Need opinion on 4 strokes

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Garrett

Member
I am in the market for a 2004 to 2007 trail sled. I am not a racer but more of just a trail cruiser. I have had 2 cycle sleds for 20 plus years. Never driven a four stroke sled. Are the 4 strokes "heavier" to ride on the trail? Would live to hear from sledders that went from 2 strokes and what they thought of the ride.

Thanks
 
H

harvest1121

Well-known member
What is your budget that will help more.. Have had 4 strokes for the last 20k miles not going back but you will get a lot of opinions.
 
gary_in_neenah

gary_in_neenah

Super Moderator
Staff member
Garrett, I made the switch to 4 strokes in 2011 when I bought the 1200 Rev in the TNT platform. Weight was never an issue as the 1200 weighed in comparable to the 700 cc 2 Strokes. Last year I downsized to the 900 ACE in Ski Doo's Blizzard. Here's what I've learned over the last few years....

Regardless of brand, they're pretty much all "gas and go". Very reliable, no smoke and quiet. Doing 60+ all you hear is the wind. There's a short learning curve on your first ride due to the engine braking. Some models more and some less but it is different from a 2 Stroke. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the weight, they're getting lighter and lighter all the time. Some brands and models are heavier than others but it shouldn't be a big factor in your decision.
I change the oil and filter once a year at the end of the season, clean her up and put her away for the summer.

Circle back and let us know what you decide on.

Gary
 
W

wirev

New member
2011 1200 renegade for me as well. Love it. Only thing I would do different now is go to the 900 turbo. Sled is a dream on the trails. Top end like a 2 stoke 600 but huge torque out of the gate.
 
gary_in_neenah

gary_in_neenah

Super Moderator
Staff member
(Engine Braking)Correct spelling. Same as when you let up on the throttle of a 4 Wheeler. The slower engine rpms slows down your momentum/speed but it's not that noticeable on the snowmobiles. It's a smoother deceleration when you let off the throttle.

Rev is correct. Enough torque to stretch your arms like a monkey's. (you'll be smiling like one too)
 
xsledder

xsledder

Active member
I have been running 4s since 2007 and the only 2s I buy are my vintage. The older 4s had real bad engine braking. The Cat T660 and Yamaha Phazer are have some of the worst engine braking that I have owned. But you learn how to use it.

Instead of letting go of the throttle, you back it off of it easily. In fact, if you find a Cat T660 with the turbo and after playing with the throttle for a few hundred miles, the machine is a blast. You learn how to use the engine braking to your advantage. For example, gently let off the throttle before the corner to slow you down then halfway in the turn hit the throttle hard, the turbo spools up and the skis leave the ground. Get the two-up because the extra track helps with traction and the extra drive sprockets cuts down on track ratcheting.

Or find a machine with the Nytro motor in it and engine braking is very manageable. I can't tell you how the Doo's are, but I understand the engine braking on the 1200's and 900's is not bad.

As far as weight goes, if you run them really hard at trail speeds exceeding 70 mph, you will tire early. If you are going to ride them a reasonable trail speed, you won't notice the weight. In fact, the sleds are more forgiving when they hit those surprise bumps because of the extra weight.
 
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twistgrip

Member
I have had many 2 strokes over the years and many many burn downs to go with them. I ride a lot of off trail in Da UP mind you. I had an 2009 2 stroke sled that burned down again back in 2013, I had to make a change either be done or get a 4 stroke. I needed a couple years of problem free. I got towed over to M&M and left with a new 2013 Yamaha Nytro 1.75 track, needless to say I was like a little kid in a candy store. I rode that sled with major confidence in the motor, just loved it. Only problem is off trail is where you really notice the weight difference, I could do a lot with it but at the end of the day I was wiped out. I am back on a new 2 stroke as they seem to be a lot better with fuel injection and all that garb you know. If and when the time comes that I am strictly back to trails full time with no off trail I will be right back on a 4 stroke. I never noticed weight as a factor on the trail at all. Hope this helps.
 
G

G

Guest
Go get yourself a 2004-2007 Vector. Cheap now and pretty much bulletproof. The Apexes of that era had a few chronic issues like exhaust manifold leakage that was not enjoyable to fix. Also they didn't put power steering on the Apex until later. The Vector is a little lighter and also gets better mileage than the Apex. I have had a lot of experience with both. However I have no experience on 'Doos but they sell a lot of them for a reason. Have heard nothing but good about the 1200's. Newer 2 strokers a lot better overall because of electronic fuel management systems but then you are looking to put a '1' in front of your intended purchase price. As far as weight they are ALL heavy when you get them stuck.
 
S

slowsi00

New member
I have had an 08 Apex rtx
I currently have an 13 Apex XTX


Power steering is worth it.

I ride the wife's renegade 600 and complain about how hard it is to turn after riding something with power steering.

I have 16,000 miles combined on my apex's and haven't had an issue that left me stranded, I am going back to two stroke because I no longer enjoy trail riding like I used to. I am not looking forward to 2stroke issues again.
 
N

nc666

New member
Garrett said:
I am in the market for a 2004 to 2007 trail sled. I am not a racer but more of just a trail cruiser. I have had 2 cycle sleds for 20 plus years. Never driven a four stroke sled. Are the 4 strokes "heavier" to ride on the trail? Would live to hear from sledders that went from 2 strokes and what they thought of the ride.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I switched to a 4 stroke a couple years , will never go back to a 2. It's time to ban those nasty smelling , gas guzzling , noisy unreliable dinosaurs.
 
O

old abe

Well-known member
Absolutely ride it, before you buy it!!! There is a weight issue up front, that varies in the different sleds. Some riders it doesn't bother, or notice as much as others do. You'll want to buy, and end up with what you will enjoy riding. We have both 4-stroke, and 2-stroke, and enjoy both. Our 4-stroke sled is a SD Rene 900 ACE. It is one of the "lighter weight" 4-strokes available, but still heavier up front that the 2-strokes.
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
Garrett from what you said about trail riding an older Yamaha Vector or Nytro will fit your budget. The Vector is just like the Apex but only 125hp which is plenty for your riding style and more on the sit in design. You will need a riser to stand up. The Nytro is a stand up ditch banger lots of low end snort and a fun slammer sled easy to jump and play with. I wouldn’t worry about engine braking it is a very useful feature and hardly touch the break when you adjust to it. All Vectors, Apex and Nytros dart so hopefully the previous owner took care of the ski problem but if not lots of carbide and ski cures for the problem. I went to 4s from 2s 12 years ago and will never go back to 2s and all the breakdowns. Lots of help here to set up any 4s sleds. Stay away from the Polaris 4s they had problems and were discontinued.
 
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bogiewheel

Member
This is the same question as "Ginger or Mary Ann?". Having logged many miles on each (sleds), I can only agree with everything stated above which is making me realize that I want both. (again referring to the sleds as I am not aware of any place that allows polygyny and has snow)
 
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whitedust

Well-known member
bogiewheel said:
This is the same question as "Ginger or Mary Ann?". Having logged many miles on each (sleds), I can only agree with everything stated above which is making me realize that I want both. (again referring to the sleds as I am not aware of any place that allows polygyny and has snow)
Click to expand...

I believe Utah meets your requirements! Lol
 
D

Deleted member 10829

Guest
In the years you are looking at, 2004-2007, there will be a big weight difference, usually about 80 pounds and it's all up front. You feel that after riding the trails all day and if they are tight and twisty, it's a workout and no way to keep up with a 2s. There are pros and cons to both. I would definitely ride one first.
 
M

mrbb

Well-known member
also the yrs your looking at there will also be a LOT of difference in rider seating/position
I personally would rather a two stroke of a new rider position than any 4 stroke of that generation
I have a 2015 XF 7000 4 stroke
and I will tell you this, YES 100 % the extra weight is noticeable over a two stroke, IF your on bumpy trailers(think lots of modals high traffic ) and or on TIGHT narrow twisty trails
IMO they will get you twice as sore at the end of a long day than the 2 stroke of like HP models will(even larger HP 23 strokes will be less fatiguing)

BUT on good wider smoother trails, there is NOT much of a difference in ride and effort to ride them

rider seating on the newer 4 strokes is what makes them so close, older 4 strokes I think will wear you out a LOT more sooner,a s you just don't sit in such a great position to adjust for bumps and , go from sitting/standing as easy to help absorb trail bumps/chatter/mogals

and there heavier than some of the current 4 strokes
think at it like this when fully fueled up, most 4 strokes are closer to a 100 lbs heavier than NOT
than like HP 2 strokes, there is just NO getting past this weight
I like my current 4 stroke sled too, so NOT bashing 4 strokes, just being honest here
it is what it is, an extra 100 lbs is still a 100 lbs your controling period

and just to be clear a 4 stroke is NOT just turn key and go ride, you have most every basic repair as a 2 stroke, you just don't need to carry/add 2 cycle oil, but do have to do a once a yr oil change, so, costs for an oil change , as to how much 2 cycle oil you use, is maybe a wash
Top ends, on the 4 strokes do also wear out, just they can go a LOT longer than a 2 stroke(2 strokes are getting a LOT better here too, but still not the same as a 4 stroke

other wise ALL your other basic sled wear and tear and PM's are the same
clutch, chain case, tracks, skids, bearings and ???

NOW one last thing, NOT all 4 strokes are quiet, them Doo Ace motors are the real quiet one's IMO
the rest can be LOUD , and droning at times too, or have a decent performance sound to them
I personally find my sled to be kind of LOUD at SLOW speeds, but add in wind and some speed, its a nicer sounding sound to me!

so, honestly a 4 stroke only real advantage is, longer time between top ends, and well, no two cycle to carry or worry about

don't get caught up in there just turn key and go machine's there NOT
 
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