Personal ride review 2014 Apex vs Doo XS

[momoney2123]

Finally got a chance to ride a 2014 Apex with EPS down the trail and out on the lake this past weekend. I am a doo guy, so take this for what its worth. First impression was the feel of the sled is very different than a XP-XS doo and took a little to get used to. The floor boards and seating reminded me of a 2005 mach z I once owned. Started the sled and liked the quick reving sound of this engine. Headed down the trail and noticed right away the ease of the EPS. It is a nice feature and makes the sled feel lighter than it is. Got a chance to hit all types of trail. Bumps, twistys, and the flat straights. Over the bumps it was not bad, better than I expected, but a long way from the R-motion. The twistys it is good, but I cant get it around the corner like a MXZ-XS/XP. The straights is where the sled is best IMO. Sit back and cruise. The person I was riding with we are similar riders and we knew the particular trail like the back of our hands. We both couldn’t get it around the corner with the MXZ. Most people probably wouldn’t notice this. When I opened her up on the straight, the sled pulled well and knew it would be a good race with my 800 etec. I raced many other 800 etecs this trip and mine is dialed in the best, as some I destroyed. It is clutched and geared as good as I can get it. Have done a lot of testing and tried many different clutching and gearing combos. Other than that the powerplant is bone stock. We found some good hard pack on the lake. Buddy has a clutch kit on the APEX. We came out together both runs and I would nudge out in the mid range and we would lock up on the big end, with a slight creep. Both runs were under 2 sled lengths. First race I went about 1000 feet. Second run I figured I would give the big 4 stroke its due and we went a long way, with same results. The APEX would of waxed a out of the box clutched and geared 800 E. Both of us who road it felt the same way. The EPS is nice, the motor sounds great and runs great, but the chassis has a long ways to go IMO. It seems like a great cruiser. It kind of is what I thought it was, not my cup of tea for tight twisty aggressive trail riding., especially if there are bumps involved. But can see why people like it. The EPS is its strength. The r-motion and chassis of the doo are its strength. I personally like the resistance that the steering gives as I have a feel of what’s going on, but see where the EPS really turns people on, especially older riders. Only way to know which one is right for you is to ride them and see which one fits you best. For me its hands down the MXZ-X XS.

 

[xcsp]

Thanks for the review.

I haven't ridden a newer Yamaha with EPS, but owned an '06 Apex, and several Polaris sleds over the years, the last couple being in the IQ chassis.

Now after putting 1500 miles on my Rev-XS 900 ACE, I have to say that this sled is so easy to ride, just goes where you want it, riding position fits me better than the others.

 

[Attak man]

That's cool...you have to ride what you like....now can you picture a 60lbs lighter apex in a new chassis with power steering and over 170 HP?? ...I think that is what every Yamaha fan is hoping for... You rode the standard apex?? I prefer the XTX....I think it's better for more aggressive riding (with the torsion spring skid, and longer track length)...and no it's not as smooth as the Rmotion...No current sled is IMO...that's definately ski-doo's selling point......with yamaha...it's the motors, and the quality of the product.

 

[momoney2123]

That's cool...you have to ride what you like....now can you picture a 60lbs lighter apex in a new chassis with power steering and over 170 HP?? ...I think that is what every Yamaha fan is hoping for... You rode the standard apex?? I prefer the XTX....I think it's better for more aggressive riding (with the torsion spring skid, and longer track length)...and no it's not as smooth as the Rmotion...No current sled is IMO...that's definately ski-doo's selling point......with yamaha...it's the motors, and the quality of the product.

It was the short track all black model, not even sure what the XTX means? Sled was basically brand new with 580 miles only. I would agree if they can knock some weight off and bring a new chassis that sled would really have something. I really liked the engine. IMO more the chassis than the weight, as some have said it doesnt feel very heavy with the EPS.

 

[Banks93]

You mean put the apex motor in a r-motion chasis. Yes, that sled would kick butt and not have to worry about the engine.

Viper with the Apex motor and EPS on it would also be a good sled.

 

[momoney2123]

You mean put the apex motor in a r-motion chasis. Yes, that sled would kick butt and not have to worry about the engine.

Viper with the Apex motor and EPS on it would also be a good sled.

Yeah that would a be a sweet sled.

Doo needs to come with a quick reving, mean high HP 4 stroke like the apex in the R-motion equipped chassis. Would sell like hot cakes IMO. I think I would even convert to 4s if that came out.

 

[boomding]

Mo: XTX has a 144" track with the last (I think) 7" tipped up 10-ish degrees. 137" contacts groomed trail and the additional 7 for deeper snow.

 

[snobuilder]

racing yourself on 2 sleds tells alot for someone coming off a doo onto a Yamaha....see you at 20,000 miles...eerrrr NOT.....LOL

 

[fusion]

Predictable review, with results not surprising based on riding my Apex LTX GT vs. my current Rush. Apex great cruiser on flat groomed trails. Power plant 2nd to none.
But when it comes to chassis and handling, Apex and Vector not even in the same league, let alone ballpark, as Rush. Rush you dial in to perfection with one or two clicks of the Walker Evans.
Totally noticeable changes vs. electronic ohlins very subtle. Yam has a long way to go with weight and handling. If they ever come up with something to shave 75-100 lbs and a good handling chassis, they'd double market share. But this is a pipe dream - do not hold your breath.

 

[whitedust]

momoney good comparo but too bad you didn't get to ride Apex XTX 144 with tipped ripsaw stock, I have ice ripper track. ....with CK rear suspension more of a banger suspension hooks up so much better than 128 & of course has eps. You probably would have felt same way about corners Yam vs doo but XTX can do the deep stuff moderately well too & begs to be banged. I'm just getting my Apex XTX tweaked been so darn cold tuff to get at clicker & turn out transfer but I made a lot of progress today with some good sized bumps on FRs & pipleine 8/15 to & from LAnse.

 

[lenny]

Finally got a chance to ride a 2014 Apex with EPS down the trail and out on the lake this past weekend. I am a doo guy, so take this for what its worth. First impression was the feel of the sled is very different than a XP-XS doo and took a little to get used to. The floor boards and seating reminded me of a 2005 mach z I once owned. Started the sled and liked the quick reving sound of this engine. Headed down the trail and noticed right away the ease of the EPS. It is a nice feature and makes the sled feel lighter than it is. Got a chance to hit all types of trail. Bumps, twistys, and the flat straights. Over the bumps it was not bad, better than I expected, but a long way from the R-motion. The twistys it is good, but I cant get it around the corner like a MXZ-XS/XP. The straights is where the sled is best IMO. Sit back and cruise. The person I was riding with we are similar riders and we knew the particular trail like the back of our hands. We both couldn’t get it around the corner with the MXZ. Most people probably wouldn’t notice this. When I opened her up on the straight, the sled pulled well and knew it would be a good race with my 800 etec. I raced many other 800 etecs this trip and mine is dialed in the best, as some I destroyed. It is clutched and geared as good as I can get it. Have done a lot of testing and tried many different clutching and gearing combos. Other than that the powerplant is bone stock. We found some good hard pack on the lake. Buddy has a clutch kit on the APEX. We came out together both runs and I would nudge out in the mid range and we would lock up on the big end, with a slight creep. Both runs were under 2 sled lengths. First race I went about 1000 feet. Second run I figured I would give the big 4 stroke its due and we went a long way, with same results. The APEX would of waxed a out of the box clutched and geared 800 E. Both of us who road it felt the same way. The EPS is nice, the motor sounds great and runs great, but the chassis has a long ways to go IMO. It seems like a great cruiser. It kind of is what I thought it was, not my cup of tea for tight twisty aggressive trail riding., especially if there are bumps involved. But can see why people like it. The EPS is its strength. The r-motion and chassis of the doo are its strength. I personally like the resistance that the steering gives as I have a feel of what’s going on, but see where the EPS really turns people on, especially older riders. Only way to know which one is right for you is to ride them and see which one fits you best. For me its hands down the MXZ-X XS.

good review, thanks!

 

[teamblue]

20 minutes of tuning on that Apex and I could change your mind real quick. IMO nothing is better! You need to get the numbers out of your head!

Finally got a chance to ride a 2014 Apex with EPS down the trail and out on the lake this past weekend. I am a doo guy, so take this for what its worth. First impression was the feel of the sled is very different than a XP-XS doo and took a little to get used to. The floor boards and seating reminded me of a 2005 mach z I once owned. Started the sled and liked the quick reving sound of this engine. Headed down the trail and noticed right away the ease of the EPS. It is a nice feature and makes the sled feel lighter than it is. Got a chance to hit all types of trail. Bumps, twistys, and the flat straights. Over the bumps it was not bad, better than I expected, but a long way from the R-motion. The twistys it is good, but I cant get it around the corner like a MXZ-XS/XP. The straights is where the sled is best IMO. Sit back and cruise. The person I was riding with we are similar riders and we knew the particular trail like the back of our hands. We both couldn’t get it around the corner with the MXZ. Most people probably wouldn’t notice this. When I opened her up on the straight, the sled pulled well and knew it would be a good race with my 800 etec. I raced many other 800 etecs this trip and mine is dialed in the best, as some I destroyed. It is clutched and geared as good as I can get it. Have done a lot of testing and tried many different clutching and gearing combos. Other than that the powerplant is bone stock. We found some good hard pack on the lake. Buddy has a clutch kit on the APEX. We came out together both runs and I would nudge out in the mid range and we would lock up on the big end, with a slight creep. Both runs were under 2 sled lengths. First race I went about 1000 feet. Second run I figured I would give the big 4 stroke its due and we went a long way, with same results. The APEX would of waxed a out of the box clutched and geared 800 E. Both of us who road it felt the same way. The EPS is nice, the motor sounds great and runs great, but the chassis has a long ways to go IMO. It seems like a great cruiser. It kind of is what I thought it was, not my cup of tea for tight twisty aggressive trail riding., especially if there are bumps involved. But can see why people like it. The EPS is its strength. The r-motion and chassis of the doo are its strength. I personally like the resistance that the steering gives as I have a feel of what’s going on, but see where the EPS really turns people on, especially older riders. Only way to know which one is right for you is to ride them and see which one fits you best. For me its hands down the MXZ-X XS.

 

[momoney2123]

20 minutes of tuning on that Apex and I could change your mind real quick. IMO nothing is better! You need to get the numbers out of your head!

The sled seemed tuned pretty good, as the guy who owned it, isnt a slouch. What numbers are you talking about?

 

[Banks93]

Yamapologists. No, telling them anything other than Yamaha is the best. I use to be one until I rode the r-motion.

Engine reliability is great but nothing handles rough trail and aggressive riding like a light weight sled. You don't need EPS on a 2-stroke with less weight.

 

[lenny]

Yamapologists. No, telling them anything other than Yamaha is the best. I use to be one until I rode the r-motion.

Engine reliability is great but nothing handles rough trail and aggressive riding like a light weight sled. You don't need EPS on a 2-stroke with less weight.

what motor are you running?

 

[timo]

don't say 800 banks...lenny will chew ya a new one....

what motor are you running?

 

[lenny]

no I wont but I would like to see how people from this site are doing with miles on the 800e. I tell you the truth, I don't bring this topic up in order to bash any sled maker because if that were the case I would have to slap myself silly for buying a poo800,,right? lol I bring it up to help people understand what they are getting into. I know a mechanic that works at a doo dealership and he says stay away from the 800e as they are a serious problem so that is why I say what I say. I get no pleasure out of someone blowing up or spending a second not riding because there machine failed them.

All these manufacturers are in a pickle trying to comply with emissions. Does anyone really think that poo and doo would have naturally gravitated to the engine design they now produce without the pressure from the EPA? Most manufactures at one time made durable 2s motors but are now forced to do things that ought not be done but what is there choice? They could be like Yamaha and go all 4s and loose a huge market share and get what you get which is a slow steady manageable return o your R&D or you can shoot for the stars and compete in world class mtn sleds and silky smooth aggressive trails sleds like the other 3. Yamaha will always have their target market because they are widely diversified invested in a much larger world market of golf carts, go cart motors, generators, drums, pianos, guitars, motorcycles, snow blowers,,,,and on and on we go. Do you understand why it was easy for them to go 4s for the last 12 years and get a smaller piece but a consistent piece of the pie. I understand the other 3 make some other stuff but not even close to the scale of Yamaha. The only reason Yamaha can do it is because they are a huge corp and have interest in many different areas unlike poo, doo and cat.

 

[timo]

i hear ya lenny, i know you're not biased towards any sled at all. just having a little fun on this shi**y rainy day.

 

[momoney2123]

no I wont but I would like to see how people from this site are doing with miles on the 800e. I tell you the truth, I don't bring this topic up in order to bash any sled maker because if that were the case I would have to slap myself silly for buying a poo800,,right? lol I bring it up to help people understand what they are getting into. I know a mechanic that works at a doo dealership and he says stay away from the 800e as they are a serious problem so that is why I say what I say. I get no pleasure out of someone blowing up or spending a second not riding because there machine failed them.

All these manufacturers are in a pickle trying to comply with emissions. Does anyone really think that poo and doo would have naturally gravitated to the engine design they now produce without the pressure from the EPA? Most manufactures at one time made durable 2s motors but are now forced to do things that ought not be done but what is there choice? They could be like Yamaha and go all 4s and loose a huge market share and get what you get which is a slow steady manageable return o your R&D or you can shoot for the stars and compete in world class mtn sleds and silky smooth aggressive trails sleds like the other 3. Yamaha will always have their target market because they are widly invested in a much larger world market of golf carts, go cart motors, generators, drums, pianos, guitars, motorcycles, snowblowers,,,,and on and on we go. Do you understand why it was easy for them to go 4s for the last 12 years and get a smaller piece but a consistent piece of the pie. I understand the other 3 make some other stuff but not even close to the scale of Yamaha. The only reason Yamaha can do it is because they are a huge corp and have interest in many different areas unlike poo, doo and cat.

One of the best and knowledgable ski-doo mechanics I've ever meant rides a ski-doo 800E renegade, he knows it isnt perfect, but you make it sound like your odds of making it home are like zero. Like that one commercial says, some people want more out of life.

 

[whitedust]

Let's not turn a good & honest sled comparo into a negative brand or focus on 1 engine. Injected 2s are what they are 4s are 4s some better than others & weigh more by design but all good sleds regardless of engine type.