So what happens when I fill 4 - 5 gallon jugs for home use? I get penalized for mileage?
Proposed Vehicle Miles Traveled Tax
- Thread starter heckler56
- Start date
So what happens when I fill 4 - 5 gallon jugs for home use? I get penalized for mileage?
sweeperguy
Active member
Odometer? Logged/verified upon purchase/sale-registration of vehicles.
If you fudged the numbers over the years, they get you then?
I'm sure they'll come up with something to screw us.
IMO tax for road purposes should be collected at the pump, having said that they need to come up with a way to somehow tax the EV'S, I do not believe not having to pay any kind of road tax just because fossil fuels are not pushing you down the road should null and void any road tax, I don't know the answer to it but it shouldn't be so instead of figuring out how to stick it to the rest of us, they should figure out how to collect from them first, and I cannot believe that it has taken this long with EV'S becoming more and more popular and vehicles becoming more and more fuel efficient. I hate to say this but whether you drive a 1 ton gas guzzler or a EV you are using the road and there has to be a way to collect tax and I think it starts with the EV's. Someone stated about how cars have become more and more fuel efficient this less gas being sold. Look at homes we have made them tighter and tighter and more energy efficient, unless you have solar power has the cost of energy ever dropped comparatively? yes your bill may have dropped but what has happened with the cost of energy over time? hasn't gotten cheaper. No matter what you navigate the roads with you should have to pay, without them where are you going to go?
Just had this talk with an 80 year old customer of mine. His words not mine "ya but death doesnt keep getting worse as time goes on"
Not necessarily true.... look what it costs when you die....just sayin
What about a base gas price with road tax a constant. I like everyone else liked paying $1.00/gal of gas when it dropped that far, heck alot of us would have been happy with $2.00/gal. not to be debbie downer here but maybe instead of allowing gas to drop that far have a set ammount with a set tax some how that it cant drop below, how much of that shortfall could we have helped if lets say we let it down to $1.50/gal with .50 going to road tax, intsead of it being $1.00/gal would anyone had complained paying $1.50..$1.75...$1.90/gal when in the not so distant past we were paying $3.00.. $4.00...$5.00/ gal? I doubt it, but we still have to figure out how to get it from the EV's
Very well stated!
bearrassler
Active member
They should keep the gas tax for standard vehicles and figure out a mileage tax for the EV'S and maybe a lesser milage tax for the hybrids
goofy600
Well-known member
So basically our government is pushing EV’s because of global warming (emissions) so to save roads change to mileage tax instead of consumption (amount of fuel used). In theory makes sense until you figure out that cars in stop and go traffic creates more harmful emissions than car traveling at highway speeds for miles yet the high mileage traveler will get taxed more.
Pretty much, and the high mileage people don't live in big chities, therefore do not make as much, but will be taxed more. Again, middle class getting screwed.
goofy600
Well-known member
Kinda my thoughts also.
favoritos
Well-known member
I kinda understand the argument with high mile drivers getting a bigger burden. It is hard for me to relate that to a class structure. I live in rural and metro areas and own land in both. My work is spread between the two areas. I actually prefer doing business in the rural areas based on costs alone. Driving is a small part of the expense outlay.
Yes, there are more miles driven between locations in rural areas. It has always been that way. Plain old gas/fuel taxes were a method to help cover road repair and maintenance expenses. It isn't a bad deal in rural areas. We get a lot of road for the dollars I spend in user tax. I also don't have to share the rural roads with so many people. I have been pretty comfortable with the process. Less traffic also means less usage tax revenue. Road repairs and updates get spread out if they rely only on dollars collected. It is brutal finding money when township roads need work.
The formulas to pay for road repairs and infrastructure are already complicated. Many do not really break down to actual vehicle miles on a road. We recognize the need for repairs and pull money out of a general road budget. We don't look at who paid into the budget and allocate funds to those roads specifically. Rural roads would suffer if we broke down costs in that manner and new roads would never be built. I certainly don't want to see that happen.
I'm not a fan of the idea to use a VMT tax that outlays the true cost of miles driven. It would be even more expensive to drive down that nice highway in rural areas.
What system would work to keep roads in shape for all areas? It isn't a simple answer. VMT style funding done with GPS tracking seems to be a likely contender. I'm a little concerned how that type of system would be utilized as a data tool for a miriad of different agendas. I think we can come up with better options.
Yes, there are more miles driven between locations in rural areas. It has always been that way. Plain old gas/fuel taxes were a method to help cover road repair and maintenance expenses. It isn't a bad deal in rural areas. We get a lot of road for the dollars I spend in user tax. I also don't have to share the rural roads with so many people. I have been pretty comfortable with the process. Less traffic also means less usage tax revenue. Road repairs and updates get spread out if they rely only on dollars collected. It is brutal finding money when township roads need work.
The formulas to pay for road repairs and infrastructure are already complicated. Many do not really break down to actual vehicle miles on a road. We recognize the need for repairs and pull money out of a general road budget. We don't look at who paid into the budget and allocate funds to those roads specifically. Rural roads would suffer if we broke down costs in that manner and new roads would never be built. I certainly don't want to see that happen.
I'm not a fan of the idea to use a VMT tax that outlays the true cost of miles driven. It would be even more expensive to drive down that nice highway in rural areas.
What system would work to keep roads in shape for all areas? It isn't a simple answer. VMT style funding done with GPS tracking seems to be a likely contender. I'm a little concerned how that type of system would be utilized as a data tool for a miriad of different agendas. I think we can come up with better options.
I am a high mileage driver, I live 70 miles, one way, from where I work. I live in a county that has ONE stop light, I love living there, and will not move closer to work. That being said, I feel if there needs to be an increase, it should be a tax on gasoline/diesel only. I use more gas than someone who only drives 10 miles to work, therefore I do pay more in taxes than they do. Thatbis the only fair way to do it.. I cannot wrap my head around a mileage tax.
It's not an emissions tax, it's a mileage tax. Whether gas or electric a vehicle driving more miles uses more road miles and should pay more. Works great as a gas tax until electrics drive for free.
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High mileage people are getting taxed more now because of gas used. Tax on mileage is not a new idea, it is the current system. More miles=more gas=more tax. Works fine until electrics drive for free. More miles =no gas=no tax paid.
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But what if your neighbor owns a Tesla and drives the same 70 miles as you, right behind you every day. He is not contributing to the road he is using. No fuel, no tax, no contribution.
I think this discussion is missing the point as it has a very narrow focus. At the end of 2018 there were 1 million electric vehicles on US roads. By the end of 2030 it is projected to be 18.7 million or 7%, by 2040 31% of cars on US roads will be electric.
They can't all drive for free. The gas tax is an old solution. We need a new solution. I'm not saying a mileage tax is good or bad, but seeing all these Teslas out here in CA driving on free roads kinda pisses me off.
And for the record, I believe my next car will be electric as it suits my lifestyle. I'm not against EVs, I'm against freeloading!
They can't all drive for free. The gas tax is an old solution. We need a new solution. I'm not saying a mileage tax is good or bad, but seeing all these Teslas out here in CA driving on free roads kinda pisses me off.
And for the record, I believe my next car will be electric as it suits my lifestyle. I'm not against EVs, I'm against freeloading!
indy_500
Well-known member
I think the point most of us are getting at, is the proposed idea will without a doubt, cost those who put more miles on, more money in the end. There are plenty of inner city people who sit in traffic burning petrol all day long just to put on 5 miles, along with plenty of fuel inefficient vehicles (by choice) who both contribute their fair share to the road tax by purchasing gasoline with the current system. While I do agree it is time for a new system with the emergence of electric vehicles, I don’t know what a fair solution would be... Maybe in addition to the current system, add a flat rate yearly road tax for those with electric vehicles? Not sure... What I do find ironic is the current administration is obsessed with trying to get fuel inefficient vehicles off the road, going from taxing our fuel to taxing our mileage will do exactly the opposite of that.
Aren't EV vehicles being charged more for registration than a standard car?
About half the states do. Fed owns interstate system, not states.
heckler56
Active member
Not in Michigan.
heckler56
Active member
So I read a number of articles from the UK today on carbon footprints, EV vs petrol. Interesting that EV in the manufacturing are considered 40ish times higher carbon footprint during manufacturing. The “theory “ is if you charge them with solar or wind you will eventually switch the footprint. But because coal, natural gas and nuclear are our sources for electricity it could be argued they are not a better choice. They go on to say “hybrid” cars are the worst since they rely on petrol and have minimal battery capacity.
I want to also mention in those articles they brought up the mining of lithium for batteries and the devastating effects on the environment (something I always suspected).
I think EVs actually will have a short life in the eyes of environmentalists. Once governments force their solution the people and the bashing will expose the downfall of the build. Think how good asbestos was in the early 1900’s. I personally see hydrogen vehicles to be the more lasting solution. With water coming out of the tailpipe. We just need to develop the “gas” stations and make it so you don’t end up in a Hindenburg.
Truth be told, I bought a EV a couple months ago to replace a car. Tax credit $7500, discounts all added up to $17k. Then my utility gave the cost of my home charger. I did this under a short term lease to see how it works out. Around town is no big deal. However I feel this brick will require multiple charges to go to Detroit or Grand Rapids. I knew this would never replace my tow vehicle for sledding. Like the people I stay with are going to install a charging station, ya right.
I want to also mention in those articles they brought up the mining of lithium for batteries and the devastating effects on the environment (something I always suspected).
I think EVs actually will have a short life in the eyes of environmentalists. Once governments force their solution the people and the bashing will expose the downfall of the build. Think how good asbestos was in the early 1900’s. I personally see hydrogen vehicles to be the more lasting solution. With water coming out of the tailpipe. We just need to develop the “gas” stations and make it so you don’t end up in a Hindenburg.
Truth be told, I bought a EV a couple months ago to replace a car. Tax credit $7500, discounts all added up to $17k. Then my utility gave the cost of my home charger. I did this under a short term lease to see how it works out. Around town is no big deal. However I feel this brick will require multiple charges to go to Detroit or Grand Rapids. I knew this would never replace my tow vehicle for sledding. Like the people I stay with are going to install a charging station, ya right.