Need opinion on 4 strokes

[whitedust]

Harvest been riding 4s and the Yoop for a very long time. As Dan said some like to socialize and ride others the time in the saddle is more important socialize when the ride is done. I like both but more time in the saddle is my thing. For me 250 miles is very doable but 350 is a bitch too much in one day.

 

[tomx]

I had an '09 Nytro that I pick up in '12 for $4500 with 2200 miles on it. Then last year I picked up a '14 Viper for $5300 with 450 miles. Both sleds were bought from dealers. My point is that if you shop around you can find a more modern (EFI) 4 stroke for not that much more money.

 

[chunk06]

I had an '09 Nytro that I pick up in '12 for $4500 with 2200 miles on it. Then last year I picked up a '14 Viper for $5300 with 450 miles. Both sleds were bought from dealers. My point is that if you shop around you can find a more modern (EFI) 4 stroke for not that much more money.

I feel sorry for anyone that bought a new viper when they came out and payed even close to MSRP the resale on them are horrible.

 

[old abe]

I got a good buy on a 14 Viper with warranty left so I picked it up to try one out. Impressive on groomed trails , but that’s where it stops. Riding ditches and fields to get to the trails where not fun. Got it stuck once and it was **** to get out. Tipped it over once in a ditch and I almost had to roll it completely over to get it up right. Had the starter issue that took out the stator even though the dealer said it was the updated reflash, two weeks out. I can not figure out why they had these issues on the early vipers when they used this engine for years in other sleds. Only upside to me was being able to run wide open down the river with no worries, but my wife snuck past me on her Indy 600! So in my opinion unless you’re a high mile groomed trail rider the smokers are still the way to go

The Viper is not a very well balanced/handling sled as the engine and chassis were not designed as to be together. More less a shoehorned/kitted sled. You have to design from the get go to be balanced, and handle properly. And with the tech today, that's what riders want. Such as the Poo Axys. We rode long miles in March of 18 with a YamiWinder, it was as the Viper, he was always more than ready for a break, and dead at the end of the day. It was a shorty too. However, it was UNREAL, bad xxx fast where able to ride as such.

 

[snobuilder]

The Viper is not a very well balanced/handling sled as the engine and chassis were not designed as to be together. More less a shoehorned/kitted sled. You have to design from the get go to be balanced, and handle properly. And with the tech today, that's what riders want. Such as the Poo Axys. We rode long miles in March of 18 with a YamiWinder, it was as the Viper, he was always more than ready for a break, and dead at the end of the day. It was a shorty too. However, it was UNREAL, bad xxx fast where able to ride as such.

Well stated ... when the new Sidewinder remained in the 2012 chassis, I was What the heck....Cat can build a good chassis. I was let down that they just ran the Yamaha triple with new plumbing in the old frame. That mill deserves it's own cage.
Maybe Cat realizes that there isn't a really good way to disguise too much weight. It just can't be done. But as many have asked for.....I think if you leave it in the old Cat chassis at least adapt the PS to it.

 

[1fujifilm]

You'll never make that run on that new ride bear as too many stops for fuel, eh??? Ha ha!!!

Ouch, that will be a wake-up call. Think I can get 18 MPG on the 18 Po 800?

I used my Polaris buy one gallon of oil get one free coupon at Kens yesterday, so all I need is gas now. 2 gallons of VES for $52.49 includes tax.

Bear

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I feel sorry for anyone that bought a new viper when they came out and payed even close to MSRP the resale on them are horrible.

I agree, might as well as throw the Winder in that group too.

Bear

 

[old abe]

Well stated ... when the new Sidewinder remained in the 2012 chassis, I was What the heck....Cat can build a good chassis. I was let down that they just ran the Yamaha triple with new plumbing in the old frame. That mill deserves it's own cage.
Maybe Cat realizes that there isn't a really good way to disguise too much weight. It just can't be done. But as many have asked for.....I think if you leave it in the old Cat chassis at least adapt the PS to it.

Yami needed "something new" snowbuilder. Problem is they only went, maybe, "half way new"??? I was one of those who waited intently for "the all new, all Yami". No dice!!! The CG on both the Vipe, and Winder is too high, and other "fitting it in" problems. So the balance/ handling is not there. You can't fix that. Your Apex is better. However, if Yami would develop a new compact design engine, with the power output of the Winder mill, with a new designed chassis, intended to be used together from the get go, they would really have something. But I don't see that happening. And, Textron is going to design, develop, and build their own engine/power for what ever their needs be, with the Weber acquisition. And built in the USA!!! So, AC will probably be the sled mfr. to do it, not Yami. BRP did this same thing with their "ACE" series engines. Compact, and integral designed to be able to use in many power sport applications, and power output needs. Enough of this already!!!

 

[1fujifilm]

Yami needed "something new" snowbuilder. Problem is they only went, maybe, "half way new"??? I was one of those who waited intently for "the all new, all Yami". No dice!!! The CG on both the Vipe, and Winder is too high, and other "fitting it in" problems. So the balance/ handling is not there. You can't fix that. Your Apex is better. However, if Yami would develop a new compact design engine, with the power output of the Winder mill, with a new designed chassis, intended to be used together from the get go, they would really have something. But I don't see that happening. And, Textron is going to design, develop, and build their own engine/power for what ever their needs be, with the Weber acquisition. And built in the USA!!! So, AC will probably be the sled mfr. to do it, not Yami. BRP did this same thing with their "ACE" series engines. Compact, and integral designed to be able to use in many power sport applications, and power output needs. Enough of this already!!!

Abe,
I once test rode a newer model Venture and it almost "bucked me off", felt like I was riding a horse.

Bear

 

[old abe]

Patiently waiting for your evaluations on your new ride fuji. We can be assured you will give to us straight. I could resist giving you a little ribbing!!!

 

[POLARISDAN]

Yami needed "something new" snowbuilder. Problem is they only went, maybe, "half way new"??? I was one of those who waited intently for "the all new, all Yami". No dice!!! The CG on both the Vipe, and Winder is too high, and other "fitting it in" problems. So the balance/ handling is not there. You can't fix that. Your Apex is better. However, if Yami would develop a new compact design engine, with the power output of the Winder mill, with a new designed chassis, intended to be used together from the get go, they would really have something. But I don't see that happening. And, Textron is going to design, develop, and build their own engine/power for what ever their needs be, with the Weber acquisition. And built in the USA!!! So, AC will probably be the sled mfr. to do it, not Yami. BRP did this same thing with their "ACE" series engines. Compact, and integral designed to be able to use in many power sport applications, and power output needs. Enough of this already!!!

geez..when r u guys gonna get it..yami is dead.. my whole life was a yamaha anything..but there sleds r toast..i want my boat yami 150 4 stroke in my grave with me...was a goal finally achieved..but the sleds r done..sorry to write on your death wall

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Abe,
I once test rode a newer model Venture and it almost "bucked me off", felt like I was riding a horse.

Bear

been a while since u been "bucked"..eh frankie?

 

[vx700xtc]

I ride an Apex, as does my 78 year old father. In 2018 we averaged 250 miles a day over 6 days on two different weeks in the western U.P. Started between 8-9am, and back no later than shortly after dark. 350 is plenty doable with good conditions.

 

[G]

After 1 season on a Sidewinder the only problem is the skis. This is a well known problem. There are very few on TY using stock skis. Put a decent ski on it and use stock spring/shock settings and the sled rides and turns like a dream. It is fun to drive. There is no need for power steering. There is very little steering effort. The skis Yami and AC put on the ProCross for Sidewinders and T-Cats are just not suited for tight turns. Maybe they work OK for the lighter ProCross sleds but obviously we are talking more weight for the big turbo. When you try to make the stock skis work you end up cranking springs and shocks way past where they were intended to work. The ride goes away. It sucks to have to go out and spend 500 bucks for new skis but I consider it a small tradeoff. Best sled I have ever owned now.

 

[whitedust]

After 1 season on a Sidewinder the only problem is the skis. This is a well known problem. There are very few on TY using stock skis. Put a decent ski on it and use stock spring/shock settings and the sled rides and turns like a dream. It is fun to drive. There is no need for power steering. There is very little steering effort. The skis Yami and AC put on the ProCross for Sidewinders and T-Cats are just not suited for tight turns. Maybe they work OK for the lighter ProCross sleds but obviously we are talking more weight for the big turbo. When you try to make the stock skis work you end up cranking springs and shocks way past where they were intended to work. The ride goes away. It sucks to have to go out and spend 500 bucks for new skis but I consider it a small tradeoff. Best sled I have ever owned now.

Grub what ski and carbide did you evolve to?

 

[G]

SLP Mohawks. 8 inches 60 degree carbide. These skis are over 7 inches wide. They look like a mountain ski. The stock Tuner 3's on the Sidewinder were only about 5 inches wide. They do not float up on the snow ever. They dig. When it comes time to turn they are completely unpredictable. Sometimes you turn, sometimes you don't. They are dangerous. AC single keel skis are a little better but not much. No matter what I put on for carbide they push. Dual carbide, single carbide even snowtrackers. I don't even have studs and it still pushed. Kip did state that they don't have much trouble with stock skis in the UP. They work fine there. But there is always more snow and the trails are not as tight as they are in NW Wisc where I ride. Now I have my suspension back to mostly factory settings so I get to use all the travel and get to enjoy the good shocks. It really is amazing that skis can make that much of a difference. But they do. Oh by the way. I have some Tuner 3's for sale if anybody likes to blow through corners at speeds over 30.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

I've been reading about Yamaha's ski issues for years. Why in the heck can't they put out a decent ski or use a ski from SLP or another? I don't get it.

 

[slowsi00]

With power steering 350 is not that big of a deal. I think 450-500 in the w.up is doable with eps always leave before the sun comes up.

My fav ride is from gogebic lodge to big bay and back approx 340-380 miles round trip.

The apex with EPS is the ultimate long mileage sled.

 

[old abe]

As grub has stated, I have heard nothing but good results with the SLP "Mohawk" ski's. They seem to work on many different sleds. Seen quite a few sleds with them in the UP the last few seasons. Sounds like a real fix for the Winder/TCat. Not too much $$$ for a good fix to get your suspension back to where it works like its intended to. Ski's do make a difference.

 

[Cirrus_Driver]

geez..when r u guys gonna get it..yami is dead.. my whole life was a yamaha anything..but there sleds r toast..i want my boat yami 150 4 stroke in my grave with me...was a goal finally achieved..but the sleds r done..sorry to write on your death wall

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been a while since u been "bucked"..eh frankie?

 

[G]

It would not surprise me at all if Yami just faded away after this season. The sled biz is a dying thing. There are already Yami dealers that don't even sell sleds. Textron will just use the TRF factory to make their Stampedes. Just look at this site. It is largely composed of 50 plus guys. When we are done riding there is going to be an even larger void. Not to take anything away from you younger guys on the site. Very glad you are here and out riding. I wish we had the tech that is available out there now back when I was young. Plus all the interconnected trails. I still think it is a great sport and one that a person can still do long after your basketball and football days are done. If they quit making Yami's then my next sled will be a different color I guess. Not going to get too excited about it.

 

[Tracker]

its more the shocks and track angle settings...not the skis...go to SETUP TIPS FROM THE PROS at the bottom...like I always say...lengthen the limiter...get the track flatter on the ground...ratchet up ski pressure on front shocks....tighten them until its so stiff the sled does not move when ya get on it...steve martin is all aboot mountain sleds and sidehilling....but this also applies to trail riding...except the get on top of snow thing he mentions....center shock needs to remain soft or middle setting...and use dual side by side 4 inch carbides....not long ones at all..especially if no studs....8 inches carbide will push all day everyday and are no good....they create too much drag and push...they create fatigue at handle bars...and on and on....the track with lengthened limiter straps almost eliminates all push ALONG with 4 inch carbide side by side duals ONLY....CAT STOCK OEM SKIS are the best IMO...the same ones that come on an XF CROSSTREK...look at that width and specs....good luck with it


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