New Yamahas Tomorrow

[xsledder]

Six model years is short lived?? (08-14)....There have been no belt failures that I know of....I think you are confusing the Viper with the Cat Turbo...the Viper uses yamaha clutches...not cat clutches...yamaha clutches are not belt eaters.

See my reply to whitedust about the belt issue. It was a compliment using reverse pyschology. Not ripping on Yamaha (or Cat for that matter). I'm glad to see they didn't have to change anything to address a design flaw, that way I'll feel better if I buy a non-current Viper.

And I personally thought that Yamaha would replace the Apex or Vector before discontinuing the Nytro. That is my litmus test for determining short lived. Again, more of a shock than a rip on Yamaha.

(Relax, I have two '07 Phazers, I'm not a Yami hater.)

 

[Attak man]

See my reply to whitedust about the belt issue. It was a compliment using reverse pyschology. Not ripping on Yamaha (or Cat for that matter). I'm glad to see they didn't have to change anything to address a design flaw, that way I'll feel better if I buy a non-current Viper.

And I personally thought that Yamaha would replace the Apex or Vector before discontinuing the Nytro. That is my litmus test for determining short lived. Again, more of a shock than a rip on Yamaha.

(Relax, I have two '07 Phazers, I'm not a Yami hater.)

No problem...I was confused by what you were saying....IMO..the Apex and Vector are better sleds for their application (groomed trail sleds) than the nytro was for it's application (rough trail-snow cross sled)...I think Yamaha hung on to those sleds...because people liked em.

 

[xsledder]

..the Apex and Vector are better sleds for their application (groomed trail sleds) than the nytro was for it's application (rough trail-snow cross sled)...

I'll agree with that statement.

 

[fusion]

I think yami is on its way out of the sled business as far as a sole manufacturer. Apex vector and phazer reamain all yami. No new investment on those products. Nytro gone. Only thing somewhat but not really new is the yamacat. Basically
Yamaha is not looking to build all new sleds from the ground up. Thats blatantly obvious. I saw a chart on ty4 that shows sleds slaes for the big 4 ober the last 15 years. Yamaha and cat in steady decline. Even worse for yamaha is they only have 5% of the market share. Cant say i blame them for not wanting to invest in the sled biz. What a shame. Maybe i'll be proved wrong in the next couple of years but it doesnt look good at this point. Just my $.02

Ski-Doo and Polaris are the two 900 lb. gorilla's in snowmobiling market. I wouldn't look anywhere else for a new sled, other than possibly a Vector. But Vector is pretty much only geared toward groomed trail and doesn't do very well in the rough. (yes I own one, and I like it, as long as the trails are groomed with limited mogul)

 

[snobuilder]

First she got heavy and now she lies to me.....the yami-love affair is nearing a break-up and it's not me.... it's her.

 

[whitedust]

I think yami is on its way out of the sled business as far as a sole manufacturer. Apex vector and phazer reamain all yami. No new investment on those products. Nytro gone. Only thing somewhat but not really new is the yamacat. Basically
Yamaha is not looking to build all new sleds from the ground up. Thats blatantly obvious. I saw a chart on ty4 that shows sleds slaes for the big 4 ober the last 15 years. Yamaha and cat in steady decline. Even worse for yamaha is they only have 5% of the market share. Cant say i blame them for not wanting to invest in the sled biz. What a shame. Maybe i'll be proved wrong in the next couple of years but it doesnt look good at this point. Just my $.02

Sled biz is PITA for for Poo & Yam but keep on keeping on thank goodness! Apex & Vector lines are dialed in could tweak a bit peeps like me like them but could be slight improvements if motivated to do so. AC & Doo sled biz is life blood to them they need it. If you asked me if Yamaha would purchase AC last year I would say "HECK NO" just an OEM Agreement! Now I'm not so sure the Viper Mountain & expansion of 15 Viper line up it is starting to look like AC will be gone & become Yamaha USA Sled division. Next year will be the turning point if no new products from Japan very likely Yamaha will buy AC. Not a good or bad thing but a way for both compainies to morph into one with better products for all us.

 

[ranlam]

Suppose this is why the other big 3 japs dont produce sleds, 1 makes jets for goodness sakes, the other 2 got out of sled biz in the 80's. If they all 4 made sleds they would look exactly the same like the dirtbikes do,basically the same. Except Yami just turned things around literally (motor in backwords, air box where gas tank use to be and gas tank where air box use to be.) So its gonna come down to 3 sled makes in US?

 

[xsledder]

Just like oil, a reccuring topic, here comes the "who's getting out of snowmobiling" thread.

 

[Attak man]

Just like oil, a reccuring topic, here comes the "who's getting out of snowmobiling" thread.

It does none of us any good ...if any one of the four drop out....especially if a HUGE company like Yamaha pulls the plug....However....I do think a Yamaha - Cat merger might be a good thing for both companies...Cat (and Polaris) really don't have the resources that doo, and yamaha have....I guess we will see what plays out in the future.

 

[Team Elkhorn]

Just like oil, a reccuring topic, here comes the "who's getting out of snowmobiling" thread.

Suppose this is why the other big 3 japs dont produce sleds, 1 makes jets for goodness sakes, the other 2 got out of sled biz in the 80's.

Sorry been staying out of this watching everyone work themselves into a hilarious tissy. But I remember when I was riding Yamis in the '90s and they went away from the pogo stick suspensions. But went to the aging trailering arm suspension others were using. The Yami guys were spittin nails! "Yami is selling out for market share!" "I give this arrangement a few years and Yami will get out of the snowmo biz!" .... LOL, I can't help but think Yami should have partnered with Cat back then.
Also, didn't Cat buy out the Kawi and Suzuki snowmo interests and make their sleds the last year or two of production? As well as other popular sled manufacturers over the years? If history repeats itself........
Sorry, carry on with the half truths, BS and Chihuahua leg humping.
Or better yet, just get out and ride. LMAO!

 

[Deleted member 10829]

If I was Polaris, I guess I'd exit the business since it's a "PITA" for them and they don't have enough resources to keep up with Doo and Yamaha! LOL Both of those statements are hilarious. Sleds are a very important part of their business, and I think they have plenty of resources!

 

[Attak man]

If I was Polaris, I guess I'd exit the business since it's a "PITA" for them and they don't have enough resources to keep up with Doo and Yamaha! LOL Both of those statements are hilarious. Sleds are a very important part of their business, and I think they have plenty of resources!

Wow...defensive much??....if you think Polaris has the resources of Yamaha and Ski-doo...then you need to go back to school (and that's putting it as nicely as I can...lol)

 

[Attak man]

Sorry been staying out of this watching everyone work themselves into a hilarious tissy. But I remember when I was riding Yamis in the '90s and they went away from the pogo stick suspensions. But went to the aging trailering arm suspension others were using. The Yami guys were spittin nails! "Yami is selling out for market share!" "I give this arrangement a few years and Yami will get out of the snowmo biz!" .... LOL, I can't help but think Yami should have partnered with Cat back then.
Also, didn't Cat buy out the Kawi and Suzuki snowmo interests and make their sleds the last year or two of production? As well as other popular sled manufacturers over the years? If history repeats itself........
Sorry, carry on with the half truths, BS and Chihuahua leg humping.
Or better yet, just get out and ride. LMAO!

WRONG!!!!! Cat produced Kawi's sled's because they owed Kawi lots of money...long after their agreement expired..and Cat started using Suzuki, so suzuki stopped making sleds by the mid 70's...the cat product was better....and they (suzuki) was supplying the engines...so it made no sense to produce a competitive sled....Cat bought up scorpion which was failing (a bad move)...while john deere entered into an agreement with Kawi...by 1985 all were done....out of business. Cat had to reorganize...and did come back...but in the late 70's they made some strange moves that eventually caught up with them, and caused their failure....

I may be a Yamaha fan (and Cat Fan too)....but it wouldn't surprise me if Yamaha dropped their sled line...how long can you go with such low market share...they have done it alot longer than most companies could...I could see a yamaha /cat merger....it wouldn't surprise me....but I could also see yamaha...blowing people away with something totally new (not this year of course..they are gonna push the viper)...again we shall see.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW Are you guys sure there are NO other new models coming down the pipeline??? Might they be waiting for Cat's release next week...so as not to "let the cat out of the bag"??? Just wondering

 

[Team Elkhorn]

WRONG!!!!! Cat produced Kawi's sled's because they owed Kawi lots of money...long after their agreement expired..and Cat started using Suzuki, so suzuki stopped making sleds by the mid 70's...the cat product was better....and they (suzuki) was supplying the engines...so it made no sense to produce a competitive sled....

If you would, could you tell me where I could find this info in writing? Thanks.

Edit:
Because I read it much differently. And if I am --WRONG!!!!!-- I'll stand corrected.

 

[Deleted member 10829]

I never said they had the resources of Yam or Doo, I said enough resources to keep up. Have u checked market share lately? I think Poo is keeping up, especially vs. Yamaha. I may need to go back to school but I don't twist others statements. BTW, you aren't biased or defensive at all. LOL

 

[helhuf]

I think I will have to try a Viper xtx, I wish it had a little longer track (144) also a more affordable turbo

 

[xsledder]

My personal gut feeling is that Yamaha is buying time using Cat sleds while they develop something new and exciting. Yamaha needs to learn how to go on a diet. I know Cat owned Scorpian but I'm not sure about making Kawi sleds. Cat used Kawi motors in the 70's, but so did JD into the 80's. Suzuki owned a large portion of Cat's stock for quite sometime, and it could have been seen as Suzuki sleds; but Suzuki is not as involved with Cat now. Cat is making a commitment to their sleds, look at their career offerings, so I don't expect Cat to go anywhere. So, I really don't see either one going anytime soon.

I don't think Yamaha would buy Cat. I think Yamaha would like to sell Cat some more motors. Remember, the current 1100 4s is Cat designed, Suzuki built. What if it became Yamaha built?

 

[Attak man]

If you would, could you tell me where I could find this info in writing? Thanks.

Edit:
Because I read it much differently.

Now I will have to dig for it...lol.....it was in one of the sled magazines, and one of the cat books ( I can't remember which one)...Cat owed Kawi money, and agreed to build the Kawi-Snojet sleds in TRF starting with the 1976 model year (and that continued with the Kawi models until they went out of business).

 

[Attak man]

I never said they had the resources of Yam or Doo, I said enough resources to keep up. Have u checked market share lately? I think Poo is keeping up, especially vs. Yamaha. I may need to go back to school but I don't twist others statements. BTW, you aren't biased or defensive at all. LOL

I'm sorry if I come off that way...but I really am not...I have owned all 4 brands in the last 25 years...I really don't dislike any...I would ride any of the new ones...they all have their pluses and minuses....and this is where a good dealer comes in...I have dealt with Chad at M and M, and Kip at Pat's the last 10 years and nobody else...it's a 2 1/2 hour drive to Pat's from my house....and just over 3 hours to M and M from my house...it sucks when a sled goes down...but they take good care of me....and to me that's worth the drive....it just so happens they sell Yamaha and Cat (and now polaris)...so that's what I ride...it's that simple.

- - - Updated - - -

My personal gut feeling is that Yamaha is buying time using Cat sleds while they develop something new and exciting. Yamaha needs to learn how to go on a diet. I know Cat owned Scorpian but I'm not sure about making Kawi sleds. Cat used Kawi motors in the 70's, but so did JD into the 80's. Suzuki owned a large portion of Cat's stock for quite sometime, and it could have been seen as Suzuki sleds; but Suzuki is not as involved with Cat now. Cat is making a commitment to their sleds, look at their career offerings, so I don't expect Cat to go anywhere. So, I really don't see either one going anytime soon.

I don't think Yamaha would buy Cat. I think Yamaha would like to sell Cat some more motors. Remember, the current 1100 4s is Cat designed, Suzuki built. What if it became Yamaha built?

I think that engine is going away....the yami triple is smoother, lighter, and has better performance, and better fuel economy...it's over kill to keep the 1100.

 

[Team Elkhorn]

Now I will have to dig for it...lol.....it was in one of the sled magazines, and one of the cat books ( I can't remember which one)...Cat owed Kawi money, and agreed to build the Kawi-Snojet sleds in TRF starting with the 1976 model year (and that continued with the Kawi models until they went out of business).

I got my info from the last paragraph on page 115 onto page 116 of the Cat History Book. Granted, its a CAT History book. But it was written by CJ Ramstad who is a snowmobile writer, not a Cat guy. Again if I'm WRONG!!!!! please correct me. Because I dont want to add to the BS that gets spread on here.