Open Up Oil Reserves!

[anonomoose]

!

 

[ezra]

I am glad you read my entire post. Oh, wait, you didn't. If you did, you would have read that I said "1/3 of the country driving 50mpg cars". Unless you own 1/3 of the cars in the US, in which case you have alot more money than the rest of us and have no problem paying $4.00 a gallon for gas because, well, you can afford 80 million cars. Or maybe that is why you are so mad, because you have to buy gas for 80 million cars. Either way you have way more money than I could ever dream of, congratulations.

50mpg may indeed one day pull your trailer out west. The direct injected mustang gets 31mpg with 305hp.

is the USA the only country building cars?did not think so and they have been paying top $ in other parts of the world for ever. I have been to Europe more than once and rented a car every time and never seen a gas citron or a fiesta Opel that got 50 . they have no BS EPA so most people run small1 L diesel cars and small diesel suv like the Suzuki or rave 4 diesel.I rented a Lexus suv with a diesel if I could get one in USA would have had one yrs ago but the EPA wont allow it.but they will allow huge diesel tractors that get no mileage to plant/fertilizer made from petroleum/pick corn to make E85 prob that 1 tractor uses way more fuel than 80 Lexus or 150 Suzuki trucks but that is a inconvenient truth

 

[sixball]

Ethenol is not sustainable,takes more energy too produce it than you get out of it.If it was not subsidised by the Fed's it would not exist.

UP RIDER is on the money!!!!!!!!! If I am not riding my doo I am riding a slalom ski. one of my best ski partners is a doctor in chemistry who has done extensive work with gasoline and other fuels. He has said many times it takes more energy to produce Ethanol from corn than you can get out of it.

 

[rocketman356]

i'm against subsidies period, i'm just saying that ethanol requires an extremely higher amount than oil.
why are they subsidizing the oil companies anyway?
why did Obameme give something like 70 million to a foriegn country to use for oil exploration and marketing but yet tie the hands of American companies? (i'll try and find the source story i read last week)
most of the farmers around me can hardly afford to feed thier cattle with the increased costs, they may have to stop providing beef, pork and milk and just grow corn.
we have plenty of oil if the enviro wacko's would let us get it

George Soros payback ,,,,Yaa know the Move On .Org ahole

 

[ezra]

Soros the true puppet master very scary guy! and only a small handfull of people talking about him.

 

[jonesin]

George Soros payback ,,,,Yaa know the Move On .Org ahole

thanks! i don't know if that is the one i read, 2 billion is even more than i remembered, at least i was being CONSERVATIVE and not exagerating

 

[bearrassler]

I think that the price of corn is just as volitale as the price of oil. Brazil uses sugar cane to produce ethanol and the world price of sugar is also through the roof. Also the cost of the energy used to distill the alcohol is going up. Our electric rates just went up 12% and the main reason is that we are getting more electricity from wind power which is a lot more expensive than coal power. Some of the ethanol plants in this area went broke because the price of corn and electricity went up and they couldn't make a profit on it. I do believe that we should look at alternative energy sources but right now the cheapest are oil, coal, and natural gas, also nuclear.

 

[whitedust]

Jobs with Nukes Too!!

 

[anonomoose]

I think that the price of corn is just as volitale as the price of oil. Brazil uses sugar cane to produce ethanol and the world price of sugar is also through the roof. Also the cost of the energy used to distill the alcohol is going up. Our electric rates just went up 12% and the main reason is that we are getting more electricity from wind power which is a lot more expensive than coal power. Some of the ethanol plants in this area went broke because the price of corn and electricity went up and they couldn't make a profit on it. I do believe that we should look at alternative energy sources but right now the cheapest are oil, coal, and natural gas, also nuclear.

It ISN'T about the shortage of sugar, but more to do with traders who were sort of controlled before, but now are allowed to get in and bid....just like oil the bidders often can't take delivery of the product but get in there and screw it up good.

Read this to understand some of the things that you don't read in your local business papers http://www.foxbusiness.com/industri...-ice-exchange-moves-quash-sugar-price-spikes/

Also the USA has tarriff restrictions which protect beet and corn sugars...we pay double for cane sugar than the rest of the world. Soft drink companies are using corn sugar rather than cane sugar.

As to the oil being equal to ethanol, understand that corn ranges between 2.50 a bushel and 7 dollars a bushel a differnce of about 5 bucks. Oil ranges between 55 and 105 a barrel....that's about 50 bucks difference...and that has to work thru to the price at the pump....much more money.

As for ethanol companies going broke....it is a new industry, and some of the so called companies are cooperatives of farmers and other NON-business people and when you get that sort getting into the high test business world, you will find some failures...of this there will be no doubts...but overall the business is healthy and thriving....particularly when the price of oil is as high as it has been.

 

[bobsledder]

Sixball misguided myth

UP RIDER is on the money!!!!!!!!! If I am not riding my doo I am riding a slalom ski. one of my best ski partners is a doctor in chemistry who has done extensive work with gasoline and other fuels. He has said many times it takes more energy to produce Ethanol from corn than you can get out of it.

To learn more about ethanol production visit the link below.

http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmgmt/Issue_Brief_Ethanols_Energy_Balance.pdf

In a nut shell refining ethanol has become much more efficient as has producing the corn. How many new oil refineries have been built in the last 30 years?

To compare apples to apples we should compare all energy costs to explore for oil, pump oil, protect oil, clean up spills and refine the products.

Thanks
Bob

 

[yeffy]

Corn ranges between $2.5 and $7 per bushel, what is that almost a 200% swing, and oil $55 to $105 about 100% swing? That tells me that corn is twice as volatile as oil.

 

[anonomoose]

Corn ranges between $2.5 and $7 per bushel, what is that almost a 200% swing, and oil $55 to $105 about 100% swing? That tells me that corn is twice as volatile as oil.

It's not about precentages....it's all about the dollars. Dollars in....means dollars got to come out.

 

[anonomoose]

To learn more about ethanol production visit the link below.

http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmgmt/Issue_Brief_Ethanols_Energy_Balance.pdf

In a nut shell refining ethanol has become much more efficient as has producing the corn. How many new oil refineries have been built in the last 30 years?

To compare apples to apples we should compare all energy costs to explore for oil, pump oil, protect oil, clean up spills and refine the products.

Thanks
Bob

Spot on Bob....but the grind to discredit, pump mis-information, all in an effort to sway public opinion is in full swing.

I don't particularly like using ethanol either because much of my stuff was designed to run on dino fuels....but I equally don't like bending over and taking up the kester.....either.

Two sources is better than one...and more better still. We work at moving it all back to one source and we deserve to have a sore rump.

 

[cat_man_mike]

I think that the price of corn is just as volitale as the price of oil. Brazil uses sugar cane to produce ethanol and the world price of sugar is also through the roof. Also the cost of the energy used to distill the alcohol is going up. Our electric rates just went up 12% and the main reason is that we are getting more electricity from wind power which is a lot more expensive than coal power. Some of the ethanol plants in this area went broke because the price of corn and electricity went up and they couldn't make a profit on it. I do believe that we should look at alternative energy sources but right now the cheapest are oil, coal, and natural gas, also nuclear.

"wind power, which is a lot more expensive than coal power"? How short sided are you????? The inital cost is there to install the wind farm, but after 3 to 8 years, the energy is free minus the cost of a once a year service. I am sure that a coal plant needs NO MAITENANCE WHATSOEVER. I am not a hippie tree hugger by any stretch of the imagination, but this seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[bearrassler]

Corn ranges between $2.5 and $7 per bushel, what is that almost a 200% swing, and oil $55 to $105 about 100% swing? That tells me that corn is twice as volatile as oil.

It's not about precentages....it's all about the dollars. Dollars in....means dollars got to come out.

I agree with yeffy, it is all about percentages. I don't know how many gallons of gas you get with one barrel of oil or how many gallons of ethanol you get with one bushel of corn but you have to look at it in percentages. If corn is up 200% and oil is up 100% I would say that the oil is less volitale. I am not against ethanol, I run it in my vehicles, my snowmobile, and my boats at 10%. I have not had problems with it and it is good for the farmers. I do believe that you get more energy out of it than you put into it but it is still more expensive than oil, especially domestic oil. With the price of crude going up it should be closer or maybe even cheaper soon but all crop prices go up when more corn is used to make ethanol. The price of corn goes up so more acres of corn are planted. Then there is a shortage of wheat and soybean acres so the price goes up on those also. As for sugar prices a few years ago the world price of sugar ranged from 7.00 to 13.00. It is now over 30.00 per hundredweight. The US sugar program set the price support at 22.90 for beet sugar so we are not paying twice the world price for sugar now. I am not against ethanol and do agree it should be part of the mix but in my opinion the best is still domestic oil, followed by Canadian oil.

 

[ezra]

To learn more about ethanol production visit the link below.

http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmgmt/Issue_Brief_Ethanols_Energy_Balance.pdf

In a nut shell refining ethanol has become much more efficient as has producing the corn. How many new oil refineries have been built in the last 30 years?

To compare apples to apples we should compare all energy costs to explore for oil, pump oil, protect oil, clean up spills and refine the products.

Thanks
Bob

better question to ask your self is why wont the fed allow new refinerys or nucular plants to be built in the last 20 to 30yrs

 

[samc]

better question to ask your self is why wont the fed allow new refinerys or nucular plants to be built in the last 20 to 30yrs

Very true - Fact - It's to bad people don't get that if we shift all the corn production to ethanol, that would only product 30% of the gas needed = still short 70% needed.

 

[anonomoose]

I agree with yeffy, it is all about percentages. I don't know how many gallons of gas you get with one barrel of oil or how many gallons of ethanol you get with one bushel of corn but you have to look at it in percentages. If corn is up 200% and oil is up 100% I would say that the oil is less volitale.

It's not about volatility, it is about what John Q has to pay to pump the stuff into his Packard.

Takes about 21 pounds of corn to make one gallon of fuel, which is denatured with gasoline but we won't count that. It costs about .69 cents a gallon to make the pure stuff. We aren't counting harvesting or delivery fuel costs because that is going into the price of corn to produce it.

Now can't remember how many pounds of corn in a bushel, but seems to me it is about 55-60lbs...which should put this into perspective a bit. So we get about 2.5+ gallons out of a bushel of corn at current production processes. We will also forget about the use of the leavings that can be re-used and sold as an export further reducing the raw cost of the corn.

Now a bushel goes up from $5 to $7 or $2 difference, a 40% increase..causing the raw cost of ethanol to go up about 80 cents...or if the cost goes down by $2 the price drops by .80 cents. Now if oil is $60 barrel or 42 gallons and best refining gets just about half some where between 19.5 gallons to 21.5 gallons depending upon refining processes and quality of crude this means if we do the math, 20.75 gallons divided into $60 gets us $2.89 per gallon and if we assume that heavier fuels come out of the rest of the barrel and the cost of the barrel is say...75% of the price for gasoline, then 75% of the $2.89 would be $2.16 per gallon of gasoline. if the price spikes from $60 to $84 (or 40% increase as in the example with ethanol) cost per gallon of gasoline would then be $3.02 per gallon or in dollars out of your pocket a nice fat 86.4 cents a gallon.

In my mind 86.4 cents it greater than 80 cents for the ethanol, with the same percentage increases. That dollar amount increase significantly the higher oil gets...which today is well above $100 and not $84 as in my example.

I am not against ethanol, I run it in my vehicles, my snowmobile, and my boats at 10%. I have not had problems with it and it is good for the farmers. I do believe that you get more energy out of it than you put into it but it is still more expensive than oil, especially domestic oil.

Problem here is there is NO such thing as domestic oil because oil is sold internationally and the crude pumped next to your backhouse costs just as much as the stuff shipped in from some sandy place in the Mediterranean. We don't have two prices....one price all over the world.

While ethanol doesn't pack as much punch, ultimately it does provide another source for fuel and that along with ever increasingly cheaper methods to grow corn with genetic engineering, and refining processes...makes this a better and better choice all the time. Once we start building equipment to use it improve refining techniques, and cut down travel expenses to get it shipped around by placing plants closer to the users...this fuel is looking better and better all the time.

 

[cat_man_mike]

I agree with yeffy, it is all about percentages. I don't know how many gallons of gas you get with one barrel of oil or how many gallons of ethanol you get with one bushel of corn but you have to look at it in percentages. If corn is up 200% and oil is up 100% I would say that the oil is less volitale. I am not against ethanol, I run it in my vehicles, my snowmobile, and my boats at 10%. I have not had problems with it and it is good for the farmers. I do believe that you get more energy out of it than you put into it but it is still more expensive than oil, especially domestic oil. With the price of crude going up it should be closer or maybe even cheaper soon but all crop prices go up when more corn is used to make ethanol. The price of corn goes up so more acres of corn are planted. Then there is a shortage of wheat and soybean acres so the price goes up on those also. As for sugar prices a few years ago the world price of sugar ranged from 7.00 to 13.00. It is now over 30.00 per hundredweight. The US sugar program set the price support at 22.90 for beet sugar so we are not paying twice the world price for sugar now. I am not against ethanol and do agree it should be part of the mix but in my opinion the best is still domestic oil, followed by Canadian oil.

Obviously not a farmer. You just cannot keep planting corn in the same field year after year. A farmer does not decide "well, corn is up, we'll plant all corn this year." It does not work that way. Crops must be rotated year by year. I myself am not a farmer, but my father in law is and I did ask him one time when beans where about $12.00 and corn was $4.00 why he did not just plant all beans. The fields need to be rotated so the nutrients can be replenished for the best yields. (A lot more technical jargin, but that is the jist of it)

 

[harvest1121]

Its not feed corn. Its subsidized by th government for something that does not work so why would they stop now?