Snowmobilers drinking while sledding - what do you do

[xsledder]

I on the other hand have lived in Chicago my entire life and can think of several times where a firearm would of came in handy. And yes I never leave the house without one.

There several locations in Chicago where I would want a firearm too, but not out of fear of four-legged animals. If you were on a snowmobile trail in Chicago you won't need a firearm for cougars, bisons, or wolfs, would you? Besides, how many miles of snowmobile trails are in Chicago proper (ahh, none).

(And the cougar that wondered into the city was a fluke occurance. It was probably afraid of the gang bangers and wanted a gun too.)

 

[xsledder]

I don't have anything to fear while snowmobiling in the UP period except my sled breaking down leaving me in the middle of nowhere.

The last thing I'm think about when my sled breaks down in the middle of nowhere is lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

 

[anonomoose]

There several locations in Chicago where I would want a firearm too,...And the cougar that wondered into the city was a fluke occurance. It was probably afraid of the gang bangers and wanted a gun too.)

It died in a hail of bullets....killed by the police, who saved the day!

 

[xsledder]

It died in a hail of bullets....killed by the police, who saved the day!

They couldn't beat a confession out of the cougar so they shot it.

 

[jonesin]

I don't have anything to fear while snowmobiling in the UP period except my sled breaking down leaving me in the middle of nowhere. Do i feel more comfortable that someone who is paranoid is carrying while drinking at a bar! **** no bring on the detectors and throw their asses in the parking lot!

who said anything about paranoid? I said comfortable.
I don't carry mine, but knowing others do doesn't bother me a bit. I don't remember EVER hearing about someone with a carry permit causing problems but you can find numerous articles about them solving them. No one is going to use their gun to end an arguement, some of you sound paranoid to me.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Legally you can't conceal a pistol in a bar (defined as a place that makes a majority of its income by the sale of alcohol by the glass). But you can legally open carry a pistol into a bar if you have your CPL. I've done it plenty of times when I've stop in to have a burger or something. rsvectordude if that scares you then I guess you need to stay home.

To those that fear citizens legally carrying firearms (whether on a snowmobile or not) you need to do some research and learn the facts about the subject. There are hundreds of thousands of CPL holders nationwide that are out there carrying everyday. CPL holders in Michigan have to undergo training, background checks, expensive licensing process, etc so they aren't the ones you need to worry about. Personally I'm more worried about a meteorite striking me that I am about a CPL holder committing a crime against me. I carry whenever possible not because I am always scared of something, but because I CAN, "to keep and bear arms..." says nothing in the 2nd amendment about "except while on a snowmobile" or "except when some some people on an internet forum think its a bad idea"

"A right not exercised is a right lost"

Edit: I agree with jonesin that some of you seem to think that CPL holders are going to use their firearms to settle an argument, which is completely bogus. Only time its going to get used is when mine or my families life is threatened.

 

[qber]

They should have allowed the couger in chicago one last meal before they shot him!! That was really unfair to the poor cougar!! Naughty!!

 

[xsledder]

Only time its going to get used is when mine or my families life is threatened.

I would like to have an example of this. And an example that involves a threat on a snowmobile trail. Just curious.

 

[russholio]

I'm just wondering what everyone with CPL's do when they enter a bar for food on their sleds! I'm sure they're not tucked away in a windshield bag!

Hence the biggest reason I don't carry while riding.

I have no problem with a firearm caried for hunting or if going back into the woods for protection against 4 legged predatiors if you really feel you need it- no problem. But carrying a firearm to "protect your family from 2 legged predators" while on a trail?? -come on -get serious. If you shoot an unarmed person -that definately will not make your day and if the other guy is armed, figure you will not win in a draw unless you are clint eastwood. The bottom line- If your reason for packing a weapon is for protection against 2 legged threats, let me know because I want at lest 20 miles between us and I realy don't want you on the trails unless you are a sworn officer of the law.

The purpose of a CPL is not so you can play cop or to shoot people who break laws or with whom you might have a disagreement. It is for SELF-DEFENSE. Shooting somebody, armed or unarmed, if they don't pose an immediate threat to life, is not legal and is called "murder". Statistics have proved, time and again, that in "right to carry" states, firearms crimes committed by CPL holders are so low that they're statistically insignificant (and far less than the general population) -- despite all the warnings screamed by the anti-gunners that blood would flow in the streets and it would be like the wild west.

I don't have anything to fear while snowmobiling in the UP period except my sled breaking down leaving me in the middle of nowhere. Do i feel more comfortable that someone who is paranoid is carrying while drinking at a bar! **** no bring on the detectors and throw their asses in the parking lot!

If somebody is carrying while at a bar (drinking or not) they're breaking the law (as taken from the Michigan State Police web page):

[SIZE=+1]Pistol Free Areas
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]

1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
   
2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
   
3. Sports arena or stadium
   
4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
   
5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
   
6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
   
7. A hospital
   
8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
   
9. A Casino
   
   

"Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above.


A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CPL holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The pistol is only subject to seizure if the holder is carrying it concealed. The following penalties may also be imposed:

• First offense: State Civil Infraction, $500 fine, CPL permit suspended 6 months
• Second offense: 90-day misdemeanor, $1000 fine, CPL permit revoked
• Third and subsequent offenses: 4-year felony, $5000 fine, CPL permit revoked

Furthermore, effective March 29, 2001, per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court:

• "Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court's written policy."
  

[/SIZE]

 

[jonesin]

I would like to have an example of this. And an example that involves a threat on a snowmobile trail. Just curious.

ok, how about all those comments about someone getting hit in a corner and all of the threatening comments about beating someones @##. So If a group of 3-4 hotheads has a run in with chevytahoe and his wife and start beating the crap out of him, he's going to walk away with his wife and the fate of the others will depend on whether they backed off in time.
does that work for you?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

ok, how about all those comments about someone getting hit in a corner and all of the threatening comments about beating someones @##. So If a group of 3-4 hotheads has a run in with chevytahoe and his wife and start beating the crap out of him, he's going to walk away with his wife and the fate of the others will depend on whether they backed off in time.
does that work for you?

Thank you. I'm not out there looking for a fight. But if somebody brings trouble to me (like stated a group of hotheads start trouble because there was an accident on the trail) then I'm not just going to sit back and take a beating or worse without putting up a fight.

 

[qber]

When you bring a weapon into a bar, there is the posibility however slight , that you may "have to use it" otherewise what purpose is there to have it on you in the bar. We all know that a few people perceive threats when their is actually little or no threat. I don't remember ever feeling threatened in a bar, but I have seen bar fights start because of over-reaction to what someone with few beers in them saw as a threat.
Weapons and alcolol do mix either in a bar or on the sled if your problem is with 2 legged animals. In a college bar fight in my "nice" town last week, we had a wounding of a college student and the killing of his friend who tried to protect him. The fight started over something so stupid as the wounded friend teasing the arrested guy for drinking beer out of a wine glass. Luckily, the killer was only carrying a knife not a gun as the bar was really crowded.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

If somebody is carrying while at a bar (drinking or not) they're breaking the law (as taken from the Michigan State Police web page):

Wrong. You can open carry in a bar as long as you have a CPL. I suggest you go to Michigan open carrys forum and go through the sticky threads at the top and read up on the MCL's and where it is legal to open carry with a CPL.

 

[xsledder]

ok, how about all those comments about someone getting hit in a corner and all of the threatening comments about beating someones @##. So If a group of 3-4 hotheads has a run in with chevytahoe and his wife and start beating the crap out of him, he's going to walk away with his wife and the fate of the others will depend on whether they backed off in time.
does that work for you?

Fair example. But if there was a head-on collision, I think most everyone is worring about something else then who is a fault. Also, I have been reared a number of times by drivers in my area and not once have I got into a fist fight with anyone over it. (Their not worth it.) Normally, cooler heads pervail.

And, while completely anecdolal, a few of the people who say there going to beat the crap out of someone on this site for (insert your own reason) also appear to be carrying.

If I ran into that situation I would probably put up enough of a fight to let the wife and kids get away on their sleds if cooler heads don't pervail. But my training has taught me how to walk away from a fight. No one on the snowmobile trail is worth the aggrevation.

 

[jonesin]

When you bring a weapon into a bar, there is the posibility however slight , that you may "have to use it" otherewise what purpose is there to have it on you in the bar. We all know that a few people perceive threats when their is actually little or no threat. I don't remember ever feeling threatened in a bar, but I have seen bar fights start because of over-reaction to what someone with few beers in them saw as a threat.
Weapons and alcolol do mix either in a bar or on the sled if your problem is with 2 legged animals. In a college bar fight in my "nice" town last week, we had a wounding of a college student and the killing of his friend who tried to protect him. The fight started over something so stupid as the wounded friend teasing the arrested guy for drinking beer out of a wine glass. Luckily, the killer was only carrying a knife not a gun as the bar was really crowded.

is the victim any less dead becouse it was a knife?
did the killer have a permit for the knife? i don't think its legal to carry a knife longer than 4"
most CPL holders would not intervene in an altercation between strangers but if that guy stabbed you would you want me to stop him before he killed your wife?
would the victim be alive if he were carrying?
we all know that its against the law to carry in a bar, or to drink and carry, or to look at someone wrong while carrying..... but the bad guys don't always obey the rules but the sight of my barrel looking him straight in the eye might have made him think twice about stabbing someone, without a shot being fired

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Normally, cooler heads pervail.

Key word in what you said is "normally" but not 100% of the time. There is a reason we have the term "road rage" because sometimes in a fit of rage certain people are prone do doing bad things. Snowmobiles are no different than on road in your car. People have gotten beaten and killed because they accidentally made somebody angry while driving.....

 

[srt20]

Id rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

 

[xsledder]

Key word in what you said is "normally" but not 100% of the time. There is a reason we have the term "road rage" because sometimes in a fit of rage certain people are prone do doing bad things. Snowmobiles are no different than on road in your car. People have gotten beaten and killed because they accidentally made somebody angry while driving.....

You are the one that should keep the cooler head. You can control your own head. If you normally keep your head cooler, things won't get out of control.

 

[xsledder]

is the victim any less dead becouse it was a knife?
did the killer have a permit for the knife? i don't think its legal to carry a knife longer than 4"
most CPL holders would not intervene in an altercation between strangers but if that guy stabbed you would you want me to stop him before he killed your wife?
would the victim be alive if he were carrying?
we all know that its against the law to carry in a bar, or to drink and carry, or to look at someone wrong while carrying..... but the bad guys don't always obey the rules but the sight of my barrel looking him straight in the eye might have made him think twice about stabbing someone, without a shot being fired

If you are face to face with someone holding a knife and you are pointing your gun at that person, and their with arms reach of you, you are both dead. You will just die slower. It will take less time for them to stab you then you can comprehend what has happened and get your shot off. No one is that fast. (And this bit of information comes from police officers.)

So don't think a knife is any less effective as a gun and you have a bigger stick.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

If you normally keep your head cooler, things won't get out of control.

What happens when the other guy doesn't keep a cool head? When the other guy is just out looking for trouble and I just happen to be the closest one to him?

Years ago I was attacked in the middle of the woods by some guy hopped up on something. He asked me something that neither my coworker or I were able to understand and asked him to repeat himself. About that time he jumped on me and knocked me to the ground and starting hitting me (I was 180 lbs soaking wet he was 250+ lbs) , quick thinking my coworker knocked him with a shovel that was close by in the truck.

How I could have been any more level headed is beyond me as it happened so fast I didn't have time to get scared or angry or anything. My coworker still says to this day if he would have been carrying (this was Pre "shall issue" CPL days in Michigan) that he would have shot the guy in a heart beat.