Multi Use Trails

[Falcon20]

Talk about touching a nerve mrsrb. I only read three or four posts and I had read enough. Years ago in Ohio some of our sled registration fee was to be used for a Rails to Trails improvement fund. Good idea right? Baloney! In my neck of the woods we (sledders) had an abandoned RR bed, totally unimproved, that was used for a three county cross route to get from hither and yonder. BTW, no trail system in north central Ohio.
All the Rails to Trails did, with my money, was improve that railbed by brushing, widening and leveling to be paved with asphalt for bicycles and ONLY bicycles. Included in this improvement was 6" posts set just under 4 feet apart at all cross roads, both sides of road, along with signage that motorized vehicles of any type were illegal and would be prosecuted.
My opinion. Let 'em ride roads. But then I've never seen a bicyclist obey highway laws and etiquette either.

 

[chords]

"A dog sledder representative stated that their group would like a speed limit on
the trails but does believe the snowmobiles put down nice tracks. This person
stated that the only bother is when snowmobiles come around corners at high
speeds.

Different location and 4 yrs ago, but the minutes from a MI DNR public meeting will give a good cross section of what to expect when everyone gets to voice their opinion on how a trail should be used.

DNR Minutes >>>> http://www.michigan.gov/documents/FortCuster_minutes_011106_149635_7.pdf

 

[Dave_B]

O.K. Let's step back.

You say it's not the clubs trail. There has to be an agreement to use this trail for ATV/Snowmobile use

Who has granted this portion to be designated as "trail" and who has it been designated to?

Who, according to the agreement, is the responsible party to maintain this as a multi-use trail?

What is the established end date for the agreement to expire?

Who is responsible for funding of the maintenence of the trail section?

Who is the club reimbursed from for expenses for the repair, maintenence, grooming and general upkeep of this section in order to keep this section designated as an approved multi-use trail?

These are all questions you need to obtain written documentation for to establish the purpose of the original designated use, and the parties responsible for the maintenence of this trail.

The club should retain a lawyer familiar with land use designation and stand it's ground.

The bikers will not be able to take control of trail system, established with a purpose and predetermined responsibility of control, based on a couple of gullible Watersmeet board members.

 

[fusionfool]

Wow...this is what we have heard, but we need some facts to put on paper with names and areas and people to talk to from those areas.

The bike group was so much more prepared at the meetings with facts and names of trails shared that are working well. Statistic saying how much money they would bring in.

This is a main trail in Watersmeet we're talking about so any help with this would be great, we just need some contact info

Maybe someone could PM me with some contact info or just a town name where this has happened.


Thanks

An example is WI, Chippewa falls / Eau Claire area, the Old Abe trail. The snowmobile clubs put in all the bridges, and maintained the trail system. They decided to allow pavement to be laid so that bicycles could use during the summer months. Next winter came and there were complaints that the snowmobiles were damaging the bike trail. This caused many early closure of the Old Abe trail every time the sun would shine, and a little black top was showing, melt down was inevitable. I do not have all of the details, however became such an issue we no longer ride in that area.

 

[zltim]

Why would any snowmobile club be so blind as allow paving their trail? If you are not any smarter then that, you get what you deserve.

I am tired of these free loader bikers taking over trails. They don't spend money either just as cheap Xcountry skiers are. They use our trails and then get pissed when we pass by them with our smelly, noisey, sleds.

 

[rocketman356]

First thing I would research is one of their bike only trails and ask them if you can make that a muti-use trail.

 

[Hoosier]

Why would any snowmobile club be so blind as allow paving their trail? If you are not any smarter then that, you get what you deserve.

I am tired of these free loader bikers taking over trails. They don't spend money either just as cheap Xcountry skiers are. They use our trails and then get pissed when we pass by them with our smelly, noisey, sleds.

I don't think it's an issue of being snowmobilers being smart. It's more that first you let them use the trail in the summer - you're just being reasonable, after all, you aren't using it. Next thing you know, they want to pave it. And who funds that? Your taxdollars typically. And then you can't ride on it once conditions are a little marginal. Which is a major slap in the face since it's the snowmobile club that obtained the access, created the trail and maintained it.

There was an article/comment on one of the MSA magazines awhile back about how the MSA would like to use some of the funds from the trail permits and sled registrations to purchase permanent easements for snowmobiling. Trouble is the DNR/State wouldn't let them (if I remember the details correctly). I think this is an incredible idea. The best way for snowmobilers to preserve the trail system they have built is to fund permanent easements. Of course the trail in question is I believe public land, and I'm not sure if you can buy an easement on public land.

 

[polarisrider1]

Why would any snowmobile club be so blind as allow paving their trail? If you are not any smarter then that, you get what you deserve.

I am tired of these free loader bikers taking over trails. They don't spend money either just as cheap Xcountry skiers are. They use our trails and then get pissed when we pass by them with our smelly, noisey, sleds.

Smelly?? Noisey?? Nothing sounds sweeter than an SLP Can and smells better than Amsoil in the morning.

 

[mrsrunningbear]

There is an agreement for the use of this trail for ATV/Snowmobile. The snowmobile has the agreement and paperwork. They are contracted for year round repair, maintenence and general upkeep of this section....but only usage from Dec.1 to March 31. so in between those dates the DNR and Township and can let whoever they want use it or close it, its up to them

 

[mrsrunningbear]

What great people on this site!

I want to thank the people who called (Richard) and emailed (to many to list) me today. THANK YOU! and A BIG THANK YOU JohnDee GANG without you guys this wouldn't have happened networking is GREAT. Kicking things around with everyone that all have so many different experiences Its the best!!!!!

My lists are looking so much better now....

 

[Dave_B]

There is an agreement for the use of this trail for ATV/Snowmobile. The snowmobile has the agreement and paperwork. They are contracted for year round repair, maintenence and general upkeep of this section....but only usage from Dec.1 to March 31. so in between those dates the DNR and Township and can let whoever they want use it or close it, its up to them

I assume you mean the club has been contracted for year round repair, etc...

This is good. Let's just make sure it stays that way or the Subaru, bike rack, kayak, mountain bike hikers with all wheel drive and a bottles of wine will pounce!

Good Job!!

 

[mrsrunningbear]

I assume you mean the club has been contracted for year round repair, etc...

This is good. Let's just make sure it stays that way or the Subaru, bike rack, kayak, mountain bike hikers with all wheel drive and a bottles of wine will pounce!

Good Job!!

kinda...Dave, the problem is from April 1st to Dec 1st the township and DNR (the landowners) can do what ever they want with the trail, yes we have a year round contract for repair ect... and the right of way from Dec to April but thats it.... April to Dec we really have no say as to who uses it. Its like the land owners that lock gates and close their part of the trail, these land owners designated it multi-use. I think we need to work on not letting them change it and get it in writing or something

 

[Dave_B]

Usage from April to December, there is really nothing you can do about it. Having year round responsibility for maintanence is what the club needs to continue to push for. Let them use the trail. It's not a bad thing. The key is to make sure that plans to take control and/or improve the stretch of trail do not fall into the wrong hands. In other words, keep it up and passable for all to enjoy year round. This way nobody will want to take it over and it will continue to be accessible during the winter months for those of us who have put in the blood, sweat and tears from day one to make the trail system what is is today.

Again, GOOD JOB!

Dave

 

[lakesimcoe]

They seem to be pretty adamant to use the term non-motorized when describing the trail system on their website......

Do cyclists generally support the local economy? Find a study....

Since Bicyclers would be enjoying the maintained trail system, along with bridges and the clearing of brush is it not only fair they should have to display a valid snowmobile permit just as ATV's do to some degree (bylaw idea?)

First thing I would research is one of their bike only trails and ask them if you can make that a muti-use trail.

If all else fails, a last ditch effort to show the selfishness of the bicycle club would be the proposal of co-operation pact which would allow the portion of DNR snowmobile trail in question to be opened to bicyclists and a large portion of the "Wilderness Lakes Non-Motorized Trail System" to be opened up to Snowmobile....... Any money they say no

 

[tealracing16]

Well just this morning in Green Bay I was about to leave a four way stop, its 5:20AM by the way, and I give one last glance to the left and here comes a bike doing 30 and doesn't even slow down for the stop sign. I love to ride a bike in the woods, but would never, ever want to ride on blacktop.

If they let this go through I refuse to spend money around watersmeet again, and I only go there once a year. I'll go to Houghton or Munising, somewhere that they like us spending all that money.

Mrs. R: How much gas do they buy when riding, how much money do they spend on food at local taverns, how much do they pay for slow season hotel rooms, how much do they pay for trial passes. You have said they have a lot of facts, but the fact is we spend more and money always talks.

I hope this works out for us.

 

[mrsrunningbear]

Why would any snowmobile club be so blind as allow paving their trail? If you are not any smarter then that, you get what you deserve.

I am tired of these free loader bikers taking over trails. They don't spend money either just as cheap Xcountry skiers are. They use our trails and then get pissed when we pass by them with our smelly, noisey, sleds.

Are you kidding me?

Well just this morning in Green Bay I was about to leave a four way stop, its 5:20AM by the way, and I give one last glance to the left and here comes a bike doing 30 and doesn't even slow down for the stop sign. I love to ride a bike in the woods, but would never, ever want to ride on blacktop.

If they let this go through I refuse to spend money around watersmeet again, and I only go there once a year. I'll go to Houghton or Munising, somewhere that they like us spending all that money.

Mrs. R: How much gas do they buy when riding, how much money do they spend on food at local taverns, how much do they pay for slow season hotel rooms, how much do they pay for trial passes. You have said they have a lot of facts, but the fact is we spend more and money always talks.

I hope this works out for us.

WOW I hope this isn't true, because if it does go thru we/the club will need more help than ever to find another way, thats how its done... find a spot aquire the land, make it a trail, loose the trail and start all over again. It happens all the time. Don't walk away HELP!

The internet provides a way for everyone to learn about what the clubs go thru and have gone thru for years. And a way for us/the clubs to get some help. All the questions get answered by who?? finding facts by who??? volunteers.. these are things that clubs need help with! 10 people get tired real fast!!

How many people have ever been to a club meeting in the UP where you ride? How many people were at the meeting? more than 15 ? not likely, so 10 to 15 people (give or take a few) in each area give you what you love GREAT TRAILS

There have been great trails to ride on for how many years?? and who makes them??? how many trips have been canceled because there are no trails???

Sorry sometimes things just set you off a little...

On behalf of the club we do appreciate all the help we really do!!! Things tend to get done eaiser with more people! Thanks

 

[Hoosier]

If this goes through, I think we need to make sure that the bikes have $35 stickers, that they have to stop at ALL stop signs (I would say on a bike, a stop is defined as having two feet on the ground and the spandex off the seat), and the DNR will be required to spend as much effort enforcing this as they do to snowmobiles.

 

[1-snowbullet]

Ok I snowmobile and Atv But im to lazy to ride a bike .. but when I was growing up off road biking was fun PAVED TRAILS was none exsistant .. How is that going to effect our eco system and little cridders that live on our trail system when they pave the woods .. I think its a BAD Idea .. One of our co. workers is a full blown biker and as for bike rules there are practically none .. i dont get it why the heck would you pave a trail threw the woods and loose precious revanue in your area all sledders and atvers over time will not come threw your area no more .. a biker doesnt really stop at a local watering hole and belly up or what have you they carry there own food and drinking substances in a back pack .. They also dont like to share the road or trail I always thought cars had the right away and bikes had to get off to the side of the road man was i wrong ..so all in all what do you want in your area bikers or atv's and sleds at least we buy state stickers and gas and ect ect . you make bikers spend for a sticker i bet you wont see a bike on the trail yaa they say yaa but in reality it will be a loss for everyone .. they want to ride on paved trails plenty of roads out there and they want off roading plenty of trails just no pavment thats off roading dirt mud rocks ect.. in my book ..

 

[mezz]

I don't see an issue with the Multi-Use designation, however, I do not agree with paving it, that is a road to disaster for motorized use. Sharing the trail is not a bad idea, however, the cyclists need to be aware that this section of trail is indeed an unpaved "Multi-Use" section which includes ATV's during this time period. IMO, if they want a paved trail, then they need to go through the hoops like everyone else & work to establish one of their own, one which will not interfere with any adjacent ATV/Snowmobile trail. My concern is if you give them a foot, they will take a mile & the Muli-Use designation will exclude motorized use in short order. I seriously doubt that the cyclists will bring in a ton of revenue to a given area. Definetly not on the level of the snowmobile & ATV users. Hopefully the Township is smart enough to realize this loss potential. It doesn't take graphs & pie charts to understand that. The local business owners need to speak up, as they will ultimately be the losers.-Mezz

 

[xcr440]

IMO, if they want a paved trail, then they need to go through the hoops like everyone else & work to establish one of their own, one which will not interfere with any adjacent ATV/Snowmobile trail. My concern is if you give them a foot, they will take a mile & the Muli-Use designation will exclude motorized use in short order.

This has been the case in too many places. If every place the bicyclists have taken this tactic were layed out in examples, the list would be 10-1 where this does happen vs. not happening.