SnowTech Editorial Scary Snowmobiling Future

[Highflyer]

I gather the issue's with some clubs not modernizing as so many younger folks seem to need them too
but it doesn;'t change the fact, if your using the trails, and come on, YOU know there are clubs that do so much work on the trails every yr
in today's modern age of information, I cannot see how ANY honest snowmobiler, can say they DON"T know a club works trails where they ride!
a club shouldn't have top chase down members
if you ride there JOIN, your using them and not giving anything back
spending $$ at local business;'s is great, but that doesn't help the clubs! nor the sport
as again, clubs are what stand up for our rights to keep trails open , there MEMBERS do work that others DON"T do, or maybe even know about due to NOT being a club member!

and to be honest, I honestly DON"T know of any club these days that is NOT on Face book!
so, excuses about them not being on line, is sort of BS , if you ask me!

and also, JOINING a club, normally gets you on the clubs email list, to get notices of work weekends, and club events,
so when your NOT a club member, your the one NOT helping the sport!, old member's or not
the problem simply is, few join clubs , and even fewer actually do anything in or with the club!

they just have excuses why they DON"T belong, which show how little so many actually care about the sport! IMO!
talk is cheap as they say!
and by the way, many clubs, offer members discounted state registration fee's, which can SAVE a person some $$ !!
its almost like joining the club for free
but on PAPER it shows how many people are involved in the sport, so when times come to stand up for trail systems, there is DATA showing there is a large population of members that support the trails!

I believe your in the UP....the UP of Michigan is so different then Northern Wisconsin. In the UP it doesn't seem the clubs are filled with the local business owners like it is in Wisconsin. In Wisconsin, sure joining a club is great, but I feel like you can help out in so many ways that are better then paying club dues annual.

I will still say, I never see people promoting joining a club in my area of Wisconsin. In fact, I've never been asked once to join a club in my area and have been riding there for over 20 years.

 

[Highflyer]

could you imagine what younger folks today would do without the internet??
or maybe I should say, can you imagine how NOTHING would get done without apparently!!
its got to be amazing to them, that all these clubs and trails and what not's all happened just fine before the world wide web came about!
it just took people willing to WORK at something to create it and maintain it
WORK
something I gather so few want to do anymore
seems if you cannot push a button or look on a screen,. nothing can be done anymore!! HAHA!~

The irony of you being on the internet saying young people wouldn't survive without it is funny. This is the same argument every year. The old crew thinks everything will fall apart when the younger generations takes it over.

 

[Highflyer]

You bring up a great point. What is needed is for younger, tech savvy people to join the clubs and bring them up to speed. I've heard some riders complain that there are trail reports here on John Dee and why are we not putting them on the clubs facebook site? Most of the guys that are in these clubs have full time jobs but still take it upon themselves go out make the trails nice and smooth for the next days riders as volunteers.

I also choose not to belong to Facebook, I know, I am not the norm but that does not bother me, I won't be joining FB anytime soon. If you have any suggestions as how to reach out to these younger people I'm sure the clubs would appreciate them.

I have seen a lot of the clubs promoting themselves on weekends up here in Vilas and Oneida Counties, just log onto to their websites and look at their calendars for events. Again, these are volunteers giving up their weekends to run these events. I speak from experience when we ask them to join they say they already belong to a club or we pick up a few new ones occasionally.

In the end it will take everyone and their ideas to keep this sport alive, not just the clubs.

You don't need to be a Facebook member to see clubs reports on Facebook.

 

[pclark]

You don't need to be a Facebook member to see clubs reports on Facebook.

You need to be a member to post on Facebook.

 

[moose822]

I have been active in many clubs for the past 35+ yrs now, and to be honest, IMIO< folks that DON"T join a club, when there actually using the trails, typically continue to NOT join a club when they retire! and just use things for free, letting others do the work !

and honestly, I don't know why you don;'t join a club NOW< if your using the trails.
your using the benefits, but not contributing to things!~
and this mind set of using things for free is a big problem with today's generations of folks that feel entitled to things for nothing! and IMO is leading to the end of a lot of things!


As just joining a club, shows support, adds SOME income to things, shows the state and government that there is a population of people wanting trails, to give them reasons to keep them open!

the small cost of a membership is trivial to the cost of owning a sled
even if you DON"T have the time to physically help out, just being a member means something in many ways!
every one using trails should be a member of a snowmobile club or even a few if you ride many places!!

and yes the future of this sport is very much in trouble, with so few willing to do physical labor anymore!
too much free stuff being giving to folks, its lost a work ethic in so many IMO!
just My 2 cents

Sorry MRBB you must have misread my post. I am actually a member of my local club in Illinois as well as clubs in Wisconsin and Minnesota. I think I even joined a club in the UP last year as well. I do go out and pound stakes and pull stakes when I can but it is usually a last minute project and I often times am not available.

 

[Highflyer]

You need to be a member to post on Facebook.

I was just saying non facebook members can see clubs reports/post.

 

[mrbb]

I believe your in the UP....the UP of Michigan is so different then Northern Wisconsin. In the UP it doesn't seem the clubs are filled with the local business owners like it is in Wisconsin. In Wisconsin, sure joining a club is great, but I feel like you can help out in so many ways that are better then paying club dues annual.

I will still say, I never see people promoting joining a club in my area of Wisconsin. In fact, I've never been asked once to join a club in my area and have been riding there for over 20 years.

I am not in the UP or MI at all!

and a CLUB shouldn;t HAVE to ask anyone to join, its simply being a person using the benefits and adding something to the game
your using the trails for over 20 yrs, but have Not added an ounce of help to any club that takes care of and stands up for the trails you use!
its m,ind sets like this that will be the end of the sport
as , again one should not have to be asked to help out a sport they like , love or enjoy, or use the trails that are MADE possible by clubs and its members!
I am sure you KNOW there are clubs, , and you know the work they do to keep trails open, yet you DON"T join them!
that's rather sad and ignorant IMO at the same time!
this is the modern world, every rider should know about clubs these days, there is NO excuse to NOT know there out there, HOW to join them and what they do to keep this sport alive
and HOW to join them, without someone from a club having to hold your hand and extend a special invite to anyone!
there open to the public
, its pretty simple, if you ride someplace often and use the trails, JOIN the clubs that maintain them! be a supporting part of the sport!

I am sure you and others like you, spend plenty of $$ on lots of trivial things and think nothing about it, yet when the time comes to support something you enjoy and partake in, , its just sad, that so many DON"T belong to a club, and have respect for those that work hard to keep the trails open, as NOT supporting a club by being a member is, just being a user and not a contributor and this will eventually end this sport,
as the Older members that do the work, stand up for the sport, work with local and federal agencies, die off, and no one replaces them!
all the excuses as to WHY someone Didn't join or support a club by being a member , will be falling on deaf ears!

 

[mrbb]

Sorry MRBB you must have misread my post. I am actually a member of my local club in Illinois as well as clubs in Wisconsin and Minnesota. I think I even joined a club in the UP last year as well. I do go out and pound stakes and pull stakes when I can but it is usually a last minute project and I often times am not available.

yes I did and my apologize to using you as a base for a grip about folks that ride trails yet are not club members
as there are way too many out there that just use the trails but don;t put anything back to the clubs that care for them!

 

[Highflyer]

I am not in the UP or MI at all!

and a CLUB shouldn;t HAVE to ask anyone to join, its simply being a person using the benefits and adding something to the game
your using the trails for over 20 yrs, but have Not added an ounce of help to any club that takes care of and stands up for the trails you use!
its m,ind sets like this that will be the end of the sport
as , again one should not have to be asked to help out a sport they like , love or enjoy, or use the trails that are MADE possible by clubs and its members!
I am sure you KNOW there are clubs, , and you know the work they do to keep trails open, yet you DON"T join them!
that's rather sad and ignorant IMO at the same time!
this is the modern world, every rider should know about clubs these days, there is NO excuse to NOT know there out there, HOW to join them and what they do to keep this sport alive
and HOW to join them, without someone from a club having to hold your hand and extend a special invite to anyone!
there open to the public
, its pretty simple, if you ride someplace often and use the trails, JOIN the clubs that maintain them! be a supporting part of the sport!

I am sure you and others like you, spend plenty of $$ on lots of trivial things and think nothing about it, yet when the time comes to support something you enjoy and partake in, , its just sad, that so many DON"T belong to a club, and have respect for those that work hard to keep the trails open, as NOT supporting a club by being a member is, just being a user and not a contributor and this will eventually end this sport,
as the Older members that do the work, stand up for the sport, work with local and federal agencies, die off, and no one replaces them!
all the excuses as to WHY someone Didn't join or support a club by being a member , will be falling on deaf ears!

I can see why nobody wants to join your club. Your mentality that you shouldn't have to recruit people is your problem.

I am a club member myself and honestly see little benefit from it but I always do it because I ride the same area. I see a bigger benefit of supporting the businesses that do a lot for the clubs in my area. If things are thriving for them they will continue to do the heavy lifting as they are full time resident there.

The argument for this non club members I see if they already pay for registration and trail pass why do they need to fork over another $25 for club membership. This is a problem especially in Wisconsin where residents need a trail pass as well on top of registration.

 

[mrbb]

I can see why nobody wants to join your club. Your mentality that you shouldn't have to recruit people is your problem.

I am a club member myself and honestly see little benefit from it but I always do it because I ride the same area. I see a bigger benefit of supporting the businesses that do a lot for the clubs in my area. If things are thriving for them they will continue to do the heavy lifting as they are full time resident there.

The argument for this non club members I see if they already pay for registration and trail pass why do they need to fork over another $25 for club membership. This is a problem especially in Wisconsin where residents need a trail pass as well on top of registration.

well I been well liked at the clubs I have been part of, and have recruited many many members over the yrs
how about you??
and as for why should anyone PAY a club 25 bucks a yr, well cause real simple, the clubs do MOST of the work, local business DON"T do!
when there are new regulations and trail closures, its CLUBS that stand up for ALL snowmobiles,, they take on the challenges of keeping trails open , be it working with land owners or the government agencies!

Also, its STATS provided by clubs that show how many are active in the sport!

its the CLUBS and there members < that have to go and TRY and save a trail when some jerk runs onto private property and or a closed section of land
which is normally done by NON club members!
local business's again DON"T do this stuff,(unless club members themselves which many are) and this stuff is what keeps this sport alive,
not buying food and drinks in a location(yes that sure helps)
but it doesn;t get any grooming done, makers , trail sings, working to keep land owners happy
yes some businesses do support the clubs and even land owners, but without the clubs to be there to see these things happen, they wouldn;t and a such, this sport would DIE

SO< go ahead cry about paying an extra 25 bucks, and DON"T support a club , be a user and and not supporter,
entitlement is sarcastically a wonderful thing, so many folks have today!!~

 

[wiscrev]

We don't pay any more or any less in Wisconsin for a trail permit. For instance, if you do not belong to a club the trail permit is $50. If you belong to a club, say $25-40 buck, the trail permit is only $10. It is still a huge benefit to belong to a club. If you don't belong to a club, don't complain. It's just like voting, If you don't/didn't vote, don't complain about who is in office.

 

[goofy600]

I can see why nobody wants to join your club. Your mentality that you shouldn't have to recruit people is your problem.

I am a club member myself and honestly see little benefit from it but I always do it because I ride the same area. I see a bigger benefit of supporting the businesses that do a lot for the clubs in my area. If things are thriving for them they will continue to do the heavy lifting as they are full time resident there.

The argument for this non club members I see if they already pay for registration and trail pass why do they need to fork over another $25 for club membership. This is a problem especially in Wisconsin where residents need a trail pass as well on top of registration.

So you don’t see much benefit in joining a club, well who would do the work then? The bar owners or the resort owners, oh wait the have to kiss there patrons backsides so they will give them some tip money and maybe come back the there place of business again. The area that the club I belong to has 3 bars one cafe 4 resorts and 1 casino/ hotel and yes they donate money one of the bar owners does a great job for membership and one resort does a lot for the sport and even more for the atv club but that is about it. So if my club relied on local businesses to maintain our trails they would be garbage.

 

[pclark]

I think we can all agree that looking at a map which is provided by the club for their area that most trails go from business to business, meaning Bars, Resturants, gas stations, ETC. Having spent time on the map committee for our club the businesses are not calling the clubs to be on the map, its the other way around. Club members volunteer their time to call on these businesses and sell ad space on the maps to pay for the map. That is a lot of work as I remember it, visiting the bars, businesses, trying to get the commitments and the check$$ for the ad, sometimes having to go back numerous times, the clubs don't pay for gas money, we did it for the club. So if you don't like going to club meetings then get involved in all the other areas where they need people, I personally found trail work, grooming, relationships with landowners, selling ad space on the maps, teaching snowmobile education classes much more enjoyable than attending meetings but that's just me. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of business owners that belong to the clubs and do a lot as well like have meetings, fundraisers, etc at their establishments but it wouldn't happen without the clubs who own the groomers/maintain them, maintain the trails, insure the land, get the maps printed and out by season opener, etc.

 

[G]

In MN we basically sold our souls to the MnDNR back in the 80s. We were private grooming before then. In exchange for the DNR paying to run the groomer the DNR makes all the rules. Right now if the MN DNR decided that they were not going to fund grooming for any reason they may pull out their rectum snowmobiling in MN would be over. Instantly. That is a much more likely scenario than club/no club old guy/young guy squabble. Don't bother with the argument that part of your club dues go for lobbiests. Big whoopee. The DNR is going to do what the DNR is going to do. Because they can. And some day they will need money to save the albino pelican population and boom. Over. Just like that. Stranger things have happened.

 

[blkhwkbob]

I guess I have a different take on it. I am 42 and looking to retire at or before 50. Once I retire I want to pursue all the things that I don't have time for today. One of those is becoming very involved in a snowmobile club. Since I have been a club member it has almost always been retired guys who have done the heavy lifting of the club. I think (hope anyway) that the next generation of retired guys will do the same. I think they will...I will be one of them anyway.

How the heck are you going to retire before 50? You must be a cop.

 

[katden4]

For the ones who don't want to be part of a club, I think you should at least join for one year, and if not attend meetings at least read the minutes from the meetings. You will be enlightened on how much work a club does all season long. So if you think your trail permit money covers your use of the trail, you are sadly mistaken by lack of information. I actually enjoy the work on the trails. Not all do, but it gets me out in the woods with a great bunch of people who all love the sport.

 

[elf]

I don't see younger upcoming kids doing anything much less sledding

Boy, I'd sure like to disagree with you on this one. As much as I complain about my two kids from time to time they are both hardworking and chasing their dreams. My daughter just graduated college with a math major, IS minor and working in NYC as a Data Scientist/consultant who can't wait to come home for X-mas so she can go to the cabin and go snowmobiling. My son is working road construction and going to school in Montana so he can chase his dreams of snowmobiling the west.

And most of my kids friends are hardworking kids. What they do may not always be what you or I consider the proper career route but I've learned to be a little more tolerant. While my daughter followed what I considered the correct plan (I'm biased because it's basically the plan I followed) my son is going a different route but one that is working for him.

So that's just my feedback on youth in general right now. I admit there's bad ones out there but there's also a lot of my people my age that don't want to do anything either.

 

[mezz]

I will say this, you don't have to belong to a club in order to help. I have taken part in brushing & signing without being a club member, you just have to care enough about the sport & the area(s) you ride & lend a helping hand. We simply don't have enough people involved, members or non-members.

 

[mrbb]

I will say this, you don't have to belong to a club in order to help. I have taken part in brushing & signing without being a club member, you just have to care enough about the sport & the area(s) you ride & lend a helping hand. We simply don't have enough people involved, members or non-members.

I agree I have also tagged along on many trail work weekends of clubs work I didn;t belong too

but in today's sad world of legal troubles, many times you must be part of a club to even be on lands (say lands not owned by the state or public)
for liability reasons, most clubs have some sort of insurance that covers them and its members at times when on others property! , which tends to make land owners more relaxed about folks being on there lands!
So, some time's when on private property, you sort of need to be a member to be on the lands doping the work, in case anything bad happens(accident or likes) or the land owners wants to know who you are and why your there!

Bu agree there are many things a NON member can surely do to help keep this port alive if they wanted to,
but doubt many will or do on there own!
SO, joining a club, tends to be the best way to get folks involved IMO< as so many just don;t have the drive to do things themselves, and legally its not sometimes so easy to do alone either!

 

[moose822]

How the heck are you going to retire before 50? You must be a cop.

I am in engineer and I own several rental properties. Have no debt and am somewhat good with my money. When I say i am going to retire I really mean that I am going to stop working for someone else. I would walk away today but I want to get a business up and moving first. I haven't totally figured out the health insurance part but I could get it through my wifes employeer if all else fails.

For the record I don't have the cajones to be a cop, I am glad some people do and they deserve every bit of that early retirement.