Multi Use Trails

[mrsrunningbear]

Pros and Cons of sharing

So I did it again, its a habit of mine I volunteered to gather info for one of the snowmobile clubs we’re in and thought this would be one of the places to ask.

What the snowmobile club is looking at is a bicycle group that would like to map their bike route down a trail in the clubs system. It is a designated multi use trail already its just not advertised so not alot of use. The worries of the club lie with the thought of increased bike traffic with this trail becoming a mapped bike route and issues of safety between Bikes and ATV’s sharing. Then if issues/accidents arise between the two they could change this trail to a non motorized trail thus atv and snowmobiles loosing it. Also re-surfacing/paving has been mentioned by the bike group also.

The club knows this is done in many areas and would just like to educate themselves and are wondering how it has worked for others

Also we’re all for sharing and bringing any extra revenue into the towns we can.

Thanks Linda

 

[polarisrider1]

Re-surfacing? such as paving? Bikes as in bicycles?

 

[mnguy]

Avoid the hassle and start looking for a new ATV route now (one designated ATV use only). Once bicycles start "sharing" they won't tolerate anything less than smooth blacktop trails. Watched it happen several times in our area....eventually the original users (and often builders) won't be welcome anymore.

 

[mrsrunningbear]

Re-surfacing? such as paving? Bikes as in bicycles?

yes paving and yes bicycles, sorry

and mnguy any town or club you could refer me to?

 

[Dave_B]

Bikes and bike riders = oil and water with motorized vehicles.

I have a bike and ride a bike.
I have an ATV and I ride an ATV.
I have snowmobiles and ride snowmobiles.

An official shared trail system will never work. While I applaud your efforts to research the issue, nothing good can come from attempting to establish an "official" bike/ATV trail system. We all currently have access to the trails to use at our leisure thanks to the hard work done by those already involved. To differentiate between the two uses, non-motorized and motorized, IMO, can only mean bad news.

Lets not push the issue past the already volatile breaking point of "established trails". Lets let the current system take root and grow it from there.

Just my .10, my .02 is free!

Dave

 

[snowdance]

There is a bike trail that goes through Wales, WI. It used to be gravel and snowmobiles were allowed on it. They paved it and no more snowmobiles. But, thats just one situation. This may be a whole different one.

 

[Hoosier]

Multi-use predictably and inevitably leads to no snowmobiles. Particularly when private property is involved. Just my opinion.

Oh, and once it's paved, you better not have studs or carbides on it!!!

 

[special_ed]

We had joggers on the trail in Gaylord once. They're not that smart.

 

[polarisrider1]

None mix well. Why in the world would an ATV want to use a paved trail? The minute it gets paved it goes to the Biker/hiker group and the snowmobilers get slowly pushed out of using the trail. It has happened all over lower Michigan.

 

[mrsrunningbear]

Wow...this is what we have heard, but we need some facts to put on paper with names and areas and people to talk to from those areas.

The bike group was so much more prepared at the meetings with facts and names of trails shared that are working well. Statistic saying how much money they would bring in.

This is a main trail in Watersmeet we're talking about so any help with this would be great, we just need some contact info

Maybe someone could PM me with some contact info or just a town name where this has happened.


Thanks

 

[Skylar]

Bad idea, I have no facts, but there is no way bikers will bring in as much tourism money as sledders do, once it is paved, the bikers will not want sleds on it.

 

[Firecatguy]

None mix well. Why in the world would an ATV want to use a paved trail? The minute it gets paved it goes to the Biker/hiker group and the snowmobilers get slowly pushed out of using the trail. It has happened all over lower Michigan.

yep.....here in MN they paved a few trails for bikes....well that turned into no sleds with picks can use it...we stopped going up there as it was too hard!! if you have one guy with studs you have to re-route

 

[booondocker]

Here is some food for thought.

Whenever you get faster traffic moving among-st slower traffic, you will eventually have problems. Can you use the trail system in over-lapping time periods...such as a December or April that is mild and everyone "knows where the trail is" for biking so why not go on a day where only a little snow is on the trail?

How can a paved trail work for anything other than a bike? It isn't good for ATV or sleds.

If you do allow sleds and bikes on the same trails, who is going to police the trails at the times that the bikes are on it.

Since the slow and fast traffic will eventually create an issue, will the liability rate paid now and figured into the sticker costs actually cause the rate to increase and therefore stickers to increase too? Accidents are bound to happen...who is going to pick up the increased cost for this?

Who is going to maintain the trails during the season that bikers are to be used?

If you do allow bikes on the same trails, would it require opening the entire trail system up to them or only a portion; and if so how would the trails integrate the two, and how would the trail be policed to enforce the restricted areas for both types of traffic?

Who has the right of way if multi use?

What rules would the bikers have to live by, ATV/Snowmobile rules or a separate set of rules just for bikes?

While I think that there could be some multi use that could function Okay, if you get in the hills and bikes are not moving fast enough to get out of the way, terrain would definitely become an issue for visibility reasons....dangerous enough now with one use equipment.

 

[98panther]

Are they really thinking they would be using the trail at the same time?
There are plenty of bike trails that are not paved, all the long ones I have ridden on have not been paved.

Atv's and bikes are a tougher mix than sled IMO. They would be there at the same time.

 

[mrsrunningbear]

Here is some food for thought.

Whenever you get faster traffic moving among-st slower traffic, you will eventually have problems. Can you use the trail system in over-lapping time periods...such as a December or April that is mild and everyone "knows where the trail is" for biking so why not go on a day where only a little snow is on the trail?

How can a paved trail work for anything other than a bike? It isn't good for ATV or sleds.

If you do allow sleds and bikes on the same trails, who is going to police the trails at the times that the bikes are on it.

Since the slow and fast traffic will eventually create an issue, will the liability rate paid now and figured into the sticker costs actually cause the rate to increase and therefore stickers to increase too? Accidents are bound to happen...who is going to pick up the increased cost for this?

Who is going to maintain the trails during the season that bikers are to be used?

If you do allow bikes on the same trails, would it require opening the entire trail system up to them or only a portion; and if so how would the trails integrate the two, and how would the trail be policed to enforce the restricted areas for both types of traffic?

Who has the right of way if multi use?

What rules would the bikers have to live by, ATV/Snowmobile rules or a separate set of rules just for bikes?

While I think that there could be some multi use that could function Okay, if you get in the hills and bikes are not moving fast enough to get out of the way, terrain would definitely become an issue for visibility reasons....dangerous enough now with one use equipment.

thanks booondocker these are our questions too and why we are looking for other groups that have been through this. We need some facts/proof it hasn't worked in other areas. I hope you don't mind but I'm gonna copy some of your questions for our next meeting, Thanks!

This bike group is pushing pretty hard.

Its about a 4 mile spot on trail 3 coming up from lando its starts from where the trail crosses US 45 heading north into watersmeet and meets US 45 again.

Some people in the bike group are on the Watersmeet planning committee so we have a though go ahead...we need facts so bad

 

[mrsrunningbear]

Are they really thinking they would be using the trail at the same time?
There are plenty of bike trails that are not paved, all the long ones I have ridden on have not been paved.

Atv's and bikes are a tougher mix than sled IMO. They would be there at the same time.

They are, bikes and ATV's and thats one of our points its been a multi use dirt trail for ever why change it, Hmmm maybe because they want us off it

 

[Dave_B]

I think that you will get over 11,000 people on this board who are going to be against the general concept. I think we should look at it from a different angle.

Who is the bike club? What is their history? What projects have they taken on and how do they correspond to the Watersmeet area? Who are their affiliations/sponsors?

What are the facts and figures they presented?

What style of bike riding are they talking about?

Who do they propose to fund/maintain these trail conversions?

Which club did they approach and what relation does this club have with the bike club?

I am not against non-motorized use of the trails but I feel that converting them in any way that would potentially benefit one group more than another is asking for trouble.

 

[jmag]

they already have a paved trail in lando which they are going to connect to boulder, eventually a loop to conover. couldnt they ride county roads to watersmeet from this existing trail? i agree, they will have it paved in no time and we will be sol.

 

[Firecatguy]

Bikes are starting to push cars out from downtown Minneapolis.....they have more rights to the road than cars and you should see the mess they have made now...

 

[mrsrunningbear]

This is the group and the plans http://www.wildernesslakestrails.org/