC LAND to make a living....I get it.
They... (self-proclaimed environmentalist)... get the free pass. They can proclaim damage without so much as one shred of evidence.... Walk on eggshells ppl.... they own you because we let them.
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mrsrunningbear
Active member
I know what you're saying and you are correct! I have seen first hand what these people are willing to do and the support they can get! You have to work VERY hard to beat them, I know, I was on the winning side after 6 years for an OTV trail. Seems most Motorized are not willing to get involved environmentalist get 2000 support letters, we get 200...problem right there
snobuilder
Well-known member
Let the delete of my post be evidence that we is owned.
nevermind....thanks for the endorsement, Mrs. RB
Where do we go from here, KWIKGRIN?
nevermind....thanks for the endorsement, Mrs. RB
Where do we go from here, KWIKGRIN?
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chevytaHOE5674
New member
Drive past the military hill sometime in the spring and you will see ruts from peoples tracks spinning all the way UP the hill. Heck I was by there the other day and there was dirt and grass/trees plastered on top of the snow and some even on the paved road surface. Nothing imagined about it, even a blind monkey would notice it.
Guys who think that snowmobiles spinning up hillsides don't do any damage to what is underneath are sadly mistaken. As a forester I notice many times while cruising and marking timber that the there are little saplings on hill sides that are bent and busted and have the bark missing from them from sleds running them over.
Guys who think that snowmobiles spinning up hillsides don't do any damage to what is underneath are sadly mistaken. As a forester I notice many times while cruising and marking timber that the there are little saplings on hill sides that are bent and busted and have the bark missing from them from sleds running them over.
packerlandrider
Well-known member
I have been following this thread without input sort of seeing where it would go, but would just like to reiterate a couple of the thoughts attached above from the environmental aspect. Across the landscape, there is a gradient of how susceptible areas are to erosion/washouts. A couple of key factors are slope and vegetation. Obviously Military Hill has the slope factor, and with the highway cut through there vegetation amount is most likely less than natural.
Any type of off road vehicle can have effects on the amount of harm done to slope stability. This can through things like disturbing the soil or harming the vegetation. As snowmobilers, we are fortunate that in many places we have a snow "buffer," however as has been pointed out damage can still occur. There have been numerous accounts on here of tree (property) damage, whether it is specific trees planted on private property or as Ryan notes on land he has timber cruised.
While those who are making waves about the snowmobiling taking place on Military Hill most likely have numerous reasons, the concern over erosion in an area that has major public transportation implications is certainly understandable. (Or stated otherwise, I'm not surprised one bit people are showing concern, especially with how evident it seems to look.)