Multi Use Trails
- Thread starter mrsrunningbear
- Start date
I'm one of them, Go to Twins game and see how many bikes are locked up down there.
They had to add alot more bike racks than they thought they would need.
You'd think 30K people came on bike.
For downtown it a good thing. I know there are some aholes out there - but most are not. Just like sledder a few give the rest a bad name.
oldguy
Member
Here is a web site to a tar multi use trail in Northern MN that dosen't allow snowmobiles.
Sections of this trail are completed and other sections are still under constuction. This trail is located in prime snowmobiling country, but no sled are allowed, studded or non studded.
You could contact them to understand why no sleds are allowed and how it was funded.
www.mesabitrail.com
Sections of this trail are completed and other sections are still under constuction. This trail is located in prime snowmobiling country, but no sled are allowed, studded or non studded.
You could contact them to understand why no sleds are allowed and how it was funded.
www.mesabitrail.com
Some highlights from their website.
"Mission
Our mission is to establish a world-class bicycling and hiking trail system that will provide unique access to our area’s pristine lakes and forests, abundant wildlife, and remarkably fresh air.
Purpose
Wilderness Lakes Trails, Inc. (WLT) will act as an advocate for the Wilderness Lakes Trail, a series of non-motorized bicycling and walking trails connecting the town of Land O’ Lakes, Wisconsin and the town of Watersmeet, Michigan and as a liaison among bikers, walkers, and other pedestrian trail users and all bodies of local, county, state, and federal government and other trail groups such as snowmobile clubs, in matters affecting the Trail related to nature-based/transportation activities such as bicycling, hiking, walking, and other similar activities."
Their purpose is clear - Establish non-motorized trails but nowhere does it clearly state which of these trails are currently shared use ATV/Snowmobile trails.
"WLT has reached an agreement with Gogebic County and the Town of Watersmeet to
place shared-use signs on Old US 2 and Thousand Island Lake Road from Watersmeet to
the Michigan-Wisconsin border.
The entire 10-mile section of the Agonikak Trail on the Michigan side has been brushed
and signed and is now a very usable hiking and mountain biking trail. The trail will be
gradually improved as funding becomes available.
A grant application has been submitted to the Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources for a
portion of the Agonikak."
Again, they plan to take over this trail. What is its current designation?
I think what they are trying to establish could have benefits, but nowhere on their site does it clearly state how they plan to work WITH local ATV/Snowmobile clubs to incorporate a year round shared use system.
That's what I got out of it. Perhaps others may come up with a different interpretation of their mission.
"Mission
Our mission is to establish a world-class bicycling and hiking trail system that will provide unique access to our area’s pristine lakes and forests, abundant wildlife, and remarkably fresh air.
Purpose
Wilderness Lakes Trails, Inc. (WLT) will act as an advocate for the Wilderness Lakes Trail, a series of non-motorized bicycling and walking trails connecting the town of Land O’ Lakes, Wisconsin and the town of Watersmeet, Michigan and as a liaison among bikers, walkers, and other pedestrian trail users and all bodies of local, county, state, and federal government and other trail groups such as snowmobile clubs, in matters affecting the Trail related to nature-based/transportation activities such as bicycling, hiking, walking, and other similar activities."
Their purpose is clear - Establish non-motorized trails but nowhere does it clearly state which of these trails are currently shared use ATV/Snowmobile trails.
"WLT has reached an agreement with Gogebic County and the Town of Watersmeet to
place shared-use signs on Old US 2 and Thousand Island Lake Road from Watersmeet to
the Michigan-Wisconsin border.
The entire 10-mile section of the Agonikak Trail on the Michigan side has been brushed
and signed and is now a very usable hiking and mountain biking trail. The trail will be
gradually improved as funding becomes available.
A grant application has been submitted to the Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources for a
portion of the Agonikak."
Again, they plan to take over this trail. What is its current designation?
I think what they are trying to establish could have benefits, but nowhere on their site does it clearly state how they plan to work WITH local ATV/Snowmobile clubs to incorporate a year round shared use system.
That's what I got out of it. Perhaps others may come up with a different interpretation of their mission.
Sorry Mrsrunningbear, my experiences have been more with sled trails than atv ones. Our trail system lost a section a few years back when a city paved part of the sled trail thru a park. Insult to injury....it was payed for with grant money from the MN stud sticker fund. I could go on and on about this subject but if you can't say something nice.......
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
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THIS IS EXACTLY what should happen if they want trails, and trails funded, just like any other "recreational" trail. My guess is they are not even considering this kind of fee, and if they did, they would not even be in the planning stages of anything.
And to add to this, lets start registering bicycles, annually, collecting fees, and using the money to do what they want. Then lets see how far this would go.
Without reading all the posts I would get the research information the bike folks brought to the meetings and start making calls to the snowmobile folks who are listed that claim they agree that sharing works.
If the meetings are in an open public forum you have the right through the Freedom of Information Act to get their paperwork to review.
As someone else mentioned once a trail is paved most likely they will close it to motor vehicle traffic. Think about what studs and carbides do to the pavement.
Another thing to do is get the landowners point of view, opening trails to "ALL" may not be what they want. Do you think the landowners who have agreed to allow snowmobiles travel across their land for the winter months would want their land open all year round??
Just my 2 cents
If the meetings are in an open public forum you have the right through the Freedom of Information Act to get their paperwork to review.
As someone else mentioned once a trail is paved most likely they will close it to motor vehicle traffic. Think about what studs and carbides do to the pavement.
Another thing to do is get the landowners point of view, opening trails to "ALL" may not be what they want. Do you think the landowners who have agreed to allow snowmobiles travel across their land for the winter months would want their land open all year round??
Just my 2 cents
I guess first off it would depend on who owns the land. They will have the ultimate control over any easements.
If your club owns it, then grant them easement if you think it will be a good thing, but in the contract have it clearly stated (and written by a qualified lawyer) that all changes/improvements to the trail have to be cleared through your club and that they cannot and will not ever attempt to change the designation of this trail to non motorized unless approved by the club.
If anyone else but the club owns the land, then the club better start kissing up to them big time and ensure that the trail will not lose it's motorized designation.
-John
If your club owns it, then grant them easement if you think it will be a good thing, but in the contract have it clearly stated (and written by a qualified lawyer) that all changes/improvements to the trail have to be cleared through your club and that they cannot and will not ever attempt to change the designation of this trail to non motorized unless approved by the club.
If anyone else but the club owns the land, then the club better start kissing up to them big time and ensure that the trail will not lose it's motorized designation.
-John
It should be just kept a dirt trail, the way it has been forever. Their ultimate goal is to get it paved, then kick motorized traffic off it. Why don't they make their own trail, instead of trying to use one already in place? Snowmobile clubs have to re-route trails on a yearly basis, and it is hard work.
This is why they should have their OWN fees, for their OWN usage, on their OWN trails. Let them work for years and years as snowmobilers and clubs have for the trails they want, instead of taking over the ones we have all worked VERY hard at, and PAID for through license and usage fees for years.
michaeladams
New member
just this past sunday I was riding motorcycles with my brother in law and a heard of bicicles cut us off. i missed them by inches, my brother in law on the other hand was pulling a trailer and caught one of them with the fender and wiped him out. they don't even look where they are going, they acually think they have the right of way.no more mister nice guy out of me.next time i see a bicycle on the road the isn't within three feet of the side of the road there is gonna be trouble.by the grace of god nobody got hurt but it could have beenvery bad.
harvest1121
Well-known member
When is the last time you ever saw someone riding a bicycle stop at a stop sign. They look at you like they own the road. Let them make a new trail for themselves. We do have a trail in Illinois called the I and M canal. Its hard packed limestone. You can ride bicycles in the summer but no atv's. But when we do ride it on snowmobiles people look at us like we are doing something wrong because they are walking on the packed snow.
First off, I must state I am not for this trail.
That being said, reading these posts reminds me how mad everyone gets when snowmobilers are all given a bad name by the few a-holes. I used to ride to my shop everyday on my bicycle, 3.5 miles each way. I followed all the rules, and I can tell you, it more often than not the vehicle driver is at fault when there is a collision. I ended up under a gravel truck because a driver didn't see me coming, chartruese vest, blinking lights and all. Believe it or not, a bike is entitled to the actual lane, and it is your responsibility to give us 3 feet of space. I can't tell you how many cars have nearly taken me out. Most of us (again, sound familiar) follow the rules.
That being said, reading these posts reminds me how mad everyone gets when snowmobilers are all given a bad name by the few a-holes. I used to ride to my shop everyday on my bicycle, 3.5 miles each way. I followed all the rules, and I can tell you, it more often than not the vehicle driver is at fault when there is a collision. I ended up under a gravel truck because a driver didn't see me coming, chartruese vest, blinking lights and all. Believe it or not, a bike is entitled to the actual lane, and it is your responsibility to give us 3 feet of space. I can't tell you how many cars have nearly taken me out. Most of us (again, sound familiar) follow the rules.
According to your earlier post, here is what they are looking at:
Its about a 4 mile spot on trail 3 coming up from lando its starts from where the trail crosses US 45 heading north into watersmeet and meets US 45 again.
Is this the only section of trail that the bike club is looking to share use with? After looking at their proposed map, it appears that they are planning a complete circle thru that area. Do they already have their own proposed trail system established to connect them all together? Are any of the other routes also currently mapped ATV/Snowmobile trails that they will try to "share" once this particular section gets resolved?
If they ONLY want to share a 4 mile section, I would think that the club responsible for this trail would be holding the cards in any negotiations.
Its about a 4 mile spot on trail 3 coming up from lando its starts from where the trail crosses US 45 heading north into watersmeet and meets US 45 again.
Is this the only section of trail that the bike club is looking to share use with? After looking at their proposed map, it appears that they are planning a complete circle thru that area. Do they already have their own proposed trail system established to connect them all together? Are any of the other routes also currently mapped ATV/Snowmobile trails that they will try to "share" once this particular section gets resolved?
If they ONLY want to share a 4 mile section, I would think that the club responsible for this trail would be holding the cards in any negotiations.
mrsrunningbear
Active member
No as of now no fees will be charged
This is where the snowmobile and ATV clubs stand leave it dirt leave it as its been for years. We think they should ride the side of US45 on the paved shoulder into town about 2 miles. Like you said let them make their own trail and yes sell stickers and take care of maintenance and fund it them selves
The trail is a DNR and township trail
wags great info thanks lots
and thanks for a contact oldguy
We're feeling the screw turning and really need some hard facts to support our effort to keep it how it is. This isn't going to be easy
booondocker
New member
Speaking from a practical stand point, I would really doubt that the DNRE would want to go about supervising a whole new trail system for them, when they have "sort of" already got the actual trails in place with only the need to get permission from the respective owners.
You might very well be trying to swim upstream on this one...
I would sort of second what John says here and try and get some foot hold on legal issues, and associated costs, and then some sort of language that would put this whole thing up to a --trial-- process and then have language in place that would put this up to debate after a set trial period which would end the use if enough complaints or accidents occurred.
They should foot the cost, both to set up and on going to maintain. Once the money issue is brought up, and real costs associated, then it may very well end the process...and if not, then go ahead and try it out, but have the teeth to kill it if it doesn't work out.
You might very well be trying to swim upstream on this one...
I would sort of second what John says here and try and get some foot hold on legal issues, and associated costs, and then some sort of language that would put this whole thing up to a --trial-- process and then have language in place that would put this up to debate after a set trial period which would end the use if enough complaints or accidents occurred.
They should foot the cost, both to set up and on going to maintain. Once the money issue is brought up, and real costs associated, then it may very well end the process...and if not, then go ahead and try it out, but have the teeth to kill it if it doesn't work out.
mrsrunningbear
Active member
with the DNR and township holding this trail...yup we're swimming up stream but we don't want to go down with out a fight
I don't feel the DNR and Township are unreasonable people and with proper representation and facts maybe they'll hear us
mrsrunningbear
Active member
Its not the clubs trail
DNR and Township...this rerouting and stuff clubs have to go thru for trails is just nuts. I tell ya it was hard to leave the computer this morning after unleashing this and be gone all day. Sorry for all the posts but I had to answer