if i am pointing my gun at someone with a knife, there is no way he's getting me. if i am pointing it at anything, i am ready to shoot/kill whatever it is, my finger will squeeze way faster than he lunges, hense the saying don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
Snowmobilers drinking while sledding - what do you do
- Thread starter Grant Hoar
- Start date
if i am pointing my gun at someone with a knife, there is no way he's getting me. if i am pointing it at anything, i am ready to shoot/kill whatever it is, my finger will squeeze way faster than he lunges, hense the saying don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
I hate to agree with xsledder given some of the arguments he's made, but this time he is correct.........it has to do with reaction time........by the time your mind realizes the other guy has moved you're already stabbed (given his constraint of being within reach)..........that's why cops try to keep a lot of distance between themselves and armed people.
ok, i guess that i am wrong.
i picture my gun straight out at arms length and the soon to be shooting victim at the other end, at least another arms length away, becouse if he was close enough to me to grab my gun, he would already be shot since he was holding a knife and coming my way.
It doesn't matter, it will probably never happen anyway, not worth argueing about, I guess that I will have to practice my quick draw and dryfire, without live ammo of course, shooting from the horse and the dive/roll/shoot that you see on tv is next week!
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mxz500rider
Member
Really guys, how does this thread go from questioning what would you do about drinkin n ridin to carrying guns?
You guys don't use public forums much, do you? Sometimes threads simply take on a life of their own as it were..............
T
Team Elkhorn
Guest
Sounds like everyone is packing out in the woods. I was going to get a chest protector in case of an accident, but it seems my money would be better spent on a bullet proof vest instead.
polarisrider1
New member
I am getting more concerned about guns on the trail rather than a guy coming at me on the wrong side.
Much like other forms of conversation.
But I guess I'm guilty as charged as one of the contributors who helped lead this one astray. So in answer to the original question....as one who believes that in this case there is little to be gained and lots to lose by direct confrontation, I would simply get as accurate and detailed description as I could (including registration numbers if possible) and notify the closest law enforcement agency having jurisdiction with said info. If calling is not an option, perhaps texting to somebody who has a better signal who can relay the info may be an option -- text messaging will often go through with weak signals when regular calls won't. If that's not an option either, well.....I don't know.
xsledder
Active member
I'm sorry you hate agreeing w/me.
Been away for a few days. Had to take care of work and other responsibilities. I'm glad chevyta... is no longer following the thread because the more information he gives about the attack (and it is an unfortunate attack) the more I realize a gun wouldn't have helped him. And while I'm not saying he shouldn't carry and it's not a right, I think he's carrying because of paranoia. And fear can cause anyone to do something bad.Xsledder, with all due respect if you've never had a CPL class, you will never understand the extent to which they preach to us that using a firearm in self-defense is an absolute last resort and not something we really want to do, for all the legal ramifications it will invite. If you can get away, you have to try that first. Even if somebody comes up and jacks your jaw, it's not legal grounds for using deadly force in self-defense. And nobody in their right mind WANTS to shoot somebody. Maybe you've never been attacked as chevy has.....maybe you've never had your home invaded (mine was as a youngster; mom was home and nobody else. She was able to escape). Or maybe you have.....I don't know. I'm not so sure I'd dismiss his/our desire to carry as paranoia (which I believe pertains more to imagined or perceived threats), but real threats sure do strike fear into you.
With all due respect to others opinions; guns on the trail bla bla bla, knives bla bla bla, to get back to the original question: at times an intervention is necessary as the life you save may be theirs, yours or another’s. To live in fear of the confrontation is one thing to live in guilt as the person who did nothing is another story, as i said in this thread earlier it creates a tense couple of seconds. How you approach the situation, person and or persons may and can affect the outcome, be positive, show concern for THEM, and be considerate as most but not all of the of the time it will be a positive outcome. The confrontation can be tough, if it gets out of hand you as the clear headed individual can and should walk away but at least you tried. In the case of the Friday night that i helped that person it was tough for a second or two but when he got in my warm truck, music on and relaxed in the passenger seat he was as happy as he could be! It may have cost me $10.00 in diesel fuel and him a little joking from his friends in the morning but the outcome no matter how you look at it was great! Look at the Snowmobile Fatality reports for Wisconsin and Michigan my guess is 75% of them had a positive BAC, would a intervention have saved possibly any of these lives? I am sure at least some could have been saved, look at the other lives that would have been effected by an intervention in any of these accidents, children, wife’s, sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers, the list goes on and on and so does the sadness. So to end my rant do anything you can, intervene directly, make a call, ask the bartender to call, pull the tether cord, do SOMETHING! To walk away because you are afraid of the confrontation, harassment, embarrassment, whatever is not an excuse. Living with the fact that you did nothing and somebody was injured or died and all the lives that were affected because of your decision will haunt YOU for the rest of YOUR life. If you ask any of the victims of the accidents that took their loved ones i bet they wish you would have................
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Grant Hoar
New member
yooperrev,
great common sense response. Thanks for getting this back to the original topic
great common sense response. Thanks for getting this back to the original topic
xsledder
Active member
russholio, with all due respect, I have never said, on this thread, that someone doesn't have the right to carry (In fact I have said the opposite). I said "I" have NEVER come across a need to carry on a snowmobile. But I have never said you can't carry. And I don't give a rip about what you are taught in your CPL course. Your only human and misuse can and will happen. (Look at some of the police shootings.) When I asked people who carried to give me a situation that they felt they needed a gun, I pointed out how it still doesn't give them security. If it gives you a sense of security, fine, be it, carry; but it won't protect you 100% of the time.
Now, I'm not responding to win this debate because I see as a conversation and not an argument; but no one has given me an example where they would use it, be justified, and could win 100% of the time given all variables. That is why I walk away, my odds of survival increase. I have been in a few situations, one life-threatening where the other person had a weapon, and this has worked.
chevy's incident was horrible and I would not want to be in it; but a gun won't stop the next one and might or might not change the outcome.
Back to the original thread. Grant, I don't know what we could have done. I gave them directions down less traveled trails. We weren't at a bar with a car to give them a ride. We didn't have good cell phone coverage to call the sheriff's office and how would we know if they even followed my directions. And the 3 to 1 odds were not in our favor so taking the flask away wasn't an option. I played the situation in my head a few times and nothing works except nothing.
Now, I'm not responding to win this debate because I see as a conversation and not an argument; but no one has given me an example where they would use it, be justified, and could win 100% of the time given all variables. That is why I walk away, my odds of survival increase. I have been in a few situations, one life-threatening where the other person had a weapon, and this has worked.
chevy's incident was horrible and I would not want to be in it; but a gun won't stop the next one and might or might not change the outcome.
Back to the original thread. Grant, I don't know what we could have done. I gave them directions down less traveled trails. We weren't at a bar with a car to give them a ride. We didn't have good cell phone coverage to call the sheriff's office and how would we know if they even followed my directions. And the 3 to 1 odds were not in our favor so taking the flask away wasn't an option. I played the situation in my head a few times and nothing works except nothing.
Here is a thought on what to do about the drinking sledders, just lie a little... Kindly point out that you have another group of sledders coming up the trail 5-10 miles back? & that you are waiting for them, & also mention there are some kids in that group, so just give them a little heads up... they don't need to know it's not true but it may get them to think about the probability that they will meet a group of sledders soon ( with kids )
Grant Hoar
New member
Oly,
I like it. Maybe also a little white lie that they should slow down because there was an officer at a crossing a little ways up the trail. A combination of minor things that might get them to use more common sense.
I like it. Maybe also a little white lie that they should slow down because there was an officer at a crossing a little ways up the trail. A combination of minor things that might get them to use more common sense.