Polaris moving some work to Mexico....

snobuilder

Well-known member
You think Menards did that because they care? 90% of what they sell is price point crap. They are the Kmart of Hardware using the Walmart strategy to make sales. It was marketing hype to give you the feel good of being in their store.

wholly crud!,...give 'em a break already,....its a start,....some ppl will be negative about everything,....who else did what Menards did to promote "Made in America" items?

I'll check back later for your positive answer if you can come up with one.....LOL
 
Last edited:

arctic

New member
Manufacturing won't come back in this country unless you want to live the same lifestyle as workers in less developed countries do. The products American companies develop, market, and sell are all engineered, designed, and tested here. That is where the value is at. The manufacturing sector will always be shopped around the world to the lowest bidder, whether you like it or not. America's biggest exports now are corn, software, and airplanes. Until the income disparity is narrowed expect to continue seeing this trend.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Manufacturing won't come back in this country unless you want to live the same lifestyle as workers in less developed countries do. The products American companies develop, market, and sell are all engineered, designed, and tested here. That is where the value is at. The manufacturing sector will always be shopped around the world to the lowest bidder, whether you like it or not. America's biggest exports now are corn, software, and airplanes. Until the income disparity is narrowed expect to continue seeing this trend.

Exactly.....well said ......manu. is already gone...(song by Kellie Clarkson comes to mind) lol..... corporations already have out of country manu ops with many year ROI & NOT coming back. Engineering AR&D happens here will stay here. Just a biz progression change to max profits. Consumer not going to pay for high manu.costs for made in USA & corps must stay competitive. Design it here manu.in less developed country keep costs low.
 

mrfirecat

New member
To think that we will only be a technical country is a joke. There is only a small percentage of the population that has the ability to be an engineer or work in a techincal field. It also doesn't take very many engineers to develop products that provide many jobs in the manufacturing sector. There is going to be a lot of unemployed Americans if this trend continues. The downward spiral has already started and it's not too late to turn things around.
 

dcsnomo

Moderator
Manufacturing won't come back in this country unless you want to live the same lifestyle as workers in less developed countries do. The products American companies develop, market, and sell are all engineered, designed, and tested here. That is where the value is at. The manufacturing sector will always be shopped around the world to the lowest bidder, whether you like it or not. America's biggest exports now are corn, software, and airplanes. Until the income disparity is narrowed expect to continue seeing this trend.

True, as long as you look at it as "old line, rust belt" manufacturing. You are totally correct in the manufacturing sector will always be shopped around the world to the lowest bidder.

There was a time, however, when these products were "new inventions", and America pioneered many of them, and built them here. Now they are commodities that can be built anywhere.

While "Buy American" sounds good, and makes us feel good, we will never return to the manufacturing of old line products in this country. What we are lacking is innovation. We need to develop new industries that produce unique products that solve problems and address consumer needs, just like the automobile was a new product 100 years ago.

Many think that our dependence on foreign oil, causing worldwide political unrest and a massive transfer of our wealth, will become so unsustainable that it will force American innovation to solve the problem, and create new proprietary industries to manufacture the products to solve the problem.
 

polarisrider1

New member
To think that we will only be a technical country is a joke. There is only a small percentage of the population that has the ability to be an engineer or work in a techincal field. It also doesn't take very many engineers to develop products that provide many jobs in the manufacturing sector. There is going to be a lot of unemployed Americans if this trend continues. The downward spiral has already started and it's not too late to turn things around.

Agreed. India is giving us a run for the money in technical and service. "Hello my name is Peggy".
 

anonomoose

New member
True, as long as you look at it as "old line, rust belt" manufacturing. You are totally correct in the manufacturing sector will always be shopped around the world to the lowest bidder.

There was a time, however, when these products were "new inventions", and America pioneered many of them, and built them here. Now they are commodities that can be built anywhere.

While "Buy American" sounds good, and makes us feel good, we will never return to the manufacturing of old line products in this country. What we are lacking is innovation. We need to develop new industries that produce unique products that solve problems and address consumer needs, just like the automobile was a new product 100 years ago.

Many think that our dependence on foreign oil, causing worldwide political unrest and a massive transfer of our wealth, will become so unsustainable that it will force American innovation to solve the problem, and create new proprietary industries to manufacture the products to solve the problem.


India is already doing the designing, and engineering....it won't be long and the chinese will be doing it too...

Besides if you don't have the technical training and the good old fashioned seat in the saddle training....need or no need, it won't be developed or designed here....because nobody will be able to figure it out...

As long as everyone is CONTENT with this drain going on...shrugs their shoulders and says..."hey it is too late...." then we will continue to continue.

Once enough people start using that noodle on their shoulders and understands that when you buy something 10% cheaper but NOT made here...made elsewhere....you are cutting YOUR OWN Throat...or at least that of you kids and grand kids....then we will have turned the corner.

Just because we feed the world doesn't mean we can all go back to farming....it isn't going to happen. Slowly but steadily we are watching the steady progression of good paying jobs...AND the ability to design and build those widgets...off shore. Eventually there will be those who made it and those who don't stand a prayer of a chance...and all because we walked into wally world and said...gee whizz.....I can buy that microwave for $40. While that seems like a prudent thing to do....in the long run, it isn't and it is killing us...and even more so for your kids and grand kids...and who will NOT have options when they come of age.

I believe enough people are waking up to this process that a completely new industry will come along that has a first LINE of advertising...that says...."stainless steel bowls...MADE IN THE USA...BY YOUR NEIGHBORS AND FRIENDS....." Marketing MADE IN THE USA, will become THE key words that will do two things...make those folks who CAN"T say that think twice before moving off shore to set up shop, AND will become the buzz word for folks who can use their noodle for more than just holding on to a hat.

There are lots of examples of companies that are doing well and not doing by taking the easy route and moving away from home. We need to patronize them, and put them into consideration at every single purchase.

The rest of this action will bring about the right changes for the right reasons.

Remember that Henry Ford designed the motor car...but what put him on the map was not sending the jobs off shore...but to pay his labor force $5 a day....

This was good money in the day, and it forced others to follow....once the car and truck was here to stay...the pay stayed too...and the REAL trickle down process occurred from that....NOT from making it cheaper elsewhere and shipping it back home.... Old Henry knew that the first thing his employees did was go out and buy a new car or truck with the wages he paid them.
 

cdsprague

New member
Now this is where this topic was supposed to go! Well done to those that helped. It is easy to shrug your shoulders and doo nothing. But I believe we have to keep this stuff in peoples minds and eventually someone will come up with a fix!! Now to go work on a fix....
 

frnash

Active member
Agreed. India is giving us a run for the money in technical and service. "Hello my name is Peggy".
Far too many of us still think of India and China as 'third world'.

I can tell you that I have worked here in the USA with several brilliant software engineers from India, and at least one brilliant twenty-something software engineer from mainland China. And that was in the late 1990s through the early 2000s.

Have you noticed how our schools are doing these days? Whose kids win the National Spelling Bee,and National Geography Bee?

It's enough to send chills up yer spine; what's fields are left for US to excel at that they won't be able to whup our azz in?
 

arctic

New member
frnash, just because there are brilliant software developers scattered across the globe does not mean that some of them do live in third world countries -- compared to the United States. I believe one of the largest problems facing the economies today is that the internet has essentially leveled the playing field and opened up many new possibilities in a very short time. It is the wages and currency valuations that have not caught up.

Companies around the world are taking advantage of this, resulting in shifts of manufacturing and white collar jobs that are geographically feasible to do so. Lawyers, doctors, plumbers, etc. all stay put. Most jobs that require a computer can be done pretty much from anywhere. I call it wage arbitrage but maybe there's another technical term for it.
 

Marty P

New member
Ratios of CEO pay to average worker pay:

Japan 11 to 1
Germany 12 to 1
France 15 to 1
Canada 20 to 1
United States 475 to 1

Do we really need to say much...lets buy American...that will solve the problem...lol
 

whitedust

Well-known member
frnash, just because there are brilliant software developers scattered across the globe does not mean that some of them do live in third world countries -- compared to the United States. I believe one of the largest problems facing the economies today is that the internet has essentially leveled the playing field and opened up many new possibilities in a very short time. It is the wages and currency valuations that have not caught up.

Companies around the world are taking advantage of this, resulting in shifts of manufacturing and white collar jobs that are geographically feasible to do so. Lawyers, doctors, plumbers, etc. all stay put. Most jobs that require a computer can be done pretty much from anywhere. I call it wage arbitrage but maybe there's another technical term for it.

Yep..... just ask Peggy:)
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Only Broken In Your Mind.

Now this is where this topic was supposed to go! Well done to those that helped. It is easy to shrug your shoulders and doo nothing. But I believe we have to keep this stuff in peoples minds and eventually someone will come up with a fix!! Now to go work on a fix....

Poo sends some jobs to Mexico & saves other jobs in MN. Scott Wine can't & won't cast a blind eye to lower wages in Mexico to stay competitive overall. Fix what?... it is not broken only smart thing for Poo to do. Staying in USA only would be dumb & sink the entire ship then what? Lose a few jobs gain others in MN max corp profits seems smart to me & good plan for future of Poo. No pain no gain swing with it.
 

xcr440

Well-known member
Ratios of CEO pay to average worker pay:

Japan 11 to 1
Germany 12 to 1
France 15 to 1
Canada 20 to 1
United States 475 to 1

Do we really need to say much...lets buy American...that will solve the problem...lol

THIS is the #1 issue with the corporate world in this country. Hands down.

I see it in the company I work for, a NON-PROFIT Dental organization. The top 12 "leaders" or vice-presidents all gave themselves a 1.1 - 1.9 MILLION dollar bonus last year, yet they couldn't give the 50 people answering phones a dime raise citing economic down turns.

Tell me what's wrong with this picture.
 

anonomoose

New member
THIS is the #1 issue with the corporate world in this country. Hands down.

I see it in the company I work for, a NON-PROFIT Dental organization. The top 12 "leaders" or vice-presidents all gave themselves a 1.1 - 1.9 MILLION dollar bonus last year, yet they couldn't give the 50 people answering phones a dime raise citing economic down turns.

Tell me what's wrong with this picture.
It is called Corporate Greed.

If you learn that you can net about the same amount of money by laying off 12 people, not paying those 12 people benefits, and heaping the work on the 30 remaining workers, all the while telling those remaining workers that they are "lucky to have a job...work harder" and which logically they do...you then have very little incentive to re-hire those workers that have been laid off.

If you show the board of directors that you can really make the stock holders tons of cash by moving part of your operations over seas, in return the board of directors are giddy happy to pay the huge bonus checks out to the higher ups of the Corporation....don't break up the team attitude.

For some reason the board of directors have been Conned into thinking that this is a very unique situation and that if they don't pay the CEO the big bucks...he/she will move on and the COMPANY WILL THEN GO DOWN THE TUBES OR THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO HIRE A REPLACEMENT that will be able to do the same thing for 10% of the wages.

It amazes me...how stupid these boards have become. Maybe I am missing something, but you take any single big company remove the big cheese, and promote from within another director from within...at 1/2 the cost and get twice the production....but the boards are afraid of doing this. Frankly it has become more to the boards liking rather than promote from within...to a guy who knows the company weaknesses, to go out and hire away from some other company a new CEO who knows nothing whatsoever of the company he is going to work for....and doesn't have a clue of the current weaknesses of his new company.

Complete lunacy...if you ask me.
 

whitedust

Well-known member
Greed is good! Heck it is the "American Way" the engine that paid for Ma & Pa's house your college education, the new car & the place by the lake. Ma & Pa didn't complain when jobs went off shore they they just hunkered down kept on keeping on moving forward. Nothing good comes easy unless you are blessed with the golden spoon or god given talent. What's wrong with working hard for a buck? You don't like your current job you are free to leave in fact CEOs happy to see you go. CEOs want you to want your job no fat lazy workers for them....those days are long gone. You want to get ahead think of a way to reduce labor costs or any costs to produce increased productivity. Any fool can do more with more...... it is the smart greedy guy who does more with less that fuels the engine that drives real econ growth.
 

xcr440

Well-known member
Loyalty to workers in this country is long gone. Loyalty from the top has unfortunately disappeared years ago.

My dad worked at the same place for 41 years, and is now retired, comfortably. He was a self described grease monkey, a welder by trade. He lived within his means, suffered through the tough times of the late 70's, early 80's, and still came out very well. Does he have millions of dollars in the bank to take care of his lazy children for the rest of their lives, their childrens lives, and their childrens lives? No. Get out there and earn your own way, do something and feel good about it. And while your at it, don't step on your neighbor's well being.

I went through this "outsourcing" years ago myself. I worked for a company in the Twin Cities who took their IT department, and moved it to Manilla, in the Phillipines for those who don't know. How'd that work out? 3 years later they were calling us back. You think we went? Not a chance.

My point was take the insulting "economic downturn" greedy excuse to not reward those working for you and shove it where the sun don't shine when you take MILLION dollar bonus' for your employees hard work in those "economic downturn" times.

With that being said, is there anything I can do about that $1M bonus they take? Nope. That's the sad hard truth. All I can do is call them out, and quite frankly, they don't give a rats Azz.
 
Top