New Roofing, Well Worth the Cash

[garyl62]

I've needed a new roof for a couple years. Been arguing with the previous shingle manufacturer about warranty issues, then the insurance company about hail damage all to no avail yet, but the time came to just put the new one on and produce the receipts should I ever convince IKO their organic shingles from the 90's were junk.

I planned to do it myself but I had a guy quote it that did a neighbors and he took quite a bit off his price since I was paying for it myself. Ended up costing me about $1,500 more to have them do it, and I have about a 26 square 9/12 hip roof. They showed up at 7:00 this morning, by noon it was 85 degrees and climbing, but by 1:30 they had completely finished! Stripped it all off, installed everything and cleaned the whole place up. It would have taken me two weekends to do what they finished in 3/4 of a day. Well worth the extra money it cost.

Best part is that was the last major job on the honey do list so now I can start dropping hints about sleds and trailers again!

 

[ezra]

well I guess we can expect a record hail storm in Rockford IL in the next few days then.

 

[lenny]

I've needed a new roof for a couple years. Been arguing with the previous shingle manufacturer about warranty issues, then the insurance company about hail damage all to no avail yet, but the time came to just put the new one on and produce the receipts should I ever convince IKO their organic shingles from the 90's were junk.

I planned to do it myself but I had a guy quote it that did a neighbors and he took quite a bit off his price since I was paying for it myself. Ended up costing me about $1,500 more to have them do it, and I have about a 26 square 9/12 hip roof. They showed up at 7:00 this morning, by noon it was 85 degrees and climbing, but by 1:30 they had completely finished! Stripped it all off, installed everything and cleaned the whole place up. It would have taken me two weekends to do what they finished in 3/4 of a day. Well worth the extra money it cost.

Best part is that was the last major job on the honey do list so now I can start dropping hints about sleds and trailers again!

great Gary! How many guys? How many Americans,,,lol

 

[gary_in_neenah]

3/4 of a day is impressive!! I agree Gary, $1,500 with no climbing, sore muscles, flat thumbs, and a huge mess is well worth it. What you do now is find a chair, some shade, and a cold beer while you sit and admire your new roof.

 

[garyl62]

great Gary! How many guys? How many Americans,,,lol

Ten guys, and lets just say I didn't check citizenship but I'm guessing zero Americans.

 

[garyl62]

3/4 of a day is impressive!! I agree Gary, $1,500 with no climbing, sore muscles, flat thumbs, and a huge mess is well worth it. What you do now is find a chair, some shade, and a cold beer while you sit and admire your new roof.

Better yet I worked at my shop for the morning, came home to check on them, then after they left took a nap for an hour. Now I'll grill a steak and sit in that chair and pat myself on the back for making such a good decision!

 

[lenny]

Hey Gary, I'm glad the job didn't break the bank but beware. Not trying to be a bum and put a damper on your excitement, especially since you are a personal friend but I have been around these large crew, bang out the job shops and see all kinds of BS. I hope the best for you and odds are you'll be fine but time will tell. I have seen guys gun nail so fast they miss the nailing flange buy over an inch and there goes your warrenty. It is impossible for guys who go so fast to maintain top quality. Nowm not saying this did indeed happen to you and hopefully all went well, I seriously mean that but like I said, I have seen these company's hire many guys and bang em out. It's a real problem in drywall and has been spreading to all the trades but bottom line is the quality goes way down, cheap materials, poor installs,,,etc. I was out bid on a large roof job last year but a by a shop that bought some crap lifetime warranty shingles from Menard's, miss-nailed the entire roof and shingles blew off in 4 different places. The homeowner was told by the contractor that he couldn't come back to fix the roof because the homeowner insisted to install the roof in Nov when it was cold and blamed it on the tar tabs not being laid down by the suns heat,,,,lol. A few weeks later I wasa driving home and the owner was doing the repairs himself and had a small load of the old shingles torn off and on the ground so I stopped by and said hi. The roofer missed the white line on 4 of the 5 nails and that was why they were blowing off.

Manpower is good for little if quality is compromised. All is contributes to is a larger and faster mess that takes more time to fix the second time around.

Again, not trying to scare you or bash the contractor but you'd be seriously surprised o how often this sort of thing happens with this size crew who bang out the jobs. How much do you think each guy made? How much did the contractor pay in to social security, state tax, FICA, un-employment, workman's comp,,etc. It is a vicious cycle and in a time when the economy is in the dumper as it is, it's hard to not pay more for a quality shop but at the same time it also contributes to the economic dump. Maybe your contractor was a quality shop and legit but good chance it falls into the norm in what we often see in the industry

 

[skiroule]

Gary, I say crack another cold one and not worry about it.

Bad work is bad work and good work is good work no matter who does it. Some years ago we had a major hailstorm and everyone got new roofs. I went with a company that my agent recommended. I won't even get into the nightmare it turned out to be but it was done by a crew of 2 1/2 and they weren't playing festive music. My neighbors on either side of me had theirs done by large crews playing festive music and they have had zero problems. To add insult to injury, theirs were done in a day. Mine took a week and I ended up with leaks and water damage. The company claimed the water damage was pre-existing and wouldn't fix it. Since I couldn't prove it, I let it ride and fixed it myself (among other issues I had to fix).

Ultimately it all comes down to the contractor and the standards and ethics by which they operate. I learned the hard way that unethical companies come in all forms. It seems like you had some advance information about this roofing company and that works in your favor.

 

[lenny]

Gary, I say crack another cold one and not worry about it.

Bad work is bad work and good work is good work no matter who does it. Some years ago we had a major hailstorm and everyone got new roofs. I went with a company that my agent recommended. I won't even get into the nightmare it turned out to be but it was done by a crew of 2 1/2 and they weren't playing festive music. My neighbors on either side of me had theirs done by large crews playing festive music and they have had zero problems. To add insult to injury, theirs were done in a day. Mine took a week and I ended up with leaks and water damage. The company claimed the water damage was pre-existing and wouldn't fix it. Since I couldn't prove it, I let it ride and fixed it myself (among other issues I had to fix).

Ultimately it all comes down to the contractor and the standards and ethics by which they operate. I learned the hard way that unethical companies come in all forms. It seems like you had some advance information about this roofing company and that works in your favor.

good point skiroule, I wonder if the 10 mexicans were illegal and on the books? Do you see this as a problem as ethics? We cannot say for sure but odds are most were illegal and that my friend is unethical. It is also a major contributing factor to the entire building industry slump. How do legit shops compete with this sort of thing.

At about this time I totally expect someone to jump on the bandwagon and claim "rascism", "Lenny said Mexicans."

 

[jr37]

I work for a company that manufactures the granules that go on shingles. We have had a slow summer, but it is picking up a little now. You guys keep putting roofs on, I need a good paycheck now for a while before the late fall slow down.

 

[whitedust]

Good luck with shingle manufacturer or roofer warranty! Be happy they got it done quickly & hope for the best. Roofers come & go & always look at work they have done before you agree to anything. I had 1 tear off & reroof & the contractor was a nightmare to deal with so had to hire another roofer to fix the screwups just like Lenny said. I hope all works out well for you .....time will tell.

 

[Woodtic]

I know your not a racist Lenny,you told me last week how much you missed the football sized burritos .

 

[garyl62]

Well we'll see how it stands up. I've seen a couple other jobs they have done they are ok, but nothing long term yet. They did provide me with their work comp cert, license, and page of over 30 references from the past year. I called two and they were positive but why give a reference of someone that isn't happy. I'm not saying I watched them do everything, and I could be screwed, but I'm hoping for the best. I had got 5 quotes over the past year and this guys original quote was in the high end of range of quotes I had. When he heard I was a contractor in the past, still did a little side work, and was planning to do it myself he knocked 2 grand off the price which is what made me decide to go with him. I asked him how/why the price drop and he said they had done a lot of work 15 miles north of me but wanted more references in my area and he hoped he'd get some referrals from me in the future with the contacts I may have so he basically did it for cost.

All that sounds good but could just be a line to get the work.

When I did watch them it was obvious each guy had a specific job and they knew it well. Since I have a hip roof, they split into 3 crews, one guy opened bundles and fed shingles down to a staging guy on each side of the roof, he then fed the set-up guy who laid it in place for the nailer. Looked very efficient but I wasn't standing over them looking at where the nails hit.

As far as the legal vs illegal debate, I don't know. It bothers me if they are illegal but what am I to do? I have all the proper paperwork from the business owner, if I asked for id from his workers you bet they could all show me a drivers license but how do I know, you can buy those pretty easily downtown. Now we get into the profiling and such. One of my best framers is a legal US citizen, but is Mexican, if you drove by the job site you'd hear the fiesta music and Spanish all day long. I'm sure most people would think he's illegal.

Not sure what to do, but I agree with Lenny, this is a problem particularly in the construction arena.

 

[anonomoose]

Latino.... help won't get sorted out until our government does spot checks on companies that use them and punish the employer for not keeping a close eye on legals vs. illegals.

Not to worry....we are gunna double up the guard along the border with billions on the payroll...which means most of these illegals will have a legit job doin border protection pretty soon. Then they will have to do the roofing and drywall jobs after hours and on Sundays.

Dang funny how all this works, isn't it?

 

[lenny]

Well we'll see how it stands up. I've seen a couple other jobs they have done they are ok, but nothing long term yet. They did provide me with their work comp cert, license, and page of over 30 references from the past year. I called two and they were positive but why give a reference of someone that isn't happy. I'm not saying I watched them do everything, and I could be screwed, but I'm hoping for the best. I had got 5 quotes over the past year and this guys original quote was in the high end of range of quotes I had. When he heard I was a contractor in the past, still did a little side work, and was planning to do it myself he knocked 2 grand off the price which is what made me decide to go with him. I asked him how/why the price drop and he said they had done a lot of work 15 miles north of me but wanted more references in my area and he hoped he'd get some referrals from me in the future with the contacts I may have so he basically did it for cost.

All that sounds good but could just be a line to get the work.

When I did watch them it was obvious each guy had a specific job and they knew it well. Since I have a hip roof, they split into 3 crews, one guy opened bundles and fed shingles down to a staging guy on each side of the roof, he then fed the set-up guy who laid it in place for the nailer. Looked very efficient but I wasn't standing over them looking at where the nails hit.

As far as the legal vs illegal debate, I don't know. It bothers me if they are illegal but what am I to do? I have all the proper paperwork from the business owner, if I asked for id from his workers you bet they could all show me a drivers license but how do I know, you can buy those pretty easily downtown. Now we get into the profiling and such. One of my best framers is a legal US citizen, but is Mexican, if you drove by the job site you'd hear the fiesta music and Spanish all day long. I'm sure most people would think he's illegal.

Not sure what to do, but I agree with Lenny, this is a problem particularly in the construction arena.

Gary, you did the best you can do. If I were to get a quote for a contractor I highly doubt I would ask if all his employees are legal. There's not a lot the homeowner can do. Sounds like the guys that did the job were working smart from what you mentioned and that's a good thing. IMO the biggest part of roofing is proper nailing, following code, example: here in Mi we are required to have the ice and water shield extend 3 ft into the heated side of the wall. Usually 2 courses (72") will cover even steep roofs. Flashing is critical,,as my buddy always said, "you gotta think like water." Having a vented soffit and ridge while eliminating the gable vents are important. Good quality shingles are important. Anyone ever used "elk" shingles, not sure how they are now but few years back they were great for the money.

 

[ezra]

good point skiroule, I wonder if the 10 mexicans were illegal and on the books? Do you see this as a problem as ethics? We cannot say for sure but odds are most were illegal and that my friend is unethical. It is also a major contributing factor to the entire building industry slump. How do legit shops compete with this sort of thing.

At about this time I totally expect someone to jump on the bandwagon and claim "rascism", "Lenny said Mexicans."

I will say it they were prob Mexicans and more than likely have a ss card with a name like tom Tuttle on it. now if he was getting a sheetrock or paint job and said he had a crew of illegals I would guess Russian or Mexican but roofing always mexico.
I am always shocked when I see some of those guys with there foam pad on a 12/12 hand nailing with that tin container around there neck almost as fast as his buddy with a gun.
Make no mistake the guys running some of these crews make a shocking amount of money.
I know 1 semi illegal crew roofing the guy who runs them is legal .running around in his 12 loaded f450 4 door or his 13 king ranch 250. over 600k a yr in sales. not bad for just holding a green card.
it is true It is almost imposable to hire a total legit roofing crew now days, and the ones who are all legal cost more and usually have young inexperienced kids on the roof. I hire them both and honestly feel I get better results from the Mexicans but certain neighborhoods don't want to see that sort of thing on or around there neighborhood and are willing to pay

 

[POLARISDAN]

I can tell firsthand that nobody works harder than the Mexican roofing crews and they earn every penny. i deal with them every day..if our welfare rolls worked 1% as hard as they do we wuldnt be in the debt crisis we r in..its the freeloaders not the Mexicans that are the problem

 

[lenny]

I can tell firsthand that nobody works harder than the Mexican roofing crews and they earn every penny. i deal with them every day..if our welfare rolls worked 1% as hard as they do we wuldnt be in the debt crisis we r in..its the freeloaders not the Mexicans that are the problem

..its the freeloaders not the Mexicans that are the problem. If they are illegal, than they are just that,,illegal!

no doubt there is truth to your statement BUT in the 80's a huge influx of illegals hit the US and builders everywhere fell in love with them,,,,,that was the biggest impact into the decline of the legit construction companies. Times change and we are where we are. If you are an honest guy all you can do is bid a job giving your best price, do the best job you know how and hopefully a reputation will come that will sustain the business.

We have also seen a huge increase of free loaders, simple decline of morality, decaying society, corrupt authority,,,etc GOOD LUCK PEOPLE!

Maybe you are correct in the Mexicans working extremely hard. The US has a spoiled, stuckup, snooty attitude, expecting entitlements. This attitude has evolved to a lazy workforce. Bloated unions with unsustainable wages. The environmentalists strangling everybody with never ending regulations.

WE ARE SCREWED PEOPLE!

 

[garyl62]

... here we go.... let the fireworks begin!

(although there is a lot of truth there Lenny, and even after re-reading your post I can't find anything I disagree with)

 

[POLARISDAN]

then so be it..let the illegals stay..id trade every illegal, family oriented, hard working one for every crack smoking, welfare cheating, broken down family one for one any day